Update #15: PayPal, Polish and Russian support, $2.5M/$2.6M stretch goals, new reddit Q&A, classes, and art!

[Sensuki]

If you pay via PayPal, Obsidian keeps more money than if you donate via Kickstarter yes? (Kickstarter is 10% to kickstarter, paypal's like 3% isnt it ?)

 

I'm thinking of grabbing a Collector's Edition Box alongside my $20 early bird pledge (in hoping that it will be like the old BG1 big box style) but if I paypal you get like $8 more or something I think

Edited October 4, 2012 by Sensuki

[Wombat]

[speculation] So, in PE's world, people with different ideologies fight each other using both physical power, trying to make use of their own methodologies? Still not clear how classes play here: They seem to dictate how the characters access "soul" power-sources. And yet, belonging the same class don't mean they are under the same faction/race/social classes. This is particularly clear among believers of different "deities."

[Plasma Jesus]

This update was completely awesome, I'm very excited, however I am a little worried that my favorite style of class (paladin) doesn't seem to be in PE. I'd be ok with a fighter that can cast healing and such, even if there isn't a definite class. Other than that PE keeps sounded better and better and I'd give you more money if any now.

[AlphaShard]

I really want and hope that the Paladin and Bard classes are included in one of the stretch goals. I like that we have monks, Barbs and even the Cihper aka Pysonist. I think Pally's and Bards get alot of flack for different reasons but they are still great classes and unique feels for a game. They are big staples of this Genre.

[Dostro89]

The new party creation strech goal sort of makes me a little bit nervous. Quite possibly unneccesarily but I just wanted to state it anyways. Companoins are so much more than just things that fill up the numbers. Coompanions are fully fledged characters with their own narative and I dont want this to possibly dilute that.

[Shevek]

Distro89: Don't use the adventurer's hall if you don't like it. Use it if you do.

[Cantousent]

Now I feel guilty for mocking paladins twice in the thread.

 

Regarding alignment: since I'm holding forth quite a bit tonight, I'd like to point out something about alignment. I hate it. Some folks see it as confining, and it undoubtedly is confining, but I see it as odious in and of itself. The questions of right and wrong, let alone good and evil, are central to philosophy and religion throughout our entire history. These are tough, often ugly, and contentious issues that have defied definition in any society. Large issues tend to find universal or near universal agreement, but fine points break down under scrutiny every time. To have such hard fast rules that are pervasive and abiding as concrete conditions in the game world is offensive at its very core. Forget about the fact that they box in the player. They render his own personal judgment moot. I say we bury alignment and celebrate by breaking open a bottle of wine. :Cant's passing around glasses of Burgundy icon:

[Knott]

With the flexibilities presented in the update, a Paladin could basically be a Priest that favours a deity that more or less resembles the Holy Triad (Tyr, Torm Illmater) of the forgotten reamls. And the character build will focus more on martial prowess rather than plenty of spells (depending on how the flexibility within classes will actually work).

 

The Paladin might not be there in name, but he's definately there in spirit.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Knott

[Gfted1]

Well, there's a difference between an absolute, discernable, and universal alignment system and the tenets of faith. A deity will still have a code and require the adherrants to abide by the code. In that way, the diety requires that follows 'align' with his faith, but that's still not a universal 'alignment.' It's a personal rather than absolute alignment. DnD really screwed up the we grognards use the word, 'alignment.'

 

EDIT: I don't know why I try to tidy up my sloppy assed posts, but I guess I can't help myself.

Yeah, if a deity commands that "Thou shallt not defile the dead", then that would mean that the Priest could not cast "create undead" and it is likely that the priest will be opposed to the undead. It does not mean that the deity is Anti-evil, it means the deity is anti-undead.

 

The concept of undeath might not be exclusively evil either.

 

Heh, I suppose but that kinda sounds like creative deciphering. I would be surprised if they used that term (alignment) off the cuff.

 

Now I feel guilty for mocking paladins twice in the thread.

 

Regarding alignment: since I'm holding forth quite a bit tonight, I'd like to point out something about alignment. I hate it. Some folks see it as confining, and it undoubtedly is confining, but I see it as odious in and of itself. The questions of right and wrong, let alone good and evil, are central to philosophy and religion throughout our entire history. These are tough, often ugly, and contentious issues that have defied definition in any society. Large issues tend to find universal or near universal agreement, but fine points break down under scrutiny every time. To have such hard fast rules that are pervasive and abiding as concrete conditions in the game world is offensive at its very core. Forget about the fact that they box in the player. They render his own personal judgment moot. I say we bury alignment and celebrate by breaking open a bottle of wine. :Cant's passing around glasses of Burgundy icon:

 

See, to me it just sounds like a mechanic to limit priests power. Kinda like a mages different schools. Keeps the player from having every single spell by making them choose.

