The "Boob Armor" and the whole Issue of objectification

[Director]

Don't worry, uncle Sawyer got you covered: http://www.formsprin...353112176255286

No possibility for boobs in Project Eternity, it would foul the sanctity of this place and be all against neo-feminism ideologies and all that.

 

Cheers - and boo! Still hoping for evil mages in evil slinky dresses then.

[nikolokolus]

The problem I have with this politically correct crap is that it's ok for women to have their things that are made for them, but it's not ok for men to have their things.

 

So is this one vote for armor that enhances and highlights your character's dong?

Edited October 2, 2012 by nikolokolus

[Archmage Silver]

The problem I have with this politically correct crap is that it's ok for women to have their things that are made for them, but it's not ok for men to have their things.

 

So is this one vote for armor that enhances and highlights your character's dong?

LOL for real. Good one, nik.

[Hypevosa]

there could totally be men who have their codpiece made to be insanely large, matching what's underneath or not lol

[Monte Carlo]

I want the Codpiece of Vecna.

[LadyCrimson]

I've posted in other threads and I'll say it again here: for me it's about having options. These types of games allow one to don different armors/clothes and have it show up, to one degree or another, on the character. Therefore, I want options, and I want the options to feel fair. That is, if you want to wear a sexy chain mail top and thong that you found because you think it looks awesome, great, but it shouldn't give you the same AC protection in the game as full plate mail would. Or if you want to wear a frilly cloth nightie, then it shouldn't give you any AC at all, just charisma, luck, charm, something along those lines.

 

I have nothing against "boob plate" or sexy female (or male) clothing being one of a number of options in games per se, even if I think it's too overboard much of the time. I'm not personally looking for the ultimate in reality, all the time. I mean, frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing more silly sexy male options. Most male armor in games is so all-encompassing I can't even see their face anymore, let alone the shape of their butt. But I don't want those to be the only options.

 

Options and balance. A mixture of fantasy and reality, both.

[Ieo]

The problem I have with this politically correct crap is that it's ok for women to have their things that are made for them, but it's not ok for men to have their things.

 

Utter nonsense. Armour made for men has always looked pretty darn good.

[Director]

there could totally be men who have their codpiece made to be insanely large, matching what's underneath or not lol

 

This is also 100% Historically Accurate and Realistic - for the people that seem so concerned about that.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Director

[Hypevosa]

I want the Codpiece of Vecna.

 

it hides secrets... so I don't think that's a good thing lol

[NOK222]

there could totally be men who have their codpiece made to be insanely large, matching what's underneath or not lol

 

This is also 100% Historically Accurate and Realistic - for the people that seem so concerned about that.

 

These attempts at compromise would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that this particular male fan service has barely appeared in fiction alongside the female fan service, boob armor and chain mail bikinis.

 

So this cod piece argument falls apart.

[JeremyR]

To me it's really just a suspension of disbelief issue - if someone is going to wear armor, they should wear practical armor that does what armor is supposed to do, not be a fashion statement.

 

Sure, fancy and ridiculous armor might have a reason to exist, like for parades and such. But not for fighting.

[Director]

I've posted in other threads and I'll say it again here: for me it's about having options. These types of games allow one to don different armors/clothes and have it show up, to one degree or another, on the character. Therefore, I want options, and I want the options to feel fair. That is, if you want to wear a sexy chain mail top and thong that you found because you think it looks awesome, great, but it shouldn't give you the same AC protection in the game as full plate mail would. Or if you want to wear a frilly cloth nightie, then it shouldn't give you any AC at all, just charisma, luck, charm, something along those lines.

 

I have nothing against "boob plate" or sexy female (or male) clothing being one of a number of options in games per se, even if I think it's too overboard much of the time. I'm not personally looking for the ultimate in reality, all the time. I mean, frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing more silly sexy male options. Most male armor in games is so all-encompassing I can't even see their face anymore, let alone the shape of their butt. But I don't want those to be the only options.

 

Options and balance. A mixture of fantasy and reality, both.

 

Yeah - the in game models will probably only show a difference between leather / chain / plate / robe / cloak / helm - with maybe 3 or 4 styles of each.

I doubt it'll represent the exact gear you equip to a great degree, (although I look forward to being proved wrong)

 

So we're basically just arguing over what the character portraits / NPC portraits will look like.

[Stun]

 

So, I went through my Baldur's Gate portraits folder and pulled out some examples of "boob armor." Don't see anything wrong with any of these.

 

Well, except for the fact that none of these portraits are from Baldurs Gate.

 

But on a serious note, I thought the whole discussion about "maturity" and "realism" would have ceased shortly after we were shown the Planescape Torment pics. Which, by themselves, manage to prove two things:

 

1) That you can have Revealing/Boob armor in a game, and that game can still maintain all of its maturity.

