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I want BG2 romances as guidelines how to do romances (except Anomen, his could... be improved :) ) in PE.

 

I with Boo on this one, as for endings, i think a happy & a sad ending should be avaiable, failing that, have only a "neutral ending" with your guy living out a average life with his/her love interest, with its ups & downs. Not every relationship ends in tragedy and not every one ends in a supah dupah "happily ever after" kind of way.

 

Upon reflection, Jaheira's ending, if i remember correctly was pretty much what i said above, just to ilustrate.

Every relationship penned by MCA ends in tragedy, so brace yourself for some greek ****.

 

Well, i havent played P:T but what other kind of examples can you give me? i know for a fact that IWD doesnt have romances and the FO2 one is more as a comedy than anything (still, it doesnt ends in tragedy).

 

Greek ****? i hope you dont mean Oedipus kind of **** :blink:

Edited by BR4ZIL
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It would be hilarious if they just let you romance the Adventurer's Hall characters, with one gender neutral romance dialogue tree. Everybody's happy! And by everybody I mean no one.

Oh, I think the anti romance crowd would be pretty happy. Schadenfreude and all that.

 

 

 

 

Well, i havent played P:T but what other kind of examples can you give me? i know for a fact that IWD doesnt have romances and the FO2 one is more as a comedy than anything (still, it doesnt ends in tragedy).

I was being a bit facetious, but there is an interview with MCA where he claims that the only romances that he likes to write are the tragic ones and since this is a publisher interference free project I assume he will write what he likes.

Edited by evdk

Say no to popamole!

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I was being a bit facetious, but there is an interview with MCA where he claims that the only romances that he likes to write are the tragic ones and since this is a publisher interference free project I assume he will write what he likes.

 

Guess i should wish for a Miria/Davin thing then, at least it will be funny!

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It would be hilarious if they just let you romance the Adventurer's Hall characters, with one gender neutral romance dialogue tree. Everybody's happy! And by everybody I mean no one.

Oh, I think the anti romance crowd would be pretty happy. Schadenfreude and all that.

 

 

 

 

Well, i havent played P:T but what other kind of examples can you give me? i know for a fact that IWD doesnt have romances and the FO2 one is more as a comedy than anything (still, it doesnt ends in tragedy).

I was being a bit facetious, but there is an interview with MCA where he claims that the only romances that he likes to write are the tragic ones and since this is a publisher interference free project I assume he will write what he likes.

I don't remember the exact quote, but it was sort of implied that it was part of stuff that he "hates", so he likes to do violence on the conventions of the subject. Which is why I don't worry too much about it being filled with the sappy stuff or the instant gratification stuff. Oedipus sounds exactly like the kind of story that would flow from MCA's pen ;)

 

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Personally I'd like the most if it was like New Vegas and just have no player-centric romances, I'd much rather have just have a team full of best bros. Because even Planescape felt awkward with its romance because Annah acted like my NO was leading her on the whole time and thought Grace was competition for NO's affections or something even though he explicitly stated that he only saw her and Grace as friends. (Being friends with Grace was all good though, she was my favorite character because of it.)

 

Not to say I doubt Obsidian's skill at doing a good job at a possible player romance and it would be nice to see a well done one, but all the creepy fan stuff that it usually entails just makes me jaded to the idea.

Edited by Zap Rowsdower
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--what type of romance plot do you enjoy (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?

This one really depends on the character(s) involved. It should be something that fits with their personality, but not something so "cut and dried" as to be completely predictable. Also, it should not be something that makes or breaks a game if one chooses to ignore it in entirety, or makes the "wrong" choice. Basically, it should be added "spice" that allows for greater character/plot/background development and brings a larger emotional attachment to the character(s) involved in the romance, but should not be mechanically "crippling" nor "essential" for progress (unless of course the game is specifically ABOUT said romance, but that doesn't apply to P:E)

 

--are there particular game mechanics that you like to see when romances are included (complex questlines, cutscenes?)?

Due to the reasons listed above, I enjoy seeing ADDITIONAL quests/dialogue/etc and cutscenes can certainly be used to flesh-out these aspects and/or to bring deeper emotional context...but they should not be tied in as requirements or "large" effects on any "mainline" quests.

 

--what romances or relationship plots from other games did you enjoy that can serve as examples?

Pretty much the way things were handled in PS:T was ideal in approach, both with the Annah/FFG in-party and the Ravel/Deionarra aspects, though I think it could have been fleshed out more in the end. Wouldn't have minded seeing some "romance-specific" side-quests, not counting the encounter with Ravel, though I did approve of the Annah/FFG aspects of the encounter with Ravel: even though they were part of the "main" quest, they were neither critical nor crippling aspects of it. However, there did definitely seem to be a bit of an "unfinished" feel to the romantic side of things even at the end, and very little "concrete" progress. (And no, I don't mean because there was no steamy bedroom scene...)

