Romance and friendship?

[Rosveen]

I can't ever cite Baldur's Gate 2 as an example of good romance options because I just... I just hate Anomen so much...

Well, Viconia romance was indisputably great, but I guess it won't convince the majority of female players that BG2 had good romances... Hopefully we're past the age of games tailored to male players.

 

 

Not really.

Alistair stays dead in DA2 if you killed him in DAO; Zevran reappearing in DA2 after being killed in DAO is a confirmed bug, he is not supposed to do so.

Leliana is a confirmed retcon though.

Also Anders. True, the burned body in the Keep might have not been his, but if we never recruited Justice then there's no way they'd have bonded, yet somehow they did.

 

 

Well, to be fair, in DA3 they can proclaim Leliana has been resurrected by Andraste herself peeping out from Heavens, confirming the Maker is real while they are on it. So that or something like that can add some common sense to the retcon.

Doesn't matter. The damage is already done, players personally killed Leliana and then saw her alive and well in the next game. They're not going to buy a dubious explanation.

 

 

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

[kenup]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

[ReyVagabond]

Ieo, in this we agree mods is the best way to chage those little things about the game we love and turn it into our own game.

If we are given moding tools, ill be a hapy moder!

[FlintlockJazz]

Friendships should be done first and should take priority. I'd prefer to just get to know those I'm adventuring with and can be experienced by all characters regardless of gender or type and without locking you out of others usually. Romances can be added after all the characters have been fleshed out properly and only if it doesn't detract from the friendship tracks (if I have to listen to 'need to get back calibrating the calibrations' because I'm not romancing them then heads will roll), and neither romances nor friendships should be a case of ego stroking, especially not that of the player since that is what has put me off so many modern games, stop pampering to me godsdamnit. Plus, I'd like to see the exploration of relations other than sexual or romantic (because not all sexual relationships are romantic, something that alot of people on this thread seem to not realise in their definitions, are people really claiming that shagging a whore is romance...?). Camaraderie (properly done), parental, sibling, loads could be used for greater effort for 'characterisation' and enables you to have multiple characters being developed in a single playthrough rather than being forced with just the one with romances, so you could have an entire party chatting away and getting characterised without rather than just the one you want to bang while the rest stay strangely silent.

 

If they do have romances, I'd like there to be no sex either, not because I'm puritanical but because I want to see how many of those people clamouring for romances 'for the characterisation' come crying when they find they can't bone who they want. Call it scientific curiousity. Actually, make it so that anyone who gets romanced dies horribly, so the player is forced to choose between boning them at the cost of their lives or letting them live by not romancing them. Why? Because I'm an evil twisted little **** of a bunny rabbit.

Edited October 17, 2012 by FlintlockJazz

[evdk]

Romance mods for BG2 are the example of what I would never want to see in PE, please stop using them as positive examples, it gives me migraines, thanks.

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Well, "adult" mods (quotation marks very much intended) are at least good for a laugh, multiheaded **** and all...

 

EDIT: I would like to know what would happen if I was talking about Richard.

Edited October 17, 2012 by evdk

[Ieo]

Ieo, in this we agree mods is the best way to chage those little things about the game we love and turn it into our own game.

If we are given moding tools, ill be a hapy moder!

 

Even if there aren't official tools, modders will make their own. Like WeiDU, right? Just the fact that Obsidian will keep the content data transparent is the biggest step.

[Teuthida]

I can't ever cite Baldur's Gate 2 as an example of good romance options because I just... I just hate Anomen so much...

Well, Viconia romance was indisputably great, but I guess it won't convince the majority of female players that BG2 had good romances... Hopefully we're past the age of games tailored to male players.

 

I did end up modding my game so my female PC was registered by everyone as male, then proceeded to wonder why female characters had to put up with Anomen while dudes got Viconia. I wanted us to be two badass ladies kicking everyone's backsides and engaging in vicious, snarky banter together!

[Minttunator]

Actually, I see mods as precisely a way for players to create for themselves what they might want in the game or see as a missing element, poor Mary Sue fan-fic quality and all, not something to specifically emulate for inclusion into Project Eternity proper. If someone honestly believes they're missing a "decent" transsexual romance option, let them write it themselves. Let content mods and core game remain separate forever more. That's not a bad thing.

