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The "Boob Armor" and the whole Issue of objectification


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#1
NKKKK

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There's nothing wrong with creating attractive pretty characters, there's nothing wrong with showing deep meaningful sex scenes between two people. Hell, there's nothing really wrong with fan service. But when writing sci-fi, high fantasy, steampunk, or other genres of the such. When presenting females in combat, practicality over looks matter.

Posted Image Marine Women in real life
Posted Image Fictional "Future Marine"
Was the boob armor necessary there? No, it really wasn't.

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with the showing the female form. Even real life dress uniforms, which is supposed to show off the attractiveness of both sexes, don't tighten it around the chest area for women in such a ridiculous manner, much less combat uniforms. Trust me, I'm an actual veteran.

I'm glad you changed the boob armor, you guys might actually be the first to do such a thing, and not try to objectify the female form in such a ridiculous and unpractical manner. Sexiness is fine when the situation calls for it, not when wearing full body armor in combat.

I'm off course taking into account armor wearing classes as I don't know how I feel about casters or roguish/thieves yet.

Edited by NKKKK, 01 October 2012 - 04:18 PM.

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#2
Tigranes

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It would be nice to do without boob armour, as I've seen little to suggest it is historical or practical in any way.

That said, I'm mostly happy to avoid thongs and bare midriffs. (Besides, if they did have bare midriffs, you'd be seeing a six-pack...)
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#3
NerdBoner

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ugh, people make such a big deal about this...there are a million and one more relevant issues to be concerned with than whether or not an NPC's **** can fit into her breast plate or not.

#4
Ieo

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Discussion of interest: Armour and weapon designs - a plea.


I cannot take under/inappropriately-dressed female NPCs/companions or even a female PC seriously (in context--i.e. most of the time in a game). The stupid gear actually requires just enough suspension of disbelief to break my immersion--every time I see such a thing, the only thing that occurs to me is "this character was designed for the more juvenile male gamers, I don't want to be associated with them." :p

Edited by Ieo, 01 October 2012 - 04:27 PM.

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#5
Ink Blot

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Yeah, I'd rather they not play off the adolescent male hormone stimulus and just go with... sensible? practical? armor designs.
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#6
nikolokolus

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It's comforting to know that this topic won't go away.
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#7
licketysplit

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I must be at the BSN.
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#8
Ink Blot

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I must be at the BSN.


lol.

#9
NKKKK

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It would be nice to do without boob armour, as I've seen little to suggest it is historical or practical in any way.

That said, I'm mostly happy to avoid thongs and bare midriffs. (Besides, if they did have bare midriffs, you'd be seeing a six-pack...)


As a historian also, I can say probably not, first off women combatants wearing medieval armor (the one we are taking into account here) was rare to begin with. Even the Order of the Hatchet, an actual order of women knights, masqueraded as Men. The point of being, knights or warriors were to be like men, not women. Joan of Arc wore men clothes.

Going to Japan, there were women samurai or "Onna Bugeisha", if they were ever in battle, I'm pretty they were dressed to survive not to make attract male gaze.

I can't ever say for certainty that there was ever such armor for the woman body in history, but it if did exist, it was rare and probably unsuccessful.

I must be at the BSN.


Except I'm a guy addressing a serious issue and not a fangirl who also wants male fanservice (which is BSN)

Edited by NKKKK, 01 October 2012 - 04:32 PM.

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#10
Hypevosa

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It's clear that it isn't something that should be the common theme for armors, but to say that there would never be a female that uses her sexuality as a strength for weak minded opponents is silly. A rogue who gets into trouble often but knows exactly how to wiggle her way out of it? A sorceress that specializes in charm and illusion spells and has used this in conjunction with her own seductive features to get money for magical research or to get into a position of power within a kingdom?

Not all characters should be sexualized, this is not DOA, but there are reasons some might choose to abuse their physical form where it gives them an advantage. If the character's personality supports such a thing, I have no quarrel with it, but I agree, a noble female paladin should not be flashing cleavage or anything close.
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#11
NKKKK

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It's clear that it isn't something that should be the common theme for armors, but to say that there would never be a female that uses her sexuality as a strength for weak minded opponents is silly. A rogue who gets into trouble often but knows exactly how to wiggle her way out of it? A sorceress that specializes in charm and illusion spells and has used this in conjunction with her own seductive features to get money for magical research or to get into a position of power within a kingdom?

Not all characters should be sexualized, this is not DOA, but there are reasons some might choose to abuse their physical form where it gives them an advantage. If the character's personality supports such a thing, I have no quarrel with it, but I agree, a noble female paladin should not be flashing cleavage or anything close.


I agree which is why I didn't comment on rogues or mages, but to armor wearing soldier women.
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#12
Rostere

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Discussion of interest: Armour and weapon designs - a plea.


I cannot take under/inappropriately-dressed female NPCs/companions or even a female PC seriously (in context--i.e. most of the time in a game). The stupid gear actually requires just enough suspension of disbelief to break my immersion--every time I see such a thing, the only thing that occurs to me is "this character was designed for the more juvenile male gamers, I don't want to be associated with them." :p

This is exactly what I feel. I want a serious RPG, not fantasy- themed softporn for 15- year olds who have never seen a naked woman in their entire lives. It's so tragic when games almost subconsciously repeat the same silly, immature sexual objectification of women because it's "always been done that way" in the male- dominated field of computer games. When people put thier thoughts to it, I think most would prefer a realistic portrayal of women in games.
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#13
Malcador

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I'm predicting we'll just get midriff baring sorceresses.

