Update #17: Brian Fargo from inXile Kicks In, Obsidian Kicks it Forward, New $165 Tier, and Expansion

[Voror]

Was a little surprised to see the expansion, given that it won't be out for some time after the game releases and I'd imagine they would have wanted to see how sales outside the KS go, but I am happy to see it. Problem is, I can't go for the $250. I am at $140 currently and I would love to go higher, but I can't. Now if there is an add-on for the expansion, I can do that.

 

Shame though, I really want a copy of that book. Well, provided it is actually substantial and not some 30 page deal you get with some sets.

[Cantousent]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it. If we offer the expansion as an add-on, that total number gets confusing. I'll be talking to Feargus about it.

 

Separate kickstarter then?

This would cannibalize their current kickstarter and, moreover, make the inclusion in this kickstarter confusing as all hell.

[Rabain]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it. If we offer the expansion as an add-on, that total number gets confusing. I'll be talking to Feargus about it.

 

This doesn't really make sense considering the Xpac is being offered as part of 165+ KS tiers. So if you up your pledge to 165+ you get the expansion but aren't paying for it? You are paying for the main game and a "free" Xpac? Isn't that the same as asking for a pledge increase for a "free" Xpac via an Addon?

[Naithin]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it. If we offer the expansion as an add-on, that total number gets confusing. I'll be talking to Feargus about it.

You could look at it like this: if there is an Xpac addon the money will go towards the main game development but you get the Xpac "free" if/when it is completed.

 

This is basically what is happening with the $165+ tiers right now anyway. If you have upped your pledge to a $165+ tier you have not paid for the Xpac, you have paid more for the main game but get the Xpac free.

 

And Addon would be the same thing.

 

This is the two points of view I was considering when I said I would be surprised if it didn't happen, but also acknowledged it could be an awkward space to consider and may simply add fuel to the fire already raging in the KS comments no matter how unwarranted.

 

Last thing I want to see is this thing go backwards -- although signs so far point to an exceptionally vocal minority with things progressing rather well despite -- so I'd understand if there were reservations about adding it.

 

All I'm saying is -- and I don't think I'd be alone here -- despite being tight on funds, if this addon was done -- even for another $20 or even $30 -- with the understanding presented as by Rabain, I'd most certainly go for it.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Wasteland 2 is a great extra, they know that a lot of people who have pledged already have it, so it's not such a loss for inXile and it encourages new backers. I think the rewards are still broken, if they had gone lower especially on the $100-200 rewards they would have way more pledges at those mid range tiers, and the lower tier rewards aren't that appealing either. Also what's with $20 for international shipping? That's not how much it costs to my country, it's mostly under $10. Why is it free for the US and Canada? The expansion is an interesting one, they're probably not going to be tying it the kickstarter funding, they have just seen Eternity's success and already committed to an expansion. It's a bit of a gamble, but I think they have more room to scale things down if they need to, not like the main project where they have solid commitments. Brian Fargo apparently doesn't age, highly suspicious if you ask me.

Edited October 8, 2012 by AwesomeOcelot

[Undecaf]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it.

 

Thank you.

[Monte Carlo]

About expansion packs... I followed BG1's dev cycle closely at the time. After it shipped a dev commented (quite innocently) that Tales of the Sword Coast had gone gold by the time BG1 shipped.

 

There is nothing new about staging content without it being 'Day One DLC.'

[Amentep]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it. If we offer the expansion as an add-on, that total number gets confusing. I'll be talking to Feargus about it.

 

Separate kickstarter then?

This would cannibalize their current kickstarter and, moreover, make the inclusion in this kickstarter confusing as all hell.

 

I meant AFTER this one ends (and wasn't 100% serious, hence the smile-thingy)

[jivex5k]

Mixed feelings here.....I can easily upgrade to $165 tier(presently pledging 168) by adding $5 but then I'd have to give up the boxed CE(which is not happening) yet since I can't afford the $250 tier I lose out on the expansion pack and 6 months seems like a very long time to wait.

 

I really don't like this update though I look forward to the next stretch goals and such....

