Encouraging Euro-Asian Interest

[Luckmann]

Just a note to have a bit of care with the stereotyping. One mans fun is another mans mortal insult...

 

Polls are worthless, but Obsidian mentioned in a passing comment years ago (I think just after NWN2 had been released) that they performed better in Europe than the US. I don't remember the exact wording or the exact quote, but they do seem to have a bit of a following there already.

There's actually been larger (scientific-ish) surveys to determine the gaming trends and what is popular in Europe, Asia and America.

 

Now, they might be a bit old by now (it's been years since I actually read about the study), but they matched up pretty well with the preconceptions. Europeans preferred complicated or "deep" games such as RPGs and RTS', Asians liked JRPGs and anything grindesque where "effort" was a measurement of success, while Americans were all about the FOOOTBAAAAWWWWWL; sports games and FPS'.

 

CRPGs are popular in europe, especially central europe and I'm a bit surprised that after revealing the stretchgoal for translations there wasnt surge of pledgers. CRPGs are also quite popular in Finland and other scandinavian countries but fortunately we dont need translations.

Despite some European countries apparent love for localizations (Poland, Germany, etc), most gamers doesn't appear to want them (for a long variety of understandable reasons).

 

Localizations is a good way to ensure long-term interest in the game, getting those extra sales to mom and pops, or the younglings. But it's a terrible way to drum up support from the gaming scene. Anyone with a strong interest in this genre, grognards and neckbeards united, already know English. Kickstarter was, out of necessity if nothing else, always aimed at the hardcore groups or pre-existing supporters, with a deep or abiding interest in whatever project is up for funding.

 

Localization is, like, the complete opposite of that.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Luckmann

[dlux]

NO to asian market "courtship"s.

 

1. I don't need a translation, I play my games in English all the time even if (or because!) there's a translation, which more often than not ruins the immersion for me.

2. I think Germany is a very large market for CPRGs, we love them and we create them too (Gothic, The Black Eye etc.)

2. Give me the PayPal option already, I'm one of those many thousands silly Krauts who can't pledge as long as it's Creditcard-only.

 

don't your lastschrift/bankeinzug cards have visa and mastercard capability as well?

(in denmark there are direct-debit cards (not credit card!) but 99% of them come with mastercard/visa capability)

Yes, we have debit cards, but Kickstarter (or Amazon Payments) does not accept them for international payments. I think this is because an online payment in Germany with a debit card can be cancelled according to the laws we have here (up to 6 weeks after your account has been debited!). We can use our debit cards and pay with PayPal, but Kickstarter does not accept PayPal....

[obyknven]

I know some vocal opponents to European and Asian translations exist, but perhaps Obsidian should try to court European and Asian interest in this game. Japan and Korea could both be arenas for competition albeit their markets are focus to a different sort of CRPG. Also, Russia despite their present focus on the sacred might enjoy this game. Is there any way anyone might think of that would pull European, Japanese, and Korean audiences with more than just translation and localization? Translation and localization itself doesn't advertise the game. Any form of commercial?

 

Of course, I am aware that Korean and Japanese audiences might not appreciate this game, but there might be some audiences that like the game (consumer audiences for video games are remarkably varied in Asian markets). And if it's made clear that this game is intentionally retro, it would appeal to Asian fans who loved Baldur's Gate and similar games.

 

(Edit -- thankyou Diablo169) Russia and Poland and other recently capitalist nations might have idle and questioning youth who have money. Older folk might like these games too. Who are the wealthy in these recently freed nations and what do they want?

U mad

[Umberlin]

I think it's a bit odd to read some of the comments in here, the Western influence on the East, where RPGs are concerned, resulted in several of the big names in Eastern RPGs, as well as countless others. There's not a gaming wall over there keeping western games out, in fact plenty of western games are played over there and many of their games past present and future are inspired or influenced by western mechanics and game design. Wizardry isn't the only one but it's a big one, without Wizardry you don't get Dragon Quest. Without Wizardry you don't get Etrian Odyssey. Etrian Odyssey pretty much 'is' Wizardry with a different coat of paint and a name change, and that's not even counting the fact that the Wizardry series of games is still going 'because' it was so adored in the East that they wouldn't let it die.