 

I agree with this 100%, I have absolutely no problem with mods, however horrible they might be. Hell, Nexus has a non-adult section so I won't even SEE that they exist if I don't want to. If the Biodrones want to port Saerileth to PE - I say let them. If some of the Skyrim modders want nude NPCs in PE - I say let them run with it. If someone wants their self-insert to be able to romance a gay transsexual furry NPC, it's no skin off my back - as long as she writes the mod for it herself. Just don't waste the developers' time with it.

[qloher]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes?

[BR4ZIL]

Romance mods for BG2 are the example of what I would never want to see in PE, please stop using them as positive examples, it gives me migraines, thanks.

 

While you might have not enjoyed them (or had experience with really badly written ones) i would point out the NPC expansion for BG1 mod as an excelent example of how party dialogue would be done (its way better than ME's or DA's, IMO) , it gives all NPCs the much needed banter and adds makes few of the characters have a romance option. As a kinda of a BG modder myself (currently doing a NPC mod), i find your statement quite rude, since we dont all make crappy pornographic dialogues ( this is the kind of feeling i got from your statement).

 

Also, Saerileth is probably one of the worst examples out there. Gotta Agree with that.

[kenup]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes?

I don't care about what they have, or do, in their homes. But there should always be limits and rules in a community, both on-line and off-line. It can't just be "anything goes". There is no totalitarian mindset, it's logic.

Edited October 17, 2012 by kenup

[Pshaw]

First off I'll just say I'm a huge fan of relationships between the main character and your party. I feel it adds to the connection can feel with certain characters in your party. I would go so far to say not having romance options would be a letdown as it's pretty much a genre standard both in games and literature.

 

Now I won't say it's always handled in a good way. I think basically this comes from sex being the 'goal' of the relationship subplots rather than a just a furthering of a relationship. It doesn't need to be a goal or event, heck it doesn't need to exist at all for a relationship subplot to be worthwhile. Also the sex seems to be the determining factor of you even being in a relationship rather than it ever coming up before hand which seems a bit backwards to me. The DA series sometimes seemed to be based more around sex than real relationships for the most part. Which is a shame since the characters are pretty interesting in some cases so it's sad that in devolves into 'hey, you're nice to me so let's bang' at some point.

 

Which does bring up another point. Romance shouldn't just be choosing the polite dialogue options over and over, at least not for everbody. Viconia in BG2 was a good example of this, sometimes you had to tell her she was wrong and have a fight and then later on you'd talk about the fight and move past it. That made it feel more real than just coddling her. Morrigan from DA:O was similar in that regard. Too much lovey-dovey stuff and you could scare her away entirely. Even you don't chase her away she's still scared of relying on the warden and will stop sleeping with you and still leave the warden in the end as he isn't the most important thing in her world. Sometimes being nice/agreeable nonstop makes sense and other times it doesn't I just hate to see it where it doesn't fit in.

 

It's ok to not agree about what makes a romance 'good' or 'realistic' everybody has their own opinions on that sort of thing. Regardless I enjoy having romance subplots in the game even if they're a bit cliche at points. I'd rather have the option be present and attempted than nothing at all.

 

For the romance haters out there from all we've heard about project eternity I don't think it should be much of an issue for you. Not only are NPCs going to be largely optional but if you still want npcs, just not the ones given to you, you have access to the adventures hall to make all the generic npcs you could want. Beyond that you can simply not pursue the dialogue options that lead to romances. So there are plenty of options already being planned to allow you to not be involved in romances if that's not your thing.

 

Finally if you say it takes away from development time that could be used for a few more quest chains I'd just have to come right and say it's not a big deal. This game seems like it will be fairly large scale. I'd imagine 40hours for a complete play through will probably be a fair estimate. 40 hours of dungeon stomping, dialogue trees, and quests. You'd really begrudge the development time it takes to add romances to the game so you could have 1-2 more hours of quests where as the people who would like to see romances would get nothing if they were left out? I think that's a little disproportionate. Their will already be plenty of game to be played regardless of romances being in the game so I say let me and the people who want them have them rather than another handful of generic side missions.