 

--What, even, is romance?

In my eyes, some way of generating a feeling in the player of a deeper commitment between two or more characters that goes beyond them being adventuring companions and/or "buddies" which includes some sort of non-platonic aspect to it. Just as there are endless variations on 'romantic partnerships' in the real world, I don't think there should be any qualifications on what makes something a "proper" relationship in a video game either, other than bringing out the same sorts of emotional reactions and attachments - both between the character(s) themselves and from the player towards the character(s). The former allows for deeper character development and depth of plot, the latter makes a more emotionally stirring experience when playing and should be more than just what is "best" in terms of game mechanics...

"If we are alone in the universe, it sure seems like an awful waste of space"

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I see romances as a way to explore different dimensions of a companion's personality that the player wouldn't otherwise discover through normal adventuring. Romances shouldn't exist just for mushy dialogue and naughty cutscenes; they should add to the story and give a companion depth.

 

All types of romance can be good, so long as they go beyond "I like you PLAYER1, let's make babies and be happy/sad/angry together!"

Edited by Sykid
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I want my character spurned at every advance. I want him to contract syphilis and die a gibbering fool, I want my character to be drowning his sorrows, alone in a tavern, lamenting why every person he ever loved died as a result of their association with him.

 

It's gonna be awesome.

 

So in other words - PS:T with mortality ;)

"If we are alone in the universe, it sure seems like an awful waste of space"

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--what type of romance plot do you enjoy (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?

I love antagonistic relationships or rivalries. Fighting, insulting, and trying to one up each other in battles only to eventually admit a grudging respect and even later love makes for a way more interesting character dynamic than getting along and telling each other how great they are. It also could easily be written for both a romantic arc or friendship arc, since actually admitting affection would come fairly late in the game.

 

--are there particular game mechanics that you like to see when romances are included (complex questlines, cutscenes?)?

I really liked how in KotOR2 and NWN2 you always had two characters directly opposed to each other in terms of their relationship to the PC. Even if it wasn't romantic interest, like Sand vs. Qara, you could only win over one of them in the end. It was a sobering experience to know not everyone was going to like you no matter what you do.

 

--what romances or relationship plots from other games did you enjoy that can serve as examples?

Though I wish it had been actually finished, I really liked Atton in KotOR2. A lot of his romance was him just sticking his neck out for the Exile or musing to other characters about a potential relationship, and he never actually admits to any feelings to the PC directly. It was bittersweet, but not over the top.

 

--What, even, is romance?

Mutual interest between characters is enough. Sex isn't necessary in the game, dating and marriage isn't necessary. Just a character that is a little more focused on the PC than the other party members.

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--what type of romance plot do you enjoy (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?

 

Any and all that are well written. I personally think it's far too easy, almost a cop-out, to write the tragic romance. Just like writing dark stories, anti-heroes, shades of gray (both interpretations)... while writing an interesting and compelling happy romance is very hard without it being saccharine.

 

One that entertains me more than others is quite cliche. The love triangle, with the guy's best friend ending up being the girl he winds up with, even though she helps (or hinders?) his attempts to get together with a different girl.

 

Yes, I love John Hughes movies. :p

 

--are there particular game mechanics that you like to see when romances are included (complex questlines, cutscenes?)?

 

For a game, assuming that the question implies a player character romancing another character (companion or no) - I like to see it build over time, over many interactions, with potential missteps along the way.

 

I'd rather there wasn't a formula applied - you make your main character, you recruit companions, X number of companions are romanceable, you have to fulfill three dialog objectives, do one side quest, and make the right game story choice to be rewarded with relationship! THAT'S artificial. That's gamification of relationships.

 

I want it to happen as part of the narrative, even aside the narrative, but without a "win" scenario.

 

--what romances or relationship plots from other games did you enjoy that can serve as examples?

 

I love the Raynor / Kerrigan relationship in Starcraft. This one might be a little odd, but I also find really moving the relationship that Master Chief and Cortana had in Halo. I also really enjoyed the Mona and Max Payne relatioship in Max Payne 2. For quirkiness, there's the York and Emily romance in Deadly Premonition. And here's one that'll just come across as creepy because people are going to misinterpret the meaning, but the Ray / Lucy relationship in Blade Runner was really well done (in a similar way to the Mike / Sis one in AP.) Finally, for a well written character solely motivated by love, Alan Wake is a great game.

 

For role-playing games in particular, I liked the romance with Tali in Mass Effect and the romance with Bastila in KotOR. I think Alistair was well written as well, and my first DA:O play I was a female city elf who was romancing him but then watched him leave to go off and get drunk when I chose to spare Loghain and put Anora on the throne.... so the romance with Alistair was good while still being in a pretty gamey set-up and part of the horrible diaper sex. I really enjoyed all the "relationships" in Alpha Protocol, I thought they were really well done. Final Fantasy 6 (especially the opera scene), Final Fantasy 7 - and I always assumed 8 (though I never played it, I believe it has a great romance.) I cannot remember her name, but there's the daughter in the big family in ToEE whom you can chat with and even marry I believe - that was very fun and satisfying.