2) That Realism becomes quite the red herring in a game who's setting is so deliberately non-realistic in the first place.

 

Personally, I see this issue as much ado about nothing. We're not dealing with Bioware. We're not talking about a company who's got a history of trying to use sex appeal to sell their games to hormonally charged teenage boys. We're dealing with Obsidian, a company that has always done their games in good taste. People here are grossly over-reacting.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Stun

[Monte Carlo]

^ What stun said. I don't want to be rude to the OP but this one has been, literally, flogged to death.

[D3xter]

So is this one vote for armor that enhances and highlights your character's dong?

Just imagine the possibilities...

 

 

I wonder what kind of enchantments could be applied.

[Godwin]

I think all of the the posts on this thread can be summed up as this. If I want to pleasure myself I'll go to one of many great free adult sites on the net, I really don't need it in this game.

[Volourn]

"I've posted in other threads and I'll say it again here: for me it's about having options. These types of games allow one to don different armors/clothes and have it show up, to one degree or another, on the character. Therefore, I want options, and I want the options to feel fair. That is, if you want to wear a sexy chain mail top and thong that you found because you think it looks awesome, great, but it shouldn't give you the same AC protection in the game as full plate mail would. Or if you want to wear a frilly cloth nightie, then it shouldn't give you any AC at all, just charisma, luck, charm, something along those lines.

 

I have nothing against "boob plate" or sexy female (or male) clothing being one of a number of options in games per se, even if I think it's too overboard much of the time. I'm not personally looking for the ultimate in reality, all the time. I mean, frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing more silly sexy male options. Most male armor in games is so all-encompassing I can't even see their face anymore, let alone the shape of their butt. But I don't want those to be the only options.

 

Options and balance. A mixture of fantasy and reality, both. "

 

Lady crimson wins.

 

 

"I think all of the the posts on this thread can be summed up as this. If I want to pleasure myself I'll go to one of many great free adult sites on the net, I really don't need it in this game. "

 

You showed your immaturity. Not everyone who wnats 'boob armour' masturbates to video games. I neve rhave. Don't be a toolbag. You ain't cool enough to be a Codexer so don't even try Prestidigitator.

[NOK222]

So, I went through my Baldur's Gate portraits folder and pulled out some examples of "boob armor." Don't see anything wrong with any of these.

 

Well, except for the fact that none of these portraits are from Baldurs Gate.

 

But on a serious note, I thought the whole discussion about "maturity" and "realism" would have ceased shortly after we were shown the Planescape Torment pics. Which, by themselves, manage to prove two things:

 

1) That you can have Revealing/Boob armor in a game, and that game can still maintain all of its maturity.

2) That Realism becomes quite the red herring in a game who's setting is so deliberately non-realistic in the first place.

 

Personally, I see this issue as much ado about nothing. We're not dealing with Bioware. We're not talking about a company who's got a history of trying to use sex appeal to sell their games to hormonally charged teenage boys. We're dealing with Obsidian, a company that has always done their games in good taste. People here are grossly over-reacting.

 

Dude except I have little issue with leather armor or mage robes, as long as it's not too insane. Did you see my earlier posts about rangers and rouges?

 

My issue is on the practical of plate or mail armor on women. I make a case for no "boob-plate", no unnecessary things that make the armor unrealistic, and no chain mail bikinis. I said fan service, sexyness and hot scenes are fine at it's moments. Those moments aren't on the front lines of party battle with cleavage armor and mail skirt and panties.

 

Once again on the cod pieces, that particular historic fact has been ignored by developers for years, there's no need to bring this here just to try to make a point on double standards.

Edited October 2, 2012 by NKKKK

[Hypevosa]

lol that last one looked like the pringles guy! XD

 

But I think it's totally fair to have outrageous cod pieces, it would be funny.

[Stun]

Dude except I have little issue with leather armor or mage robes, as long as it's not too insane. Did you see my earlier posts about rangers and rouges?

 

My issue is on the practical of plate or mail armor on women.

Sure. I think we all get the "It's not practical!" argument (since we've been beaten over the heads with it repeatedly in the past 2 threads about this topic.) But personally, I don't see the point of demanding aesthetic practicality. Nor do I expect my RPG makers go back to school and get their PHDs in European History before daring to make an RPG that contains armor, or whatever. (if the armor bestows decent in-game protection, does it really matter that much that it isn't 100% historically accurate in its appearance?) Because that all seems like pointless nit-picking to me. Not much different than those annoying scenery pedants, who bitch that their game doesn't accurately portray water physics, or that trees don't look "realistic enough"

Edited October 2, 2012 by Stun

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah - the in game models will probably only show a difference between leather / chain / plate / robe / cloak / helm - with maybe 3 or 4 styles of each.