 

And again, it's not even the only one, it's just a well documented example that's easy to research if you aren't willing to take my word for it. EO and Wizardry aren't the only Western styled games going in the East for that matter. The Eastern market has eaten up the Elder Scrolls series of late, being quite of interest to them and you can see that it's not just something that's enjoyed, but yet another thing that has influenced game design which you can see in practice in several of the newer Eastern RPGs.

 

There's this weird idea of Eastern games I see around the internet that seems to think all Eastern RPGs are blue spikey hair and the young teen hero on a super linear quest to save the world when Eastern RPGs have given us non-linear experiences like the SaGa series of games, or individual entries like Legend of Mana and Chrono Trigger and so on and so forth, I don't see the point in listing every possible example but far more than that exist. Such things go outside the realm of pure RPG mechanics to arguable hybrids like Steam Bot Chronicles which puts an emphasis on non-linear gameplay and choice (if you can get past the badly aged 3D visuals). I won't pretend they're to everyone's taste but to dismiss them despite what they represent is pure ignorance.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Umberlin

[Mamoulian War]

CRPGs are popular in europe, especially central europe and I'm a bit surprised that after revealing the stretchgoal for translations there wasnt surge of pledgers. CRPGs are also quite popular in Finland and other scandinavian countries but fortunately we dont need translations.

I'd say that's because most of the people from central Europe that would be interested in this project don't need a translation either.

 

That is unfortunately not true. Lot of people over 30 who love RPGs games, unfortunately do not speak english good enough to enjoy text heavy games, but I know that translation to my language would be absolute waste of money, the spike of sales would not justify the effort. Sooner or later some fans make translations of the game to local language. That's what happened with BG1,2 and PS:T. Most of the fans purchased these games after fanmade translations few years later.

 

EDIT: And as a fact, every single translation to my language absolutely ruined the immersion for the people who played the game before in English language... Even if they marketed it as a "professional" translation...

 

One of the worst experience in gaming I have ever had, was to hear Grunt in Warcraft III speaking my local language...

Edited October 1, 2012 by Mamoulian War

[Gyges]

I font know what you are talking about on Europe. By the "where are you from" poll, we almost double the Americans.

[Mamoulian War]

I don't know if you're aware of this, but the majority of posters on this forum ARE European.

 

OP is incredibly pretentious.

 

Out of curiosity, where exactly are you getting this information? Please don't say that when someone has their location visible it's more often than not European when the vast majority of people don't have their location visible.

 

That is the well known fact to everybody, who is visiting this forums on regular basis, in last few years...

[evdk]

CRPGs are popular in europe, especially central europe and I'm a bit surprised that after revealing the stretchgoal for translations there wasnt surge of pledgers. CRPGs are also quite popular in Finland and other scandinavian countries but fortunately we dont need translations.

I'd say that's because most of the people from central Europe that would be interested in this project don't need a translation either.

 

That is unfortunately not true. Lot of people over 30 who love RPGs games, unfortunately do not speak english good enough to enjoy text heavy games, but I know that translation to my language would be absolute waste of money, the spike of sales would not justify the effort. Sooner or later some fans make translations of the game to local language. That's what happened with BG1,2 and PS:T. Most of the fans purchased these games after fanmade translations few years later.

 

EDIT: And as a fact, every single translation to my language absolutely ruined the immersion for the people who played the game before in English language... Even if they marketed it as a "professional" translation...

 

One of the worst experience in gaming I have ever had, was to hear Grunt in Warcraft III speaking my local language...

That does not much my experience at all - most of the "hard core" (god, that's a stupid term) gamers I know played the games in English and learn the language along the way. Of course personal anecdotes mean nothing.

 

And yes, at least for me, terms and sentences that in English sound merely cliché sound horribly cheesy and unbearable in my language. In fact one of the worst experiences I had was playing IWD2 in Czech - being used to 3E English terms for spells and feats, the Czech translation confused me and the dialogues were even worse (no to mention that they could not keep one translation for the name "Neverwinter" in two different sentences).