You don't get the expansion pack 6 months early, you get it for free when it's released 6 months after the game.

[Lysen]

Brian Fargo apparently doesn't age, highly suspicious if you ask me.

 

My first thought at this comment - wow, Fargo is a vampire! Guess I've played Bloodlines too much.

[anek]

My question would be how are they going to fund the expansion pack? From the KS campaign?

 

Well, I guess they hope that PE will be a commercial success.

 

Many of us believe it will, but it's not guaranteed. But then again kickstarter projects are not guaranteed to successfully deliver on their goals in the first place.

 

 

If your reward includes a copy of the game, what it actually means is that if the development of the game succeeds as planned, then you will get a copy of it.

 

Similarly, if your reward includes a copy of the expansion, what it actually means is that if the development of the game succeeds as planned, and if after that it sells enough copies to fund development of an expansion, and if the development of the expansion then succeeds as planned, then you will get a copy of it.

 

 

Yes, it means you have to go out on a limb.

But that's what you are doing anyways, whenever you support a Kickstarter project.

 

It is up to you to decide, which risks are acceptable for the amount of money you choose to pledge. If you are unsure about the expansion, simply ignore it and only choose the corresponding tier if you would have chosen it anyways.

Edited October 8, 2012 by anek

[Kaldurenik]

Have we come to the stage where people dont even know what a expansion pack is anymore =(? Its just sad... This is not day one dlc... Its a expansion pack that will be released 6 months (give or take) after release.

[Tale]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it. If we offer the expansion as an add-on, that total number gets confusing. I'll be talking to Feargus about it.

 

This doesn't really make sense considering the Xpac is being offered as part of 165+ KS tiers. So if you up your pledge to 165+ you get the expansion but aren't paying for it? You are paying for the main game and a "free" Xpac? Isn't that the same as asking for a pledge increase for a "free" Xpac via an Addon?

The $165+ groups are a limited number of people because its a prohibitive group. It would only be the same if they did a $100 addon for the expansion. Not $10.

[Monte Carlo]

My question would be how are they going to fund the expansion pack? From the KS campaign?

 

Well, I guess they hope that PE will be a commercial success.

 

Many of us believe it will, but it's not guaranteed. But then again kickstarter projects are not guaranteed to successfully deliver on their goals in the first place.

 

 

If your reward includes a copy of the game, what it actually means is that if the development of the game succeeds as planned, then you will get a copy of it.

 

Similarly, if your reward includes a copy of the expansion, what it actually means is that if the development of the game succeeds as planned, and if after that it sells enough copies to fund development of an expansion, and if the development of the expansion then succeeds as planned, then you will get a copy of it.

 

 

Yes, it means you have to go out on a limb.

But that's what you are doing anyways, whenever you support a Kickstarter project.

 

It is up to you to decide, which risks are acceptable for the amount of money you choose to pledge. If you are unsure about the expansion, simply ignore it and only choose the corresponding tier if you would have chosen it anyways.

 

Dude you are too logical for the internet.

 

My problem is that I could stretch to the $165 but I want my collector's tier. Well, its not that much of a problem because I'm getting quite a lot of goodies at my physical CE tier but personally the digital only $165 isn't for me as W2 doesn't float my boat.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Monte Carlo

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

At least, I don't think it was HHO's intent and it certainly wasn't mine in the backing I gave him. It was given and supported in the spirit of constructive criticism to see this thing do even better still.

Pretty much this. I've been giving to Kickstarter campaigns since April 2011. I've given as low as $5 and as much as $250 to various projects depending on a lot of factors. I know what it's like to go "Ooh! Just $10 for that? I really *should* do that!" I know what it's like to do that all the way from $20 to $150. And I know how that phenomenon across a wider base of backers can really surge a campaign.

 

It's their campaign. I'm owed nothing other than the game they've chosen to promise and the rewards they've chosen to associate with my chosen tier. I also know how dangerous it can be to UNDER-price physical goods, and I would hate to see them set up a situation that would bleed money and hurt the game. I'm just worried that they're being overly conservative, moreso than any other Kickstarter I've ever backed, and their dollar amount per backer has obviously suffered relative to similar projects.

