Overreaction theater!

[Madzookeeper]

and i wondered why i haven't been posting on the forums much... stuff like the level scaling confirmed thread is a pretty good example of it. people, think for just a second. why did we back this project in the first place? because we're trusting this particular group to make a game, because they've done it before. and they've not only done it before, but they've done a great job at it. they've also learned a lot along the way since those halcyon days, which would suggest that they're even better prepared to make a great game. so why don't we actually do what we did when we had next to no information and basically a bunch of names, game and developer, thrown at us? trust them.

 

that's really all i have to say about anything right now. but think about it, and try to not just react to information that you receive. try to think about what it means before you post. emotional responses aren't going to help anything, and might make this whole thing a big mess. and i don't think anyone here wants that.

 

 

and maybe if you have to overreact, or just react to something in a negative way... keep it in here so it doesn't clutter up discussion, or make it so that we end up talking about it for pages trying to clear up a misunderstanding or misread word? come back with a thought out comment and concern. not "o noes! the sky is falling!"

Edited October 2, 2012 by Madzookeeper

[Volourn]

Welcome to the internet. You new?

[Madzookeeper]

no, just trying to be overly optimistic that people can use a smidgeon of common sense. maybe.

[Aedelric]

I think a topic about people being drama queens is in itself an overreaction.

 

You may not like people overreacting, but you can not stop it, nor is such things uncommon as Volourn said.

[Hornet85]

I'm glad you brought this up. Its pretty much the feeling I get too.

 

Everytime the dev reveal something, there will be someone marching in chanting I don't want this and that. Eww this hate that. Just look at the latest update. People are hating even on crafting items. We don't even know the details yet.

 

Obsidian do not need us to tell them how to make the game. They have already decided what to do, I don't care how much you dislike it. Either you accept it or you don't and move on.

[Madzookeeper]

i made this thread because i know the internet, and i was hoping to maybe cut back on it a smidgeon. probably a hopeless thing to do, but if no one tries we'll never know.

 

not gonna argue about it or debate it. use the thread or don't, tis your choice. and everyone reading it.

[kjrubberducky]

I think that these kind of responses come from prior experiences. A lot of people have followed well known and acclaimed developers and franchises, loving the deep mechanics and stories, and ended up getting burned when the next game gets the triple-A, corporate approved, shiny-but-shallow treatment.

 

Now, Obsidian comes along and says, "We're gonna do it right!"

and there was much rejoicing

And so they pin all their high hopes and trampled dreams on them.

 

Now they are so heavily emotionally invested in Project Eternity that anything seen as a deviation from what their own "perfect" game entails, is met with flames and bile, because they aren't trusting Obsidian to make just a good game, or even a great game, but the penultimate story-driven tactical combat cRPG.... and that's probably not going to happen.

[Madzookeeper]

in all honesty, just getting people to think about what you just said at all rubber ducky was pretty much the entire point of this thread. if it helps tone down that even with one person, then it served its purpose. will it do that? probably wishful thinking. but who knows.

[Hornet85]

I think that these kind of responses come from prior experiences. A lot of people have followed well known and acclaimed developers and franchises, loving the deep mechanics and stories, and ended up getting burned when the next game gets the triple-A, corporate approved, shiny-but-shallow treatment.

 

Now, Obsidian comes along and says, "We're gonna do it right!"

and there was much rejoicing

And so they pin all their high hopes and trampled dreams on them.

 

Now they are so heavily emotionally invested in Project Eternity that anything seen as a deviation from what their own "perfect" game entails, is met with flames and bile, because they aren't trusting Obsidian to make just a good game, or even a great game, but the penultimate story-driven tactical combat cRPG.... and that's probably not going to happen.

 

The problem is many people often fail to see the big picture. The biggest problem comes from the fact that everyone thinks they know what makes a great game, when in actual fact, they are just preaching what they want. What makes a great game is subjective, there's no any way around this. Different people have different opinion on what makes a game great, and they are not facts. There is no way Obsidian can satisfy everyone to every little details. But that doesn't mean they cannot make a game that's great to the majority of people.

 

This is why Obsidian have to make their own decision on what direction they want to go with. If they say it will be real time combat, then it will be real time combat. If a person doesn't like this, then that's unfortunate but no one is forced to back it.

[D3xter]

Level Scaling confirmed? What? WHERE?

[Majek]

no, just trying to be overly optimistic that people can use a smidgeon of common sense. maybe.

people are stupid. an individual might posses some common sense but that's a rare occurrence on forums. Most are functionally illiterate too.

[qstoffe]

why did we back this project in the first place?