[Guest eskimojustice]

I cannot tell you how happy it makes me to see female character design that involves functional looking armor. That covers things that requires armoring. A+++

[Wombat]

Now I feel guilty for mocking paladins twice in the thread.

 

Regarding alignment: since I'm holding forth quite a bit tonight, I'd like to point out something about alignment. I hate it. Some folks see it as confining, and it undoubtedly is confining, but I see it as odious in and of itself. The questions of right and wrong, let alone good and evil, are central to philosophy and religion throughout our entire history. These are tough, often ugly, and contentious issues that have defied definition in any society. Large issues tend to find universal or near universal agreement, but fine points break down under scrutiny every time. To have such hard fast rules that are pervasive and abiding as concrete conditions in the game world is offensive at its very core. Forget about the fact that they box in the player. They render his own personal judgment moot. I say we bury alignment and celebrate by breaking open a bottle of wine. :Cant's passing around glasses of Burgundy icon:

Then, D&D gods would hit me with lightening since I spoke ill of quite many of D&D mechanics. Especially, I have been feeling the alignments most restrictive. I wanted PE to be free from it, while having some devices to realize a multicultural melting pot like the designers of Glorantha did or through any other means. IMO, it's an interesting place for role-playing, experimenting with different types of conflicts.

 

@Knott

Yeah, the words "battle priests" in the explanation of priest class attracted my eyes but I may be wrong.

[Elerond]

For priests, will there be deities to choose from? Will character alignments restrict this? Will there be character alignments? Will the deity restrict and open up spells to use? Can you decline to worship a deity since the power comes within?

 

It's already been confirmed that there will be no alignment, only reputation with various factions, characters, etc.

 

Doesnt this refute that:

 

...though priests are restricted to invoking prayers that are aligned with their faith.

 

I would think it mean that priest who follow god #1 have different powers than priest who follow god #2. And this don't necessary mean that they have different aligment (in good-evil axis or lawul-chaotic axis). But this is only my interpretation.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Elerond

[Jymm]

OK, this update was awesome. I LOVE The Hall of Adventurers and the ability to create additional characters to fill a gameplay hole left by my refusal to work with a companion I hate. If you cross 2.4 Mil then I'll up my pledge just to help get you to 2.6!

[Cantousent]

Regarding alignment

See, to me it just sounds like a mechanic to limit priests power. Kinda like a mages different schools. Keeps the player from having every single spell by making them choose.

Yeah, I get ya, bro. The thing is that the way PE does it, which is to say the Pirest's deity keeps track of his followers and then prohibits or even prevents the use of some spells, works on more than one level. Functionally, it balances the class nicely. From a logical perspective, it doesn't require any more suspension of the player's disbelief than does the backstory in general. From an RP perspective, it gives a bennie to the player. To use Avellone's terms, it strokes his ego. ...But it doesn't answer what is actually good or evil as universal conditions. It's not like someone can detect your alignment in Eternity.

[choasrepeated]

Personally I'm curious what the details are regarding the Druid.

As the alignment system is out thus the whole neutral thing wont be in play, and without that a druid is just a preist of a nature, or animal god or nature itself.

 

As a result I am very curious what druid means in this context.

Shape changer maybe?

 

Will be good to see.

[Ieo]

Now I feel guilty for mocking paladins twice in the thread.

 

Regarding alignment: since I'm holding forth quite a bit tonight, I'd like to point out something about alignment. I hate it. Some folks see it as confining, and it undoubtedly is confining, but I see it as odious in and of itself. The questions of right and wrong, let alone good and evil, are central to philosophy and religion throughout our entire history. These are tough, often ugly, and contentious issues that have defied definition in any society. Large issues tend to find universal or near universal agreement, but fine points break down under scrutiny every time. To have such hard fast rules that are pervasive and abiding as concrete conditions in the game world is offensive at its very core. Forget about the fact that they box in the player. They render his own personal judgment moot. I say we bury alignment and celebrate by breaking open a bottle of wine. :Cant's passing around glasses of Burgundy icon:

 

I see alignment, especially in DnD terms, as both a role-playing crutch and a symptom of the entire DnD universe. "Demons" and the like, all playing off the more primitive aspects of human moral folklore. As an RP crutch, it sets the basic template for character behavior.

 

Besides being so fundamental to the DnD universe (planes of existence, etc.), I didn't like how it really tied down the classes (although that may have changed since 4ed, dunno).

 

One of the best things about PS:T was, not merely turning around the hard-coded alignment expectations of some races (Dak'kon, Fall-from-Grace), but the fluidity of action upon alignment. There,alignment is an internal indicator--since PS:T was a very "internal" philosophical game, it made sense to use alignment this way. But I don't see too many other games emulating this kind of story necessary for that kind of mechanic.