 

PS: As a quick aside to the LGBT community. I do agree that romance options should include characters who are gay/bisexual. Preferably in a game like PE where they can simply insert your characters sex into the dialogue very easily without voice acting I don't see why it shouldn't be included. Let people romance who they want to romance. In truth I'd love to see at least 1 NPC that was just homosexual. We get plenty of straight romance options, and bioware has included bisexual relationships as well. Still nobody has had a character (to romance) that only prefers same sex relationships. Apparently in every video game universe you're straight or your bisexual. I think that's a bit of a cop out. Sure I'd rather have bisexual characters than only straight ones but it's a bit foolish in this day and age to still be tip-toeing around the issue of just being strictly homosexual, people are homosexual, they're out there.

 

I know this last topic can make people uncomfortable but so can any mature subject in a game. Murder, rape, abuse, and so forth are all used as needed without much concern for who they will make uncomfortable. I don't see why homosexual characters should be completely excluded from the industry to protect people who find it to be an uncomfortable topic.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Pshaw

[qloher]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes?

I don't care about what they have, or do, in their homes. But there should always be limits in a community, both on-line and off-line. It can't just be "anything goes". There is no totalitarian mindset, it's logic.

And where the line lies is of cause for you to decide, right?

[BR4ZIL]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes?

 

Also agree with you here, any mods should be allowed (as long as it doesnt involve breaking contracts). Censoring would just be wrong, why deny people of what they want in the game?

 

Its not logical, we should allow the modders to express themself however they see fit, that is one of the main fundations for a modding community anyway, to show your creativity.

Edited October 17, 2012 by BR4ZIL

[Gyges]

I want romances, some don't. I don't care for some things, others do. A romance in these games should be a deeper, more personal exploration of a companion's character and how their way of interacting with you is altered by their feelings. More replayability and variety.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Gyges

[Rosveen]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

Who will decide what's allowed and what's not? The whole point of modding is customization. If someone wants a romance mod or lightsabers in their Skyrim, let them have it - you don't have to download it if you don't want to. Just avoid the "adult" section.

 

If a part of mods is banned from Nexus, they'll be distributed on other sites and all you'll accomplish is having several separate sites instead of one comprehensive list. This is a bad move because ease of use should be our priority.

 

Bottom line: censorship is wrong, you can't usurp control over other people's games.

[kenup]

That's the reason I was, and still am, against allowing mods on nexus for PE. "Romantic" romance mods will be the least concern though.

Why? There will be mods for PE, we can't stop it at this point even if we wanted to - and Nexus is arguably the best place to put them on. Where else would you want to see them?

In a place where there are limits about what is allowed. And also in a place where it's not populated by bethesda fatboys that download porn mods primarily.

What's up with this totalitarian mindset? So trying to deny people romances in the main game is not enough, now you are willing to deny them to have theirs in their personal small apartment HDD mod space? Ban and censor the opposition right in their homes?

I don't care about what they have, or do, in their homes. But there should always be limits in a community, both on-line and off-line. It can't just be "anything goes". There is no totalitarian mindset, it's logic.

And where the line lies is of cause for you to decide, right?

Yes! That's exactly it. I'm the perfect person for this job! That's what I'm saying. You got me right there!

 

You really need to get out.

 

@Rosveen There is no adult section on nexus. You can go at any mod that has nothing to do with nudity, and you'll still see foreveralone guys, even the modder themselves, posting screenshots of their H cupped naked pc. And nice strawman with lightsabers. It's much better to have different sites for porn mods. You don't see any porn mods on the KotOR filefront mod sites. This hasn't stopped the community from rolling mods out.

Edited October 17, 2012 by kenup

[BR4ZIL]

kenup, out of curiosity, what kind of mods you think should be censored?

 

This discussion really makes me remember a old topic about a guy that wanted to shut down a mod that made Viconia lesbian, mainly because he thought it was wrong .

 

I really cant see any reason for someone to want to censorship mods.

Edited October 17, 2012 by BR4ZIL

[Brannart]

I did end up modding my game so my female PC was registered by everyone as male, then proceeded to wonder why female characters had to put up with Anomen while dudes got Viconia. I wanted us to be two badass ladies kicking everyone's backsides and engaging in vicious, snarky banter together!