 

Because I wanted an "old school" RPG as compared to the current RPGs with too much streamlined mechanics.

Edited October 2, 2012 by qstoffe

[Madzookeeper]

why did we back this project in the first place?

 

Because I wanted an "old school" RPG as compared to the current RPGs with too much streamlined mechanics.

 

partially. you ultimately backed it because you trust the devs. or because you want to.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Madzookeeper

[Gorth]

With old school rpg's seems to come old school temper tantrums. I'm not sure it's much different from the old BIS/Interplay boards (I wasn't around on the old BIS boards, following stuff on UseNet instead)?

 

[Madzookeeper]

@ gorth

 

sadly, it probably isn't any different. probably the single biggest problem with internet anonymity really. people that wouldn't throw tantrums/rant illogically/etc in person feel free to do it on here because it's not real. but it does still impact people, and in most cases far more than if they did it IRL. but again, it's not real so it doesn't matter. i'm not distressing people, i'm distressing text on a screen.

 

*shakes head*

 

there's a reason i don't frequent most forums online. that would be a very large part of it.

[Luckmann]

And you can't capitalize or punctuate properly.

[Data4]

Years ago, there were discrete genres in gaming. You had your RPGs, your shooters, your adventures, simulations, sports, strategy, etc., etc. Each genre catered to a specific type of gamer, and gamers had many options to choose from. Then development budgets increased. Such increases meant that more sales had to be made to recoup the capital. To increase sales, a wider audience needed to be attracted. What if we incorporated shooter mechanics in our RPG? Then shooter fans would buy it! What if we put in multiplayer features with competitive modes in it? Then the fighting game fans would buy it! What if we gave the players trophies in the form of achievements that they could share online for bragging rights? Then the dudebros who, lacking any real sense of self worth, would be able to wave their e-peens around!

 

It would be glorious!

 

Except... it lead to mediocrity. RPGs in particular, once a domain of the... perhaps nerdier, geekier set who enjoyed a more cerebral gameplay experience... turned into yet another mishmash of wide market appeal catering to the lowest common denominator (usually some vague descriptor like "fun" with fuzzy metrics). So with the promise that veteran developers were going to go back to the old school and deliver a more pure RPG the likes of which haven't been seen in a long time, we flocked.

 

And we're protective. We don't want compromise. We don't want to see the game adopt modern bad habits. So when things like Romance or Multiplayer or Achievements or modern socio-political issues rear their ugly heads, some of us attack with fierce determination. We feel like this game shouldn't be all things to all people. It should be a game for RPG nerds who fondly remember those old cheeto-stained character sheets and 20 sided die coated in pizza grease. It should be exclusive. It should treat idiots like idiots. It should boldly declare that "You must be THIS intelligent to ride!".

 

Overreaction? No. It's necessary vigilance.

[septembervirgin]

I DON'T LIKE THIS!

 

I'M GOING TO SUE THE INTERNET!

[Grone]

With old school rpg's seems to come old school temper tantrums.

 

Old school RPGs do not contain level-scaling* and cooldown-mechanics.

 

It is the worst kind of straw man to answer legitimate arguments raised against this by calling it temper tantrums.

 

Remember that cool Kickstarter video that begins with citing all the IE games as inspiration? For each step this project takes with its combat system, it's looking less and less like the IE games. That is a problem - a problem with marketing and a problem with substance. I am sure as hell going to voice my opinion on it - not because I'm throwing a ****ing temper tantrum, but because I hope to save a game that could have revitalized a genre, instead of doing just another Dragon Age.

 

And, FYI, I actually liked Dragon Age, but it's no where near as good as the IE games. Level scaling and cooldown mechanics were a big part of the reason for that.

 

* Well, a very few of them do, and it sucks there, too

Edited October 2, 2012 by Grunker

[TrashMan]

i made this thread because i know the internet, and i was hoping to maybe cut back on it a smidgeon. probably a hopeless thing to do, but if no one tries we'll never know.

 

not gonna argue about it or debate it. use the thread or don't, tis your choice. and everyone reading it.

 

Ain't gonna happen. People dont' have a tendency to restrain thmselves. They need additional incentive. Usually a punitive measure.

I've been on internet forums that are cvil and organized - mostly because the mods/admins had a 0 tolerrance policy for BS, but weren't total natzis either.

 

 

While voicing displeasure might be premature - these little snippets of information is all we got - people rightfully fear the game will turn out to be different than promissed.

 

 

We should trust the devs?

Nicely said, but plenty of people trusted the devs and ended up with a big bag of nothing but dissapointment.

