Romance and friendship?

[qloher]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes?

I don't care about what they have, or do, in their homes. But there should always be limits in a community, both on-line and off-line. It can't just be "anything goes". There is no totalitarian mindset, it's logic.

And where the line lies is of cause for you to decide, right?

Yes! That's exactly it. I'm the perfect person for this job! That's what I'm saying. You got me right there!

 

You really need to get out.

Well that is a totalitarian mindset in it's finest.

On Nexus you can go to your profile preferences and block all adult content for yourself in two clicks, so there is no way for you to run into it. But even if something has zero contact with you, the very thought of it's existence makes your skin itch.

[Mrakvampire]

some people will be taking zero NPC companions b/c of the adventurer's hall thing.

 

That's why I was strongly against Adventurer's Hall. Adv Hall in the game about deep rpg elements (basically NPCs, their motives, reactions, story, etc.) is just... Wrong.

So people got an OPTION to avoid some content. And now, after they recieved this OPTION they try to reduce our OPTIONS using this Adv Hall as argument??? Great.

 

You greatly greatly dissapointed me. I'll go to my small hamster's house and I'm gonna eat a lot of carrots, just to cheer up.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Mrakvampire

[Hoverdog]

Romance mods for BG2 are the example of what I would never want to see in PE, please stop using them as positive examples, it gives me migraines, thanks.

 

While you might have not enjoyed them (or had experience with really badly written ones) i would point out the NPC expansion for BG1 mod as an excelent example of how party dialogue would be done (its way better than ME's or DA's, IMO) , it gives all NPCs the much needed banter and adds makes few of the characters have a romance option. As a kinda of a BG modder myself (currently doing a NPC mod), i find your statement quite rude, since we dont all make crappy pornographic dialogues ( this is the kind of feeling i got from your statement).

god no. I've recently installed a big modded BGT game, including said NPC expansion. The result? I kicked out Imoen straight after getting to Friendly Arms Inn. She interjected into EVERY. SINGLE. ****ING. dialogue with completely inane babble till that point. Now I'm simply scared of recruiting anyone in fear of more stupid drivel - I'll probably restart in multiplayer with a whole party.

jesus.

[el pinko grande]

Yay. Romance threads are back.

 

My feeling on the matter is this: there is no point having pre-made companion NPCs unless they have fairly deep storylines and complex relationships with the player character. If we are delving into relationships with the companion NPCs, I think it would be really strange if romances weren’t a part of their stories. People pair off, especially people spending months and months tromping through the wilderness in small, mixed sex groups. I can only imagine that the stress of fighting monsters all the time increases that tendency.

 

FWIW, I don’t think there should be sex scenes. I don’t think they add anything, and they’re invariably clunky and ridiculous. Hell, I’m a big fan of DA:O, and even I thought the diaper sex was ridiculous. And if people really really want sex scenes, they can always download a mod to that effect, or else write some fan fiction. Personally, though, I don’t think this game’s engine is going to lend itself to that kind of thing.

Edited October 17, 2012 by el pinko grande

[evdk]

god no. I've recently installed a big modded BGT game, including said NPC expansion. The result? I kicked out Imoen straight after getting to Friendly Arms Inn. She interjected into EVERY. SINGLE. ****ING. dialogue with completely inane babble till that point. Now I'm simply scared of recruiting anyone in fear of more stupid drivel - I'll probably restart in multiplayer with a whole party.

jesus.

I've never played the game any differently. Screw the silly party banter.

[lordgizka]

Games shouldn't give a damn about politics or how they portray their characters in relation to the real world.

So there's some obnoxiously forward bisexual predator in a game. The developers aren't saying: "Yep, this is how all bisexuals behave." They just made a damn character. It's these sensitive folks that perceive insults that are not there and freak out...get over yourself.

 

This concept of fantasy worlds ideally being completely separate from the real world is true and has been true since Tolkien, but some players and developers just refuse to get it. There can literally be anything in this game (yes, even romances) if in the developers' minds it makes sense to happen in their world with their characters. Again, ideally regardless of anything else, especially real world society and culture.