[AwesomeOcelot]

I think it's a bit odd to read some of the comments in here, the Western influence on the East, where RPGs are concerned, resulted in several of the big names in Eastern RPGs, as well as countless others. There's not a gaming wall over there keeping western games out, in fact plenty of western games are played over there and many of their games past present and future are inspired or influenced by western mechanics and game design. Wizardry isn't the only one but it's a big one, without Wizardry you don't get Dragon Quest. Without Wizardry you don't get Etrian Odyssey. Etrian Odyssey pretty much 'is' Wizardry with a different coat of paint and a name change, and that's not even counting the fact that the Wizardry series of games is still going 'because' it was so adored in the East that they wouldn't let it die.

 

And again, it's not even the only one, it's just a well documented example that's easy to research if you aren't willing to take my word for it. EO and Wizardry aren't the only Western styled games going in the East for that matter. The Eastern market has eaten up the Elder Scrolls series of late, being quite of interest to them and you can see that it's not just something that's enjoyed, but yet another thing that has influenced game design which you can see in practice in several of the newer Eastern RPGs.

 

Japanese game developers are of course going to play Western games, but that doesn't mean that they're successful to normal consumers. I'm sure Western developers are more likely to have Japanese imports.

 

Wizardry? You had to go back to the 1980's to give an example. Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim are a good argument that Japanese people don't like Western RPGs, because these games are not like Western RPGs, they're shallow sandboxes with pretty graphics, Bethesda does these games well, better than anyone else, but they're not even close to being the type of game Project Eternity will be, Bethesda is god-awful at most of the things that make Western RPGs great. Bethesda games do not do nearly as well in Japan as they do in North America or Europe. VGCharts says that Japan makes up under 4% of total sales of Skyrim.

 

More importantly Japan does not have a PC gaming market, Bethesda games were sold to them on consoles, and so was Wizardry. Due to differences in popular hardware in the 1980's PC gaming never got traction in Japan.

Edited October 1, 2012 by AwesomeOcelot

[BasaltineBadger]

CRPGs are popular in europe, especially central europe and I'm a bit surprised that after revealing the stretchgoal for translations there wasnt surge of pledgers. CRPGs are also quite popular in Finland and other scandinavian countries but fortunately we dont need translations.

I'd say that's because most of the people from central Europe that would be interested in this project don't need a translation either.

 

That is unfortunately not true. Lot of people over 30 who love RPGs games, unfortunately do not speak english good enough to enjoy text heavy games, but I know that translation to my language would be absolute waste of money, the spike of sales would not justify the effort. Sooner or later some fans make translations of the game to local language. That's what happened with BG1,2 and PS:T. Most of the fans purchased these games after fanmade translations few years later.

 

EDIT: And as a fact, every single translation to my language absolutely ruined the immersion for the people who played the game before in English language... Even if they marketed it as a "professional" translation...

 

One of the worst experience in gaming I have ever had, was to hear Grunt in Warcraft III speaking my local language...

That does not much my experience at all - most of the "hard core" (god, that's a stupid term) gamers I know played the games in English and learn the language along the way. Of course personal anecdotes mean nothing.

 

And yes, at least for me, terms and sentences that in English sound merely cliché sound horribly cheesy and unbearable in my language. In fact one of the worst experiences I had was playing IWD2 in Czech - being used to 3E English terms for spells and feats, the Czech translation confused me and the dialogues were even worse (no to mention that they could not keep one translation for the name "Neverwinter" in two different sentences).

 

It's the opposite in Poland. Many people still don't want to play untranslated games and Polish translations of IE games were top notch and according to many players had better voice acting than originals.

[jarpie]

I think it's a bit odd to read some of the comments in here, the Western influence on the East, where RPGs are concerned, resulted in several of the big names in Eastern RPGs, as well as countless others. There's not a gaming wall over there keeping western games out, in fact plenty of western games are played over there and many of their games past present and future are inspired or influenced by western mechanics and game design. Wizardry isn't the only one but it's a big one, without Wizardry you don't get Dragon Quest. Without Wizardry you don't get Etrian Odyssey. Etrian Odyssey pretty much 'is' Wizardry with a different coat of paint and a name change, and that's not even counting the fact that the Wizardry series of games is still going 'because' it was so adored in the East that they wouldn't let it die.

