Overreaction theater!

[evdk]

I agree some people want to eat,sleep and sh*t PE and other just want a enjoyable fun game that you don't have to poke your eyes playing.

 

That's pretty crafty, framing the debate so that your side just wants an enjoyable experience, while the other side consists mainly of fanatics.

 

Thanks I guess..lol It just what I feel when I read the post. There are some people trying to force feed how they want the game to be. What's wrong with making the game enjoyable for all types of game players that love RPG's ???

Because making a game for all types of players wasn't what they initially promised when they started the Kickstarter. And since "all types" include BSN denizens, Bethesda LARPers and even worse things I don't want to play (and pay for) a game that takes their tastes into account.

[Zack Fair]

What's wrong with making the game enjoyable for all types of game players that love RPG's ???

You can't ****ing make a game that pleases everyone, that's wrong. Damn I hate that attitude. You know what happens then? Dragon Age 2 happens, and Oblivion happens.

[Vampero]

I agree some people want to eat,sleep and sh*t PE and other just want a enjoyable fun game that you don't have to poke your eyes playing.

 

That's pretty crafty, framing the debate so that your side just wants an enjoyable experience, while the other side consists mainly of fanatics.

 

Thanks I guess..lol It just what I feel when I read the post. There are some people trying to force feed how they want the game to be. What's wrong with making the game enjoyable for all types of game players that love RPG's ???

Because making a game for all types of players wasn't what they initially promised when they started the Kickstarter. And since "all types" include BSN denizens, Bethesda LARPers and even worse things I don't want to play (and pay for) a game that takes their tastes into account.

That is your thoughts, so your doing the same thing. I guess you know what type of player me and everyone else is ?

[evdk]

I agree some people want to eat,sleep and sh*t PE and other just want a enjoyable fun game that you don't have to poke your eyes playing.

 

 

That's pretty crafty, framing the debate so that your side just wants an enjoyable experience, while the other side consists mainly of fanatics.

 

Thanks I guess..lol It just what I feel when I read the post. There are some people trying to force feed how they want the game to be. What's wrong with making the game enjoyable for all types of game players that love RPG's ???

Because making a game for all types of players wasn't what they initially promised when they started the Kickstarter. And since "all types" include BSN denizens, Bethesda LARPers and even worse things I don't want to play (and pay for) a game that takes their tastes into account.

That is your thoughts, so your doing the same thing. I guess you know what type of player me and everyone else is ?

 

One with popamole tastes by the looks of it.

Edited October 2, 2012 by evdk

[Vampero]

What's wrong with making the game enjoyable for all types of game players that love RPG's ???

You can't ****ing make a game that pleases everyone, that's wrong. Damn I hate that attitude. You know what happens then? Dragon Age 2 happens, and Oblivion happens.

 

So you're saying make the game into a encrypted language learning curve ?

[Vampero]

One with popamole tastes by the looks of it.

 

I see you assume you know what I want . If I say the glass is half full ,you will tell me it's half empty.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Pidesco

[Amentep]

eh...any project that starts as an "old school" game is going to have a breaking point where fans see it as "old school in name only". I think that goes with the territory.

 

While I may not care if the game is OSINO, I understand why others who backed this for their specific love of particular games in the pitch may not like certain things they feel don't meet their Old School thresh-hold. I'm passionate about games...kinda hard to fault others who are passionate about games.

[evdk]

I see you assume you know what I want . If I say the glass is half full ,you will tell me it's half empty.

No, I'll tell you it's full of something I don't want.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Pidesco
politeness

[Crusty]

What's wrong with making the game enjoyable for all types of game players that love RPG's ???

You can't ****ing make a game that pleases everyone, that's wrong. Damn I hate that attitude. You know what happens then? Dragon Age 2 happens, and Oblivion happens.

 

So you're saying make the game into a encrypted language learning curve ?

 

I would like a game that takes it's cues from the Infinity Engine games and similar types of cRPGs (Arcanum, Fallout, etc). Mainly games that the folks at Obsidian were involved with in the past. On top of that, I would also like to see how Obsidian could use Project Eternity to showcase new and interesting ideas/mechanics for the genre.

 

As a result, I'm perfectly happy to sacrifice many things taken for granted in modern RPGs that don't add all that much: cinematics, full VA, AAA graphics, romances, and mass market appeal.

 

That is what Obsidian promised and that is what I'm hoping for.