[Mrakvampire]

I've never played the game any differently. Screw the silly party banter.

 

This explains a lot, actually.

[qloher]

I've never played the game any differently. Screw the silly party banter.

 

This explains a lot, actually.

Indeed.

[Hoverdog]

god no. I've recently installed a big modded BGT game, including said NPC expansion. The result? I kicked out Imoen straight after getting to Friendly Arms Inn. She interjected into EVERY. SINGLE. ****ING. dialogue with completely inane babble till that point. Now I'm simply scared of recruiting anyone in fear of more stupid drivel - I'll probably restart in multiplayer with a whole party.

jesus.

I've never played the game any differently. Screw the silly party banter.

After my recent IWD playthroughs I thought It would be a welcomed change.

 

I regret that choice dearly

[Teuthida]

Games shouldn't give a damn about politics or how they portray their characters in relation to the real world.

So there's some obnoxiously forward bisexual predator in a game. The developers aren't saying: "Yep, this is how all bisexuals behave." They just made a damn character. It's these sensitive folks that perceive insults that are not there and freak out...get over yourself.

 

I'm assuming this was directed at me but my goodness there's no need to be so rude

 

Of course the developers are not saying "this is how all bisexuals behave". And a few aggressively flirtatious bi characters in a few games would not be a big deal, but the thing is this is pretty much how all bi characters are being shown in games today, which isn't great. Even if you personally don't object to the content (which is fine and I do understand that it's not a big deal for most hetereosexual people), from a strictly narrative/writing perspective, that character archetype being reused repeatedly is just plain boring. It just makes it a bit different because these characters are also playing into stereotypes in the real world that do exist and are harmful to some people.

 

If me wanting to see more LGBT people portrayed in a realistic/positive light makes me "sensitive" then yes I am a giant sensitive child and I see no problems there

[Ieo]

I want romances, some don't. I don't care for some things, others do. A romance in these games should be a deeper, more personal exploration of a companion's character and how their way of interacting with you is altered by their feelings. More replayability and variety.

 

"Romance" is not the deepest exploration of someone's character. Ever wonder why plenty of married people have a spouse to whom they're romantic and yet have a different best friend? "Romance" does not have specific intrinsic value above other elements of emotive expression to create a deeper relationship with someone, fictional or not.

 

This is certainly one of the fallacious concepts I strongly disagree with, and I suppose I can blame it somewhat upon the rise of social networking and all these younger people completely failing to understand that a proper "friendship" is more than a number on Facebook.

[Hoverdog]

I've never played the game any differently. Screw the silly party banter.

 

This explains a lot, actually.

indeed, it shows he couldn't stand poor graphomania. the horror!

[Brannart]

some people will be taking zero NPC companions b/c of the adventurer's hall thing.

 

That's why I was strongly against Adventurer's Hall. Adv Hall in the game about deep rpg elements (basically NPCs, their motives, reactions, story, etc.) is just... Wrong.

So people got an OPTION to avoid some content. And now, after they recieved this OPTION they try to reduce our OPTIONS using this Adv Hall as argument??? Great.

 

You greatly greatly dissapointed me. I'll go to my small hamster's house and I'm gonna eat a lot of carrots, just to cheer up.

 

I will probably never use the Adv Hall just FYI unless I decide for some reason my character has a twin or is adventuring with his/her spouse or whatever. I was just stating romances are showing this tendency to dominate games and especially when somebody might have no NPCs they should be treated carefully.

[kenup]

If someone is fapping to pixel art, it isn't a big deal.

 

If someone likes Mass Effect 3, it isn't a big deal.

 

If someone thinks Bioware is still awesome, it isn't a big deal.

Except I never cared about any of these. Just make a separate porn(dot)nexusmods(dot)com, Do not allow any nudity and porn in the other sites and it's done. As I said the problem is that almost every file on nexus will have a nude+ pic. And because sometimes the modders themselves use nude mods on their screens, even mods that have nothing to do with that will be flagged as adult. Or not and it's still going to have that imature nude H cup pic.