 

And again, it's not even the only one, it's just a well documented example that's easy to research if you aren't willing to take my word for it. EO and Wizardry aren't the only Western styled games going in the East for that matter. The Eastern market has eaten up the Elder Scrolls series of late, being quite of interest to them and you can see that it's not just something that's enjoyed, but yet another thing that has influenced game design which you can see in practice in several of the newer Eastern RPGs.

 

Japanese game developers are of course going to play Western games, but that doesn't mean that they're successful to normal consumers. I'm sure Western developers are more likely to have Japanese imports.

 

Wizardry? You had to go back to the 1980's to give an example. Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim are a good argument that Japanese people don't like Western RPGs, because these games are not like Western RPGs, they're shallow sandboxes with pretty graphics, Bethesda does these games well, better than anyone else, but they're not even close to being the type of game Project Eternity will be, Bethesda is god-awful at most of the things that make Western RPGs great. Bethesda games do not do nearly as well in Japan as they do in North America or Europe. VGCharts says that Japan makes up under 4% of total sales of Skyrim.

 

More importantly Japan does not have a PC gaming market, Bethesda games were sold to them on consoles, and so was Wizardry. Due to differences in popular hardware in the 1980's PC gaming never got traction in Japan.

 

This is very much spot on, couldn't have put any better.

[norolim]

Im so glad OP started this topic. Not because it's especially interesting to me, but because the replies from some deeply offended Europeans forced the OP to do some research and reading and realize how ignorant he/she was when thinking that people in Europe live in the sticks and only saw a PC on the screen of a black and white TV, that an American uncle sent a while ago. I'm glad he/she learned that games are so popular in e.g. Poland that they even made one. I'll help you with this a bit OP. Here is an incomplete list of games developed in Poland. And it's just Poland. If you did some more research, you would realize how many games were made in Europe. Have you heard about a little game called Battlefield? Well, the series was started in Sweden [Europe] and is still being developed there by a company called DICE.

 

So, please OP, next time you decide to saddle the horse and ride to those distant lands with the light of knowledge in your hand, make sure that light over there isn't brighter than yours.

Edited October 1, 2012 by norolim

[Monte Carlo]

I doubt that Japanese would appreciate BG-like RPG

 

I think MMOs like WoW are popular in Japan and China. Which is to say that Western fantasy tropes are OK with those countries.

[BasaltineBadger]

I doubt that Japanese would appreciate BG-like RPG

 

I think MMOs like WoW are popular in Japan and China. Which is to say that Western fantasy tropes are OK with those countries.

 

MMO enthusiast are the least people I would suspect of being RPG connoisseurs .

[Monte Carlo]

A fair point, but some of them might be tempted to take a faltering first step on the path of righteousness.

[Gorth]

If you did some more research, you would realize how many games were made in Europe. Have you heard about a little game called Battlefield? Well, the series was started in Sweden [Europe] and is still being developed there by a company called DICE.

Yeah, from top of my head, the Hitman games comes from Denmark, the STALKER games from Ukraine, the Gothic games from Germany, the Space Rangers games from Russia, the Divinity games from Belgium, the Witcher games from Poland and there are lots more. You don't need to live outside those parts of the world to be in the gaming industry (as a consumer or a producer).

[Haerski]

If you did some more research, you would realize how many games were made in Europe. Have you heard about a little game called Battlefield? Well, the series was started in Sweden [Europe] and is still being developed there by a company called DICE.

Yeah, from top of my head, the Hitman games comes from Denmark, the STALKER games from Ukraine, the Gothic games from Germany, the Space Rangers games from Russia, the Divinity games from Belgium, the Witcher games from Poland and there are lots more. You don't need to live outside those parts of the world to be in the gaming industry (as a consumer or a producer).