[Cantousent]

The problem for me is the fact that Kickstarter isn't supposed to be a 'store.' I understand. I get it. Really. That's probably why all the add-ons are digital and the biggest spread is diggital in terms of tier swag. After all, Obsidz greatest asset is talent. Making or commissioning physical items and shipping them requires not only talent, but outlay for a physical product. Digital content is almost pure funding for the game. Physical items only get extra funding after they substract extra costs. Gotcha.

 

Here's the thing, and I'm trying not to be pushy, but I don't value my own sad hide enough to up my pledge for ego-stroking swag. If I could get some physical swag, and that swag must *must* *MUST* increase funding for the project, then I could up my pledge instead of my tier. For that reason, if it's feasible, I hope they offer it. I don't know whether I'm the 'average' or 'common' consumer, but I am *a* consumer and that's the value that could get money from me. If I could buy something useful or beautiful or broadly appealing to folks outside this crowd, I would purchase them. I love my niece. She won't play the game, but she *will* wear a tasteful and pretty t-shirt. My wife may or may not play the game, but she can actually use a thumb-drive. In fact, she does all the time.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

looks like I'll be getting two games. I missed the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter and now will be getting it.

[Rabain]

The $165+ groups are a limited number of people because its a prohibitive group. It would only be the same if they did a $100 addon for the expansion. Not $10.

 

It is not about the numbers of people, it is about the logic behind what is being done. On one hand they are saying making an Addon for the Xpac might be awkward considering all KS funds do to the main game while at the same time saying all $165+ tiers get the Xpac free. What you are saying by doing that is that the reward for pledging 165+ is a free Xpac, so essentially you have paid for it. Just as if you had paid for an Addon.

 

Anyway I am highly doubtful that the 30-40k people in the $20-50 pledge tiers would have a dramatic effect on the profitability of an Xpac. In order to make the game a success and give them funds to make an Xpac they need people to buy the main game, not the Xpac. The people pledging $20-50 already have the main game so giving them an Addon only gives more cash to the development of the main game.

 

Also I think people are being a bit excessive with estimates for the main game and the Xpac. I'd expect to see the main game available digitally for not more than $40 (it is a KS funded game, not AAA, you can't expect massive pricing), I'd expect an Xpac to be almost half that price. Talking about $100 dollar Xpacs is fantasy.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Rabain

[Kaldurenik]

At least, I don't think it was HHO's intent and it certainly wasn't mine in the backing I gave him. It was given and supported in the spirit of constructive criticism to see this thing do even better still.

Pretty much this. I've been giving to Kickstarter campaigns since April 2011. I've given as low as $5 and as much as $250 to various projects depending on a lot of factors. I know what it's like to go "Ooh! Just $10 for that? I really *should* do that!" I know what it's like to do that all the way from $20 to $150. And I know how that phenomenon across a wider base of backers can really surge a campaign.

 

It's their campaign. I'm owed nothing other than the game they've chosen to promise and the rewards they've chosen to associate with my chosen tier. I also know how dangerous it can be to UNDER-price physical goods, and I would hate to see them set up a situation that would bleed money and hurt the game. I'm just worried that they're being overly conservative, moreso than any other Kickstarter I've ever backed, and their dollar amount per backer has obviously suffered relative to similar projects.

Project Eternity: 45$

Broken Sword: 55$

Double Fine: 38$

Wasteland 2: 48$

 

ofc this dont take into account pay pal. And the information (for PE) is abit old.

[Tale]

The $165+ groups are a limited number of people because its a prohibitive group. It would only be the same if they did a $100 addon for the expansion. Not $10.

 

It is not about the numbers of people, it is about the logic behind what is being done. On one hand they are saying making an Addon for the Xpac might be awkward considering all KS funds do to the main game while at the same time saying all $165+ tiers get the Xpac free. What you are saying by doing that is that the reward for pledging 165+ is a free Xpac, so essentially you have paid for it. Just as if you had paid for an Addon.