#14
RosesandAshes

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Personally, I don't want rogues that look like this:

Posted Image

This is Alyn Shir from Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. I like her as a character, but seriously, she's wearing nothing but belts! I know dark elves were created to be the fanservice race, but this is just....*facepalms*.
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#15
Hypevosa

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Personally, I don't want rogues that look like this:

Posted Image

This is Alyn Shir from Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. I like her as a character, but seriously, she's wearing nothing but belts! I know dark elves were created to be the fanservice race, but this is just....*facepalms*.



Yeah, she's kinda ridiculous... I mean, showing midriff, cleavage, and having formfitting leather? sure, but having essentially no armor at all? Unless they're a barbarian who gets a bonus to raging while plum naked (ADOM reference :D) it's just plain silly.

Charisma bonus to AC for people not wanting to destroy such raw beauty only works for nymphs :p

Edited by Hypevosa, 01 October 2012 - 04:46 PM.

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#16
Orogun01

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People just don't seem to understand, artists need boobalicious armor as an excuse to have naked models at their house without getting their wives angry. Otherwise whats the point of art.
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#17
Adam Meyers

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Discussion of interest: Armour and weapon designs - a plea.


I cannot take under/inappropriately-dressed female NPCs/companions or even a female PC seriously (in context--i.e. most of the time in a game). The stupid gear actually requires just enough suspension of disbelief to break my immersion--every time I see such a thing, the only thing that occurs to me is "this character was designed for the more juvenile male gamers, I don't want to be associated with them." :p

This is exactly what I feel. I want a serious RPG, not fantasy- themed softporn for 15- year olds who have never seen a naked woman in their entire lives. It's so tragic when games almost subconsciously repeat the same silly, immature sexual objectification of women because it's "always been done that way" in the male- dominated field of computer games. When people put thier thoughts to it, I think most would prefer a realistic portrayal of women in games.


This is more important than people realize, as it sets the tone of the game. It's this sort of detail that determines whether you treat your audience as intelligent people or 15 year old horn-balls, whether you attract a more mature audience or immature one, whether it's more welcoming to all players or just dude-bros, and whether it's a 'turn your brain off' or 'turn your brain on' sort of game. Some of the most serious, artistic games in the world have been hurt by having an immature depiction of women in their games, as it breaks realism and intelligent analysis on the part of the audience (oddly, these games are often the games to back off when they reach an actual, appropriate time for sexuality. Apparently, they just keep underestimating their audience right and left.)

I want to see realistic depictions of females and female armor, etc., because I want to see this game become what it should be. As the OP said, there are good, appropriate, or even necessary times in a story, theme or game for things like attractive characters, sex scenes, or even fan service. The question here is whether the game will treat itself, and us, with enough intelligence to tell a truly gripping story, or whether it will undercut itself artistically and intelligently by distracting us from deeper, better subjects with a quick "Look, elven boobs held in by nothing but a few leather belts!" every time we turn it on.
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#18
Adhin

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I don't see the issue with boob armor, even after reading that one armorers thing about it the only issue I could see he came up with was based off his, apparent, misunderstanding of where the HEART ACTUALY IS. In which case the boob-place actually protects the heart extremely well. Granted the center of her chest would take more direct blows but thats the front ribcage line, not her heart. In the end as long as putting on full plate doesn't result in half naked I think the issues rather minor.

Oh and that guy actually used mass effect as a perfect example of 'how to do it'. So again... yeah. Boob armors ok, bikini armor isn't. It's pretty simple, and it's something the infinity engine games didn't have an issue with, nothing Obsidians done I can think of has... so pretty confident they aint gonna mess that up. Also there concept art already had fully covered up girls (granted, yes, boob armor but c'mon...). Also if this is a 'its not fare to women' just... read that armorers article again.

You got 0 historical records of anyone making armor specifically for a women ni the first place of that kind. It's a fantasy game. And I know plenty of women who like that stuff. Your personal opinions aren't the be all end all.

Edited by Adhin, 01 October 2012 - 05:10 PM.


#19
licketysplit

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The art designs show they're taking the approach advocated by the op. I'm not sure why this topic is relevant. Also, it's nice they changed the boob plate, but really I've seen SO much more pandering in other games. Cadegund's design was already light years away from the bikini armor style.

Edited by licketysplit, 01 October 2012 - 05:12 PM.


#20
Rostere

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I don't see the issue with boob armor, even after reading that one armorers thing about it the only issue I could see he came up with was based off his, apparent, misunderstanding of where the HEART ACTUALY IS. In which case the boob-place actually protects the heart extremely well. Granted the center of her chest would take more direct blows but thats the front ribcage line, not her heart. In the end as long as putting on full plate doesn't result in half naked I think the issues rather minor.

Oh and that guy actually used mass effect as a perfect example of 'how to do it'. So again... yeah. Boob armors ok, bikini armor isn't. It's pretty simple, and it's something the infinity engine games didn't have an issue with, nothing Obsidians done I can think of has... so pretty confident they aint gonna mess that up. Also there concept art already had fully covered up girls (granted, yes, boob armor but c'mon...). Also if this is a 'its not fare to women' just... read that armorers article again.

You got 0 historical records of anyone making armor specifically for a women ni the first place of that kind. It's a fantasy game. And I know plenty of women who like that stuff. Your personal opinions aren't the be all end all.

Just reading this makes me sad. I haven't the time to comment on all the misconceptions...
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