I doubt it'll represent the exact gear you equip to a great degree, (although I look forward to being proved wrong)

 

So we're basically just arguing over what the character portraits / NPC portraits will look like.

There's that too. I've seen some "isometric" games with some pretty detailed costume changes, however - certainly noticeable if they're wearing skimpy or non-skimpy, for example - so I know it's at least in a realm of possibility. Whether that'll be the route P.E. takes isn't entirely known yet. And I certainly would rather they put time/energy into other aspects of the game than intricate clothing/armor models, if it came down to a choice of one or the other.

 

Edit: and if it is largely about portraits, then the ability to use one's own portraits ala the older games solves everything, yes? One can use a pic that you want.

2nd edit: but my point about frilly nighties not giving AC etc. remains, even if you can barely tell you're wearing a sexy nightgown in-game.

Edited October 2, 2012 by LadyCrimson

[Blam]

My thought about a lot of the women looking sexy is that usually all the guys are not too bad looking either if you actually pay attention to the full picture. I"ve heard this discussion before in reguards to the skin hugging suits that female superheros wear, with their objectors being all the while oblivious to the fact that almost every male superhero ever has worn a skintight outfit that doesn't leave much to the imagination. Batman even has muscles carved into his armor, and in at least one movie with nipples on his armor for no reason other than sexual appeal. (The one with George Clooney)

Dr. Manhattan even goes full monty for some of The Watchmen (even if his dong is CG) and we find noone really cares.

 

I think a lot of this is is projected sexism from people who ignore men and who only focus on women's sexuality. Maybe it's just safer to make it clear that each sex has optional sexy clothes they can wear. Maybe even call the sexy clothing the same thing so it's clear. I do agree though if it's not possible to opt out of having sexy clothing but we have to make a distinction between sexy models wearing it and the clothing being flattering.

 

Having said that, the picture at the start of the post from Mass Effect does seem rediculous. I wouldn't have minded not having the chest pressed flat with armor like she would in combat gear, the point would be that futuristic armor is form fitting and doesn't always work using plates. However the shoulders just beat the crap out of that idea. Giant armored shoulders over form fitting bewbage. Yup, that's pretty bad. Like her shoulders are the part of her she's worried about protecting. Unless those shoulders are shield generators it's a bit over the top for futuristic military fashion.

 

If there are sexy outfits, please at least make them suitably unprotective and not some kind of tassles of arrow deflection setup. Maybe even add a charisma bonus and be up front about it. It might actually make for a good example if some of the "unrestrictive" male outfits were clearly meant to be sexy. There's more than one way of not being sexist and they all involve treating everyone the same way.

[lightmaguz]

You're asking for realism in a game where through pure force of will, a few ingredients and words I will very likely go a-roasting kobolds along the road. And realism based on earth's history nonetheless. Far as I remember from ancient and medieval history classes we have rarely, if only very few times, seem female warrior cultures on Earth when in fantasy settings it's usually normal. Why would we have female specific armour at all when in medieval times generally the women were not considered fit to fight and most of the ones who went to battle were poor people with no other choice and no armor(or at least not made for them.) anyway? Generally, unrealistic as it is, women fight in fantasy settings this already breaks female realism when compared to Earth's paradigm completely, but this is only vaguely based on Earth isn't it?

 

In a fantasy setting with a sense of equality between the sexes and no defined roles it's not as far-fetched as it looks, the women don't want or have to look like men like the Order of the Hatchet or Joan of Arc, perhaps they can even be proud to show their form in battle, another detail about realism is how cumbersome a full suit of plate actually is under certain circumstances even more(ask the knights of Agincourt.), this is usually not portrayed realistically and then how much more practical mail and only a few pieces, if any at all, of plate were in battle. If we start asking for realism from any part of the game it turns into a goddamn snowball until it becomes a medieval war simulator with only male characters and no magic.

 

 

ps - no not unnecessary sex scenes again... but if they're in why would they have to be meaningful and healthy anyway?

[nikolokolus]

Armor is typically meant to cushion a blow and turn a blade. Boob-plate is just one more thing for a sword to get hung up on and thus potentially failing to turn a blade.

 

Sounds like ceremonial armor at best.

[Gibbscape_Torment]

WHO GIVES A ****. Authors can take WHATEVER artistic freedom they want with THEIR game. Realism can go jump for all i care.

 

This is a fictional universe for godsake. PE is going for a realistic approach, and that's great. But if you wish to extend this sentiment to every game out there, then i cannot disagree more forcefully.