Edited October 17, 2012 by kenup

[Brannart]

Games shouldn't give a damn about politics or how they portray their characters in relation to the real world.

So there's some obnoxiously forward bisexual predator in a game. The developers aren't saying: "Yep, this is how all bisexuals behave." They just made a damn character. It's these sensitive folks that perceive insults that are not there and freak out...get over yourself.

 

I'm assuming this was directed at me but my goodness there's no need to be so rude

 

Of course the developers are not saying "this is how all bisexuals behave". And a few aggressively flirtatious bi characters in a few games would not be a big deal, but the thing is this is pretty much how all bi characters are being shown in games today, which isn't great. Even if you personally don't object to the content (which is fine and I do understand that it's not a big deal for most hetereosexual people), from a strictly narrative/writing perspective, that character archetype being reused repeatedly is just plain boring. It just makes it a bit different because these characters are also playing into stereotypes in the real world that do exist and are harmful to some people.

 

If me wanting to see more LGBT people portrayed in a realistic/positive light makes me "sensitive" then yes I am a giant sensitive child and I see no problems there

 

I guess I disagree that Zevran was this horrible character who advanced any stereotypes that had any social or political harm. But if romances are this social-poltical thing that cause real world harm well that might be another reason why perhaps Obsidian should consider limiting their impact on the game.

[evdk]

I've never played the game any differently. Screw the silly party banter.

 

This explains a lot, actually.

It explains how I was able to finish the game without suffering permanent brain damage, certainly.

[Tanner]

Even if I'm not really enthusiastic about romances, I accept that people might expect something different.

 

I found "romantic" content in the so-called modern cRPG like DA highly artificial, as if the writers had to write it because they had to do but not really wanting it, making it without skill and passion. If romances are in the game, I'd prefer that they are mature (but not in the sense of having poor written/designed sex scenes, which I would rather called laziness and lack of imagination, but mature and deep in the writing). And I don't care very much about straight/gay romances, as long the writing is good, interesting and believable.

 

If the Obsidian guys decide to write such content, it's fine with me, as long as I can avoid it, and that NPCs still feel lively. What matters to me is that it's well-written, and with imagination. In other words, much better written than DA:O and 99% of fanmade mods.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Tanner

[Tale]

Settle down, everyone. Don't get personal.

[Rosveen]

Games shouldn't give a damn about politics or how they portray their characters in relation to the real world.

So there's some obnoxiously forward bisexual predator in a game. The developers aren't saying: "Yep, this is how all bisexuals behave." They just made a damn character. It's these sensitive folks that perceive insults that are not there and freak out...get over yourself.

For some reason the majority of bisexual characters are rogues, while kights in shining armor are always straight. Coincidence?

 

Making all characters bisexual just so every player can romance anyone is a bad design decision (see Dragon Age 2 - romance in this game was absolutely awful, and I'm saying this as a homosexual). I cringe whenever I see bisexual NPCs whose only function is to appease the LGBT crowd. I don't want to be appeased, all I want is one or two well-written characters who happen to be gay.

 

Think about Fallout's Arcade Gannon and Veronica - this is how gay characters should be portrayed. Their sexuality is mentioned casually and is just a fraction of who they are. Of course this is impossible to do with romanceable characters whose sexuality is, by definition, clearly stated - but I'd love to see that it is an integral part of a character's design, not just something the devs threw in at the last minute because of political correctness.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Rosveen

[HeedlessHorseman]

I guess that I just take video games less seriously than other people here. So, I think it would be funny if the game had awfully cheesy romance lines. Like: "Will you help me sheath my sword?"

[Jasede]

I wouldn't worry, Obsidian and especially MCA aren't exactly known for their tolerance for the horrid, disgusting harem simulator that a few may be clamoring for so desperately. That doesn't mean we should show any pity to them, though. It needs to be clear that shallow, inane romances that lead only to personal gratification aren't tolerated and no resources ought to be diverted to such a shallow pursuit.