I guess many feel it's better to err on the side of caution and voice despleasure of a certain feature, rather than risk that feature getting included and ruining the game for them.

 

Let's face it - all of us want for Obsiadian to make a perfect game. And all of us would gladly campaign to get our vision of the perfect game trough.

Edited October 2, 2012 by TrashMan

[lolaldanee]

people tend to overreact... a lot

and they tend to only see black and white, as usual, it's either eternal doom or heaven with every single decision

i can't say how much i agree with the OP

[cyberarmy]

"Internet People" are generaly too much emotional and sensetive on small things therefore they cannot see the big picture. Most of them are naive enough to believe there will be perfect products just build for themselves and every otherones options are invalid.

They usually use unnecessary, harsh, overprotective tones while try to correct "The wrong ones on internet"

 

That thing usually hard to understand is, it's impossible to please everyone and if anyone try that they fail pretty hard.

[Madzookeeper]

With old school rpg's seems to come old school temper tantrums.

 

Old school RPGs do not contain level-scaling* and cooldown-mechanics.

 

It is the worst kind of straw man to answer legitimate arguments raised against this by calling it temper tantrums.

 

Remember that cool Kickstarter video that begins with citing all the IE games as inspiration? For each step this project takes with its combat system, it's looking less and less like the IE games. That is a problem - a problem with marketing and a problem with substance. I am sure as hell going to voice my opinion on it - not because I'm throwing a ****ing temper tantrum, but because I hope to save a game that could have revitalized a genre, instead of doing just another Dragon Age

 

* Well, a very few of them do, and it sucks there, too

 

i'm not calling reasoned comments or discussion temper tantrums. didn't use the word tantrum anywhere for that matter. but people HAVE overreacted to a number of things, and that's seen by the arguments and personal attacks in the thread i mentioned in particular. it's just kind of sad. could it be discussed seriously? yep. but it sure isn't.

 

 

And you can't capitalize or punctuate properly.

 

it's a choice i made long ago. don't really want to bother with it unless i'm typing something really long.

[KhaineGB]

And we're protective. We don't want compromise. We don't want to see the game adopt modern bad habits. So when things like Romance or Multiplayer or Achievements or modern socio-political issues rear their ugly heads, some of us attack with fierce determination. We feel like this game shouldn't be all things to all people. It should be a game for RPG nerds who fondly remember those old cheeto-stained character sheets and 20 sided die coated in pizza grease. It should be exclusive. It should treat idiots like idiots. It should boldly declare that "You must be THIS intelligent to ride!".

 

You were almost spot on... except for this bit.

 

I've played Pen'n'Paper games since I was 14. I always had DM's who were much more into the "raid dungeon, smash stuff, get loot, don't die" type of gaming. I've always wanted the more personal character development type of gaming... which, yes, meant my characters would form friendships, bonds and possibly even find love and eventually retire with a mountain of gold and a family.

 

Admittedly most of the time they ended up being dragon-roasted, but that's beside the point.

 

Some of us old school type RPG'ers do actually want a few of the things you've mentioned. I would love multi-player, but I'd want it LAN only... not online. Why? Because some of the best fun I've had in RPG's was playing NWN2 via LAN with my other half. That's an option I would kill for. Achievements can sod off... really don't care about those... but I do want character development (yes, including the possibility of romance... and a properly done one, not a mills & boon one, thanks) and the ability to play with others locally.

[Madzookeeper]

i made this thread because i know the internet, and i was hoping to maybe cut back on it a smidgeon. probably a hopeless thing to do, but if no one tries we'll never know.

 

not gonna argue about it or debate it. use the thread or don't, tis your choice. and everyone reading it.

 

Ain't gonna happen. People dont' have a tendency to restrain thmselves. They need additional incentive. Usually a punitive measure.

I've been on internet forums that are cvil and organized - mostly because the mods/admins had a 0 tolerrance policy for BS, but weren't total natzis either.

 

 

While voicing displeasure might be premature - these little snippets of information is all we got - people rightfully fear the game will turn out to be different than promissed.

 

 

We should trust the devs?

Nicely said, but plenty of people trusted the devs and ended up with a big bag of nothing but dissapointment.

I guess many feel it's better to err on the side of caution and voice despleasure of a certain feature.

 

i'd say that this is a very different situation and type of trust than the typical situation which has always involved a publisher. the devs put a pretty significant amount of trust in us by coming to us to get funding. and they've shown that trust by talking to us and answering questions (when they can/have answers) and by taking suggestions to discuss later on. just seemed like we should show a bit of that same trust back in this rather unprecedented situation.