 

I really like rreputation instead of alignment, because that shifts the internalized RP mode of storytelling to a space that emphasizes interaction with the world at a narrative and dialogic level--that means we can absolutely expect significant, meaningful immersive interaction that gives shape to our character's "life" in the game.

[Gfted1]

Is there a dev post someone can direct me to that says alignment is out? People are saying that but I havent seen it.

[Merin]

Yeah, I'm an atheist but my favorite class to play is paladin, go figure.

 

I'd like to see a paladin stretch goal!

[Osvir]

Great update, great discussions, great ideas :D looking forward to more.

[Cantousent]

Yeah, I'm an atheist but my favorite class to play is paladin, go figure.

 

I'd like to see a paladin stretch goal!

I chuckled when I saw this. I'm a Catholic, but I like to play sober fast talking mages. lol When I was in junior high and high school, one of my friends' parents (a hard charging holy roller) told me I'd go to hell if I played DnD. I don't think that attitude is prevalent today, but it sure as hell was a lot more common back in the day.

[Ieo]

Is there a dev post someone can direct me to that says alignment is out? People are saying that but I havent seen it.

 

http://www.eurogamer...14-release-date

[Wombat]

Is there a dev post someone can direct me to that says alignment is out? People are saying that but I havent seen it.

http://www.eurogamer...14-release-date

 

"While there are social concepts of good and evil," he added, "the game does not track an alignment for the player. Instead we will use a reputation system to keep track of what different groups in the world think of you. Consequences of your actions will matter in Project Eternity."

 

That said, I don't know why I saw karma meter in FONV especially when the rep system worked quite nicely. By reading Sawyers' posts, I thought he would be going to this direction but it took years to realize. Alpha Protocol didn't have alignment, though.

[Robsidious]

 

 

Regarding Paypal... could you guys come up with something similar like what Revolution did?

http://revolution.co...kstarter/paypal

 

 

 

I second this.

 

And not just because I'm enjoying the excitement of watching this game get better funded. We need to know the overall total to inform our decisions about upping pledges when trying to reach stretch goals towards the end.

 

I think that being able to see the grand total would make the kickstarter more exciting, and would create an atmosphere more conducive to upping pledges. If a stretch goal is within reach towards the end, I'm much more likely to pledge more money (probably more than is good for me ;-) if I know what the overall pledge total is.

 

There's a thread discussing this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60900-are-paypal-donations-to-be-counted-on-kickstarter-page/

[Cantousent]

New Vegas had Karma because it is part and parcel of the Fallout universe. I don't think it's necessary, but it was probably easier to put it in than take it out in terms of dealing with the fanbase.

[choasrepeated]

Now I feel guilty for mocking paladins twice in the thread.

 

Regarding alignment: since I'm holding forth quite a bit tonight, I'd like to point out something about alignment. I hate it. Some folks see it as confining, and it undoubtedly is confining, but I see it as odious in and of itself. The questions of right and wrong, let alone good and evil, are central to philosophy and religion throughout our entire history. These are tough, often ugly, and contentious issues that have defied definition in any society. Large issues tend to find universal or near universal agreement, but fine points break down under scrutiny every time. To have such hard fast rules that are pervasive and abiding as concrete conditions in the game world is offensive at its very core. Forget about the fact that they box in the player. They render his own personal judgment moot. I say we bury alignment and celebrate by breaking open a bottle of wine. :Cant's passing around glasses of Burgundy icon:

 

I see alignment, especially in DnD terms, as both a role-playing crutch and a symptom of the entire DnD universe. "Demons" and the like, all playing off the more primitive aspects of human moral folklore. As an RP crutch, it sets the basic template for character behavior.

 

Besides being so fundamental to the DnD universe (planes of existence, etc.), I didn't like how it really tied down the classes (although that may have changed since 4ed, dunno).

 

One of the best things about PS:T was, not merely turning around the hard-coded alignment expectations of some races (Dak'kon, Fall-from-Grace), but the fluidity of action upon alignment. There,alignment is an internal indicator--since PS:T was a very "internal" philosophical game, it made sense to use alignment this way. But I don't see too many other games emulating this kind of story necessary for that kind of mechanic.

 

I really like rreputation instead of alignment, because that shifts the internalized RP mode of storytelling to a space that emphasizes interaction with the world at a narrative and dialogic level--that means we can absolutely expect significant, meaningful immersive interaction that gives shape to our character's "life" in the game.

 

The other problem I found with DnD alignment systems is they really relate to your motivations, but judge your fit in the alignment based on the products of your actions.

 

Thus a lawful evil character is as likely to get many points towards the 'good' end of the spectrum as the lawful good character.

 

The difference between the two comes down to why they acted that way.

 

And thats ignoring the fact that most people see themselves as 'good' and there enemies as 'evil' making such judgements very subjective (a paladin slaughtering a village of goblin is an example of this paradox)