...Max Payne and Alan Wake from Finland! Yay!:D (And Angry Birds of course, but I'm still considering if it should even be called a game)

 

EDIT: Also dungeon crawler fans here might recognise name Legend of Grimrock, which was made by small Finnish studio Almost Human.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Haerski

[Jarmo]

But is there any way to get the American audience interested in something like Eternity?

Edited October 1, 2012 by Jarmo

[BasaltineBadger]

But is there any way to get the American audience interested in something like Eternity?

 

Sure just:

-make it a cover shooter

-add sex scenes

-lots of bloom

-celebrities as voice actors

-spent at least half of the budget on marketing

[Mamoulian War]

CRPGs are popular in europe, especially central europe and I'm a bit surprised that after revealing the stretchgoal for translations there wasnt surge of pledgers. CRPGs are also quite popular in Finland and other scandinavian countries but fortunately we dont need translations.

I'd say that's because most of the people from central Europe that would be interested in this project don't need a translation either.

 

That is unfortunately not true. Lot of people over 30 who love RPGs games, unfortunately do not speak english good enough to enjoy text heavy games, but I know that translation to my language would be absolute waste of money, the spike of sales would not justify the effort. Sooner or later some fans make translations of the game to local language. That's what happened with BG1,2 and PS:T. Most of the fans purchased these games after fanmade translations few years later.

 

EDIT: And as a fact, every single translation to my language absolutely ruined the immersion for the people who played the game before in English language... Even if they marketed it as a "professional" translation...

 

One of the worst experience in gaming I have ever had, was to hear Grunt in Warcraft III speaking my local language...

That does not much my experience at all - most of the "hard core" (god, that's a stupid term) gamers I know played the games in English and learn the language along the way. Of course personal anecdotes mean nothing.

 

And yes, at least for me, terms and sentences that in English sound merely cliché sound horribly cheesy and unbearable in my language. In fact one of the worst experiences I had was playing IWD2 in Czech - being used to 3E English terms for spells and feats, the Czech translation confused me and the dialogues were even worse (no to mention that they could not keep one translation for the name "Neverwinter" in two different sentences).

 

It's the opposite in Poland. Many people still don't want to play untranslated games and Polish translations of IE games were top notch and according to many players had better voice acting than originals.

 

I am so jealous. I had the same sad experience like evdk with IWD2. W3 and IWD2 was the reasons, why I have swore to me, that I never ever purchase game in Czech or Slovak language. TBH If I would be little bit better in Polish, I would definately prefer to play Witcher in Polish than in English. Best language for a game, is the native language of its creator. Big big shame, I have no time to learn proper Japanese, because many English translations of japanese games suck donkey balls, or are extremely censored due to sexual or religious prejudice of the western publishers.....

[Haerski]

But is there any way to get the American audience interested in something like Eternity?

-celebrities as voice actors

How about Will Smith as a main character... or Justin Bieber if you choose to be a woman? Make this a stretch goal Obsidian or I will drop my pledge to previous tier!!!

Edited October 1, 2012 by Haerski

[Mamoulian War]

You should spent rest of your life in eternal agony.

 

And I think that would be far far from the proper punishment for the mention of The-One-Which-Should-Not-Be-Named's true name on this boards

[general_azure]

The only useful thing said in this topic so far was probably that almost noone in germany uses credit cards, meaning they can't use kickstarter either. If I hadn't gone on vacation in the states last year, I couldn't have pledged.

 

And the OP gave me a headache -.-

[Tuco Benedicto]

Old school "Western" RPGs are probably more popular in Europe than in the U.S. market, so I don't think any particular effort is needed in that sense.

[AwesomeOcelot]

The only useful thing said in this topic so far was probably that almost noone in germany uses credit cards, meaning they can't use kickstarter either. If I hadn't gone on vacation in the states last year, I couldn't have pledged.

 

And the OP gave me a headache -.-

 

I think that's also the case in France and Poland. Don't they have Visa and Mastercard debit cards? I can understand not having credit cards, although they are less of a hassle if they get stolen or fraud happens than a card that has direct access to your bank account, but to not have any sort of card would seem bizarre to me.