 

Which leads me to another question: Why keep asking for romances when the stance has already been made clear multiple times? It's apparent the "let's romance the entire party so we can fade to black and play some moaning SFX" thing isn't happening. This doesn't preclude the tasteful and well-written theme of love that's so prevalent in the works of Obsidian and MCA, even though it needs to be said that that's far more than simple carnal gratifying love. Much rather, they tackle themes such as the love to one's home, to one's brother, to one's friends, to one's worlds, to one's god's, and, yes, romantic love, but always subservient to the greater narrative and coherence of the world.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Jasede

[kabaliero]

Gosh, this thread is still flaming. (oh, that'th crazhy)

 

I remember joining some random BG sessions on gamespy, where after the loading of candlekeep starting are ppl were just, like, "What we gonna do? - Let's just kill every1. - Ok."

And that type of pastime wasn't rare!

[HereticSaint]

If someone is fapping to pixel art, it isn't a big deal.

 

If someone likes Mass Effect 3, it isn't a big deal.

 

If someone thinks Bioware is still awesome, it isn't a big deal.

Except I never cared about any of these. Just make a separate porn,nexusmods(dot)com, Do not allow any nudity and porn in the other sites and it's done. As I said the problem is that almost every file on nexus will have a nude+ pic. And because sometimes the modders themselves use nude mods on their screens, even mods that have nothing to do with that will be flagged as adult.

 

If you don't care you sure act awful condescending towards other people sometimes. On top of that, your argument about nudity is fallacious, I played Skyrim for quite a while and I only accidentally stumbled upon one mod that had any nudity whatosever in it and it was clearly labled as having such within. Even if it were the opposite and what you said was true, then obviously someone has a desire for that then, right?

 

But clearly, that's only foreveralone guys, right? No one married has ever looked at pornography ever, or anything explicit. I'm not even saying I want anything of the sort in PE (And as far as nudity goes, I'd really probably prefer not), however PE isn't all of a sudden all mature themes except romance and nudity because that's the way you want it. Something you apparently don't realize.

 

Also, Obisidian trying to moderate who makes mods for what sites where is the last thing they should be putting resources into, let alone actually wanting to do. Again, if someone wants to fap to pixel art, it's their business and doesn't by default make them any more or less pathetic than you just because you say so.

 

I however am hoping for deep, meaningful connections with characters that lead into romances.

 

Edit: Apparently, "Biotard", "foreveralone guy" and condescending remarks are okay (as well as telling people what they think is okay and isn't,), but donkey is not. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

Edited October 17, 2012 by HereticSaint

[BR4ZIL]

If someone is fapping to pixel art, it isn't a big deal.

 

If someone likes Mass Effect 3, it isn't a big deal.

 

If someone thinks Bioware is still awesome, it isn't a big deal.

Except I never cared about any of these. Just make a separate porn(dot)nexusmods(dot)com, Do not allow any nudity and porn in the other sites and it's done. As I said the problem is that almost every file on nexus will have a nude+ pic. And because sometimes the modders themselves use nude mods on their screens, even mods that have nothing to do with that will be flagged as adult. Or not and it's still going to have that imature nude H cup pic.

 

Ok, so no worries there, P:E isnt gonna be the kind of game that you can really show nudity and the worse it can happen to you is that there is gonna be written porn in a mod. On another note i find somewhat funny you being worried about nudity when P:E clearly is meant for a much more mature audience (sure we get stupid "BOOBIES" mods on the Nexus, but those are trash like many other mods).

Edited October 17, 2012 by BR4ZIL

[villain of the story]

Gary Gygax. And neither wrote any romances for their games. (see, I can do it too! R00FLES!)

 

In DMG 1st edition there was actually a table to generate random prostitute for a character.

 

Good to know that you hold romance on the same level as prostitution. That almost sounds like an admission of something but I can't quite put my finger on what.

 

And a lot of D&D novels and modules involve romance.

 

And a lot of them don't. I was talking about Gary Gygax in particular, though. You don't have to weasel out by shifting focus.

 

And about argument. It's good idead to respect games, that started an era of IE games that Obsidian is trying to recreate.

 

Yeah, so is mine and mine negates yours.

 

Please, produce real arguments, not drivel.