 

Why is that desire so foreign to you?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Crusty

[Living One]

So much butthurt from the candylanders.

 

By the way has Obsidian already confirmed linear dungeons to not get lost or are they saving it to attract the DA crowd even more later?And what about quest markers?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Living One

[Osvir]

I don't know which threads and topics you read (by the way I read about the 4-5 first posts of this topic), but the threads I enter and tackle as well as talk about in them aren't "Booo!!!!".

 

It is creative people with creative ideas, constructing them together and discussing them together. Making them better post by post. The nature of feedback is "YAY THAT IS AWESOME!!" (positive) or "NAY LET'S THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE!!" (negative-positive). From my observant 3rd Party eye I simply see it as it is, not if it is "negative" or "positive". If you are overly optimistic OP, then everything should be positive, a progress and process that spawns forward new ideas and cool ideas, bad ideas and morbid ideas. Stupid ideas, intelligent ideas.

 

I feel that this discussion forum isn't only about Project Eternity, but it stretches out further to what we would like to see in a game like this. Even if 99/100 of all of these threads go into the trashcan I trust this company to make a great game and I am sure they will anyways <3 :D

 

That's what she said:

"Project Eternity Speculation & Discussion"

[rjshae]

It's only overreaction if you start posting USING CAPS or GIANT FONTS! with different colors!

 

Usually an indicator of a single-issue fanatic.

[Vampero]

No, I'll tell you it's full of something I don't want.

I feel ya ! Your going down that route because you feel like your not winning and I won't back down.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

It's only overreaction if you start posting USING CAPS or GIANT FONTS! with different colors!

 

Usually an indicator of a single-issue fanatic.

 

 

...ouch...

 

 

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Vampero]

What's wrong with making the game enjoyable for all types of game players that love RPG's ???

You can't ****ing make a game that pleases everyone, that's wrong. Damn I hate that attitude. You know what happens then? Dragon Age 2 happens, and Oblivion happens.

 

So you're saying make the game into a encrypted language learning curve ?

 

I would like a game that takes it's cues from the Infinity Engine games and similar types of cRPGs (Arcanum, Fallout, etc). Mainly games that the folks at Obsidian were involved with in the past. On top of that, I would also like to see how Obsidian could use Project Eternity to showcase new and interesting ideas/mechanics for the genre.

 

As a result, I'm perfectly happy to sacrifice many things taken for granted in modern RPGs that don't add all that much: cinematics, full VA, AAA graphics, romances, and mass market appeal.

 

That is what Obsidian promised and that is what I'm hoping for.

 

Why is that desire so foreign to you?

Now I understand what you want. I like the fallout way myself.

[evdk]

I feel ya ! Your going down that route because you feel like your not winning and I won't back down.

No, I'm going down this road because the glass is currently full with Sawyer's ideas.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Pidesco
again.

[Majek]

Hey mods, stop these n00bs and their quote pyramids!!!!! <_>

[Vampero]

No, I'm going down this road because the glass is currently full with Sawyer's ideas.

Lovely ! Enjoy your drink .

[evdk]

I believe the crux of this thing is that I (and many other people) will not drink that.

[Wintersong]

Is it really necessary to quote the whole conversation? It's not that difficult to edit the quotes, you know.

[Jasede]

It's easy to call us argumentative, angry old-school RPG fans entitled when you don't realize just how rarely our tastes are catered to. Every single modern RPG is made for a wide audience- a mass of people that can't be bothered to read the manual, get stuck at a tough fight. They want to make games appealing to the widest possible audience because it makes sense to do so financially. If that means some older fans don't buy these games it's a small price to pay in return for the wider casual audience that has no problem with level-scaling, hand-holding, tutorials or cooldowns.

 

But here's the thing. This project was supposed to harken back to the Infinite Engine games. In people like me, this stoked the fires of hope. Could it be? Could they make an RPG for the audience that RPGs originally were made for, the audience that nurtured them from their infancy? A game that doesn't compromise like so many modern RPGs do? Yes, it seemed that way.

 

But the more we read from Sawyer, the more they confirm things like level-scaling and cooldowns the more that fire is extinguished.

 

 

Look at this way: this game is a glimmer of hope, alongside Wasteland 2. And then someone takes a dump all over that spark of light, off in the distance. They make this project more like Dragon's Age and Mass Effect and all those other casual games. As if the casual audience didn't already have thousands of games to chose from! But what about us? The RPG fans who bought and loved those old games? When will a game be made for us? It's so bad most of us are making their own games...