 

Ok Bioware is not doing this game. But I think this is a good example of what worries me a bit about Romances. A few in there as a fun little mini game is alright (heck I even enjoyed the Anomen thing but I am a dude so my female character was just along for the ride. It was so melodramatically cheesy I thought it was fun. But it was also short and did not distract much from the main game). But you are right that if you are going to do sexuality like this then everybody wants an equal option. And trying to provide a romance for everybody and do them right and involve them in the plot or whatever becomes a huge task. Particularly since this is a game where some people will be taking zero NPC companions b/c of the adventurer's hall thing. Utlimately it is up to Obsidian but if they decide to do without the Romances I will not blame them. I think having seen the monster grow in BW games I can do without them, but if they are there I will enjoy them for what they are.

 

Just, you know, don't let them dominate the game.

[Mrakvampire]

the discussion about censorship, and all that romance hate is so facepalm, that I really can't describe my emotional stat right now.

[Teuthida]

PS: As a quick aside to the LGBT community. I do agree that romance options should include characters who are gay/bisexual. Preferably in a game like PE where they can simply insert your characters sex into the dialogue very easily without voice acting I don't see why it shouldn't be included. Let people romance who they want to romance. In truth I'd love to see at least 1 NPC that was just homosexual. We get plenty of straight romance options, and bioware has included bisexual relationships as well. Still nobody has had a character (to romance) that only prefers same sex relationships. Apparently in every video game universe you're straight or your bisexual. I think that's a bit of a cop out. Sure I'd rather have bisexual characters than only straight ones but it's a bit foolish in this day and age to still be tip-toeing around the issue of just being strictly homosexual, people are homosexual, they're out there.

 

First of all this is a good post and you should feel good about it

 

Secondly yes thank you, I really hope that if romance options are included there are at least some non-heterosexual ones. I'd also love for video game writers in general to stop with the trend of any openly bisexual characters falling into the "sex-crazed rogue" archetype (pointed stares at Zevran and Isabela). It really adds fuel to the ridiculous argument that bisexuality isn't a valid sexual orientation, and the stereotype that all bisexual people "just really like sex", and so on and so forth. It's a harmful stereotype to keep perpetuating and I criiiinge every time I see it happen in games.

[Bill Gates' Son]

I can't ever cite Baldur's Gate 2 as an example of good romance options because I just... I just hate Anomen so much...

Well, Viconia romance was indisputably great, but I guess it won't convince the majority of female players that BG2 had good romances... Hopefully we're past the age of games tailored to male players.

 

I did end up modding my game so my female PC was registered by everyone as male, then proceeded to wonder why female characters had to put up with Anomen while dudes got Viconia. I wanted us to be two badass ladies kicking everyone's backsides and engaging in vicious, snarky banter together!

 

You know the strange thing I notice about Anomen? It's mostly women who seem to hate him, while men seem to like him a lot or just don't care about him. I think it has something to with him being the only romancable male though. I personally <3 Anomen.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Bill Gates' Son

[Brannart]

I want romances, some don't. I don't care for some things, others do. A romance in these games should be a deeper, more personal exploration of a companion's character and how their way of interacting with you is altered by their feelings. More replayability and variety.

 

Well I couldn't help but notice practically the only meaningful choice you got in DA and ME was who you romanced. If doing them right means stripping away the variety and replayability from other elements I would just assume do without them. It is not that I do not enjoy romances, I do, but they seem to have become this massive monster that dominates modern RPGs and I want to see them tamed a bit.

[kenup]

kenup, out of curiosity, what kind of mods you think should be censored?

 

This discussion really makes me remember a old topic about a guy that wanted to shut down a mod that made Viconia lesbian, mainly because he thought it was wrong .

 

I really cant see any reason for someone to want to censorship mods.

Nude and porn mods?

 

I don't see any reason why someone would want to censor nudity on the news either!

[jivex5k]

Games shouldn't give a damn about politics or how they portray their characters in relation to the real world.

So there's some obnoxiously forward bisexual predator in a game. The developers aren't saying: "Yep, this is how all bisexuals behave." They just made a damn character. It's these sensitive folks that perceive insults that are not there and freak out...get over yourself.