 

 

--What, even, is romance?

 

Well, in this context it's not heroic literature... it's love. In a game it's playing through, or watching/reading the development of, feelings between characters. This can take so many varied forms, from glances to flirting to one night stands to marriage. It can be unrequited, it can be unfulfilled, it can even be unacknowledged.

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Personally I enjoyed the Baldur's gate II Romances. I would like to see deeper, more in depth options, done in this style. My only problem with them is the scale of time in the game in relation to the time it takes to actually develop the romance, it always feels really off.

 

A good way to deal with that issue is to simply have time skips in the game, that way it is assumed you have at least developed more of a friendship... they did this in Dragon Age II but over all the less said about that game the better.

 

More things like side quest and character events would be very welcome and would add a great deal of depth to the potential romance options. Good examples of this actually come from the BGII Modding community with the Tashia, Saerilith and Amber mods. If we could get things along those lines than I think we would have very enjoyable and compelling romances. A good variety would be nice as well, 3 male options and 3 female options, or something along those lines. The four total options in BG2 or the DA games left a lot to be desired.

 

In any companion based RPG, the options of romance should be available. If done well a good romance adds depth to the main character, adds depth to the companions, can add depth to the story and even add depth to the world itself.

Edited by Nkemp756
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i just wanna marry my char to a lich girl, 2 prove 2 all the h8rs that this is moar about Luhv than just wild seks :skull::wub:

 

Now I'm thinking about Larians new game, Dragon Commander. Where I remember seeing a video where you can marry a skeleton, to get the undead faction on your side.

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If they do romance, they should do it well. Don't make much content "romance exclusive" or make romances boring fanservice. Essentially, don't do them like (modern) Bioware would do them.

Edited by KaineParker

“By striving to do the impossible, man has always achieved what is possible. Those who have cautiously done no more than they believed possible have never taken a single step forward.” ― Mikhail Bakunin

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So not going to read all the posts even though I really want too. In reply to the OP

 

What type of romance plot do you enjoy (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?

-A well written one, preferably with pathing that allows for multiple types of plot.

 

Are there particular game mechanics that you like to see when romances are included (complex questlines, cutscenes?)?

-Mechanics that allow for complete trust in combat but dislike in social displays and visa-versa.

-Mechanics that allow for angry sex.

-Mechanics that allow variations in romance dependent upon party members and npcs present.

-Mechanics that allow for NPCs to develop relationships amongst themselves. (Sometimes secretly as a result of on-screen and off-screen interactions.)

-Storyline (Side Questlines) should be backwards and forwards. (Historically finding out about the past and development of the future with regard to relationships whether they be romantic or not.)

-Mechanics that allow for relationships to effect social interactions with NPCs and combat interactions.

 

What romances or relationship plots from other games books did you enjoy that can serve as examples?

Right now I can only think of the relationships within two books series, A Song of Ice and Fire and Crown of Stars. Both have excellent examples of relationships and their complexities.

 

 

What, even, is romance?

Romance is...pssh.

Edited by Aeristal
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Hope this isn't too unpopular but I have found romance in RPGs to be utterly boring and pointless. Everything from the cheesy dialogue to the awkwardly censored sex scenes has been tripe. A tragic love story would be different as one of the main themes but I doubt the plot will be built around that. Please no fan service stuff though, Dragon Age and Mass Effect just went OTT. If there is romance I think it should be limited to very few options so that you don't have every person flirting with you or making subtle hints all the time.

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it did sound completely absurd and taken straight from the deepest pits of BSN, to be honest.

Actually, that pit doesn't exist anymore. Chris Priestly has recently closed the Character and Romance forum on BSN 'cuz it got trolled too much.

 

If they do romance, they should do it well. Don't make much content "romance exclusive" or make romances boring fanservice. Essentially, don't do them like (modern) Bioware would do them.

I know what you mean, the Morinth romance in Mass Effet 3 was hella boring fanservice, they could have done a way better job. All she did was send Shepard an email, turn into a monster, and try to kill him on the last mission. It sucked, I wanted to 'mance her hella bad. Oh well, at least we got to see her naked, how many other LIs from Bioware games can make that claim?

banshee.png?w=497&h=279

Edited by bobobo878
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One recent survey by a Washington-based researcher concluded that Americans were far more willing to participate in cannibalism then they have in the past hundred years. America is a nation that will not suffer abominations lightly.

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Oh God, they have arrived. That didn't take too long.

Like I said, BSN's romance forums are down. Where were we supposed to go, Facebook?

One recent survey by a Washington-based researcher concluded that Americans were far more willing to participate in cannibalism then they have in the past hundred years. America is a nation that will not suffer abominations lightly.

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