 

Why can't you let us have this? Just once?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Jasede

[LadyCrimson]

I personally see "inspired by these classic IE games" to not actually necessarily mean "exactly like." Thus emotional expectations should be tempered with a bit of rational caution, imo.

 

I don't want to see "cooldowns" (edit: don't like them even in action-games) but I don't have an automatic depression/anger problem with certain types of/levels of scaling. I don't like Morrowind's type of scaling at all, but FNV was fine/tolerable to a point I hardly noticed it as scaling, personally.

Edited October 2, 2012 by LadyCrimson

[C2B]

It's easy to call us argumentative, angry old-school RPG fans entitled when you don't realize just how rarely our tastes are catered to. Every single modern RPG is made for a wide audience- a mass of people that can't be bothered to read the manual, get stuck at a tough fight. They want to make games appealing to the widest possible audience because it makes sense to do so financially. If that means some older fans don't buy these games it's a small price to pay in return for the wider casual audience that has no problem with level-scaling, hand-holding, tutorials or cooldowns.

 

But here's the thing. This project was supposed to harken back to the Infinite Engine games. In people like me, this stoked the fires of hope. Could it be? Could they make an RPG for the audience that RPGs originally were made for, the audience that nurtured them from their infancy? A game that doesn't compromise like so many modern RPGs do? Yes, it seemed that way.

 

But the more we read from Sawyer, the more they confirm things like level-scaling and cooldowns the more that fire is extinguished.

 

 

Look at this way: this game is a glimmer of hope, alongside Wasteland 2. And then someone takes a dump all over that spark of light, off in the distance. They make this project more like Dragon's Age and Mass Effect and all those other casual games. As if the casual audience didn't already have thousands of games to chose from! But what about us? The RPG fans who bought and loved those old games? When will a game be made for us? It's so bad most of us are making their own games...

 

Why can't you let us have this? Just once?

 

You are certainly entitled to voice your opinion. And it's great (I don't agree really with the OP that much even though he probably meant to calm minds). Just don't overreact before we don't know how it actually works. Which we really, really don't. Expect for making assumptions and comparisons with games these people haven't even worked on.

 

I have to say 3 things though:

 

A: The hardcore audience disagrees a lot even about combat in older games. So, should Obsidian really copy 100%?

 

B: Connected to A actually. Infinity engine games aren't really beloved because of their systems. In fact they are more heavily critizized than most other rpg combat systems. Especially on the codex. (Rightfully IMO, due to the problems arising translating D&D to RTWP) So, I don't really get your first point there.

 

C It's Sawyer. He's not negative to taking parts of modern game design and you guys know that (and argued in the past about it). Yet, there was still the Deathclaw Quarry. Yet, there was still F:NV. What did you expect?

Edited October 2, 2012 by C2B

[Jasede]

My first point can be explained as this:

"Sure, the mechanics in the IE games are garbage, but compared to modern RPGs they're much better. Even though IE games already were dumbed down they're still a lot better than what we get today. I'd rather take the IE games than modern games, even though I'd even rather play something like KotC or ToEE but that's too much to hope for these days."

[Starwars]

It's the internet!

 

But I mean, kickstarter is interesting in some ways. It puts pressure on Obsidian to try and bring in input from the backers as much as possible. But it also demands a certain something from the backers themselves, namely that you need to understand that a game developer is not designing a game 100% for you even if you happen to pledge a million dollars. You need to accept certain things that will *not* mesh with your personal expectations.

One will hope that this information will be available before a kickstarter ends so that one can withdraw the pledge if there is a dealbreaker. But... there is no 100% guarantee on this. Again, nature of a kickstarter game that is starting development with help of backers.

 

There are now 50k+ backers of this project. No matter what Obsidian does, they're gonna piss people off who feel they are "entitled" or whatever. Everytime that Obsidian looks to advance or change something that is considered part of the "old-school design", people are gonna throw hissy fits without first even considering that this *may* be a good change. Or even if it's not entirely to your taste (like realtime w pause for me personally), it may still be worth giving a chance. A) because it may surprise you if Obsidian can make it work well, and B) because there are plenty of other features in this game that may still make this a really kick-ass experience.