An overpriced addon for a small group. Each expansion handed out in the kickstarter is essentially done at a loss. Minimize that.

 

The people pledging $20-50 already have the game so giving them an Addon only gives more cash to the development of the main game.

It's borrowing money from Charles to pay Bill, which is a classic problem. They'd be borrowing profits and sales from the next title down the line to fund the current title's production. There's nothing to be gained that way. For you or for them. Yes, it's "more cash to the development of the main game" but that cash is coming from somewhere else.

 

People could just as easily buy the expansion closer to release without the accounting headache.

[Zap Rowsdower]

Would it be possible for a physical $165 tier? Because I would gladly throw in an extra $25 for Wasteland 2 and the expansion pack downloads, but I don't want to give up my collector's box and the like. $250 is just too high for me otherwise.

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

At least, I don't think it was HHO's intent and it certainly wasn't mine in the backing I gave him. It was given and supported in the spirit of constructive criticism to see this thing do even better still.

Pretty much this. I've been giving to Kickstarter campaigns since April 2011. I've given as low as $5 and as much as $250 to various projects depending on a lot of factors. I know what it's like to go "Ooh! Just $10 for that? I really *should* do that!" I know what it's like to do that all the way from $20 to $150. And I know how that phenomenon across a wider base of backers can really surge a campaign.

 

It's their campaign. I'm owed nothing other than the game they've chosen to promise and the rewards they've chosen to associate with my chosen tier. I also know how dangerous it can be to UNDER-price physical goods, and I would hate to see them set up a situation that would bleed money and hurt the game. I'm just worried that they're being overly conservative, moreso than any other Kickstarter I've ever backed, and their dollar amount per backer has obviously suffered relative to similar projects.

Project Eternity: 45$

Broken Sword: 55$

Double Fine: 38$

Wasteland 2: 48$

 

ofc this dont take into account pay pal. And the information (for PE) is abit old.

I was actually looking at:

 

 

Project Eternity

Average $45

 

Wasteland 2

Average $48

 

Project Fedora

Average $86

 

Shadowrun Returns

Average $51

 

Grandroids

Average $98

 

Doing a more comprehensive search, it seems Obsidian IS doing better per-backer than Double Fine Adventure, Banner Saga, Dead State, and(as you mentioned it) Broken Sword.

Edited October 8, 2012 by HungryHungryOuroboros

[Olauron Mor-Galad]

The $165+ groups are a limited number of people because its a prohibitive group. It would only be the same if they did a $100 addon for the expansion. Not $10.

 

It is not about the numbers of people, it is about the logic behind what is being done. On one hand they are saying making an Addon for the Xpac might be awkward considering all KS funds do to the main game while at the same time saying all $165+ tiers get the Xpac free. What you are saying by doing that is that the reward for pledging 165+ is a free Xpac, so essentially you have paid for it. Just as if you had paid for an Addon.

"It is reward" not equal to "you have paid for it". Getting it as an addon is almost equal to paying for it. The logic is fine.

[SqueakyCat]

The new $165 tier already has already attracted 100+ backers in a little over 2 hours.

[Naithin]

The people pledging $20-50 already have the game so giving them an Addon only gives more cash to the development of the main game.

It's borrowing money from Charles to pay Bill, which is a classic problem. They'd be borrowing profits and sales from the next title down the line to fund the current title's production. There's nothing to be gained that way. For you or for them. Yes, it's "more cash to the development of the main game" but that cash is coming from somewhere else.

 

People could just as easily buy the expansion closer to release without the accounting headache.

 

True, but incomplete.

 

Depending on what the additional funds were able to add to the game -- be it simply additional polish or meeting another feature/content stretch goal -- then it may draw in additional purchasers at full retail than otherwise would have been the case through better reviews and the like.

 

In which case, it becomes an investment. A gamble, impossible to quantify, but an investment nonetheless.

 

I don't overly mind whether it becomes an addon or whether I end up purchasing at time of release, but, if it becomes an addon chances are good I'd pick it up.