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Unless the game reflects this transgender choice in some way it's just useless LARPing. Bethesda Softworks forums are that way.

 

That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though.

I know but it bears repeating every time the silly advice "just role play it in your head" comes up. It's pure cancer.

 

I guess that woul com down to personal opinion. Some people want a fleshed out PC, somewhat limiting the role playing potential - but at the same time offering a rich in-game experience -, others want a clean sheet opening up for limitless role playing, at the cost of some times stumbling upon impossible encounters where none of the alternatives offered by the game really is "in character" for the role you have created.

 

I like the first one better - and I expect you do too. I still tend to elaborate on the information the game provides me with though.

 

I have your clean sheet right here:

 

notepad.exe

 

Think of the rich role playing possibilities with literary nothing to limit one but one's own imagination (that might be a bit of a hurdle to clear for some people, I admit).

 

Some might enjoy that. Most people probably want something that is not of their own making to interact with though. Something along the lines of a video game world maybe? :)

But they are not interacting in any meaningful way. If I am going to creepily stalk a female NPC across town and then lock her in her own house I can certainly pretend that she is my girlfriend, but it does not matter in the game unless some other part of it acknowledges this fact. And it won't. cRPGs should have a robust system that tries to take into account the most variables possible, not a barebones one that depends on you to do most of the work while ignoring your actions completely. That's just lazy design.

 

I both agree and disagree. Given the example you lay out here, I agree completely. It doesn't make sense, and the game does not offer you any potential for interacting with it along those lines. But I always tend to add some info to the characters i play that is not offered by the game. In Fallout 2 I might give the protagonist racist tendencies based on him never before having encountered anyone not like him. The game does not give me any information supporting such a choice, but based on this choice I could play a character that kills any ghoul or Super-Mutant on sight.

 

Similar examples could easily be made for a transgendered person.

I could be wrong but Falout IIRC gives you dialog options to voice your opinions of ghouls/supermutants. And you can definitely screw them over by your actions instead of just some random killing spree - see Vault City.

 

That's not really the point though, is it? Had this not been a part of the game design I would still have been able to play such a character without breaking Immersion the way your example would.

 

I could play someone hating females too. I could refuse talking to females, and I could be an **** to anyone I was forced to talk to. The game does not give me this character trait - but it wouldn't be any less part of my role playing experience throughout the game.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, chief.

Say no to popamole!

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I think straight/gay options are enough. The game really only has to cover sexual orientations and not every single known fetish or gender-based alternative concept - it is just not possible without spending enourmous amounts of resources.

 

But that does not mean that it won't be in the game at some point or another. The modding community is rather passionate and maybe they will add such a feature to the game after it is released (if there is mod support at least). Maybe there is even a transgender mod for Skyrim, I am not sure - but if there is, then you can be pretty sure that there will be one for this game also. :)

 

When I read all this posts, like this one, over here I get the feeling, that not many have read the original post:

 

There are several ways to successfully implement a feature like this without alienating other gamers. My first suggestion would be to consider making an Elf like race have no specific gender. If it's left ambiguous, it is much easier for transgender players to identify with these characters. Other options could include elemental type creatures, such as stone golems. It is a fair compromise for those of us who are just trying to find an easy outlet to connect with characters in a fantasy universe.

 

I simply can not see, where such an option would mean an incredible increase of workload for the developers.

English is not my first language, so please forgive me any mistakes!

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you know i am a tentacle lover and i would pledge 250$... you guys at obsidian only have to spend around 10k to add a lovely kraken i can bromance! i know that i am a minority but this would expand your universe to an incredible level of detail.

 

I love you.

 

By the way, they've just announced that there will be a transgender character, and published a portrait:

 

bulent_ersoy_un_gizemli_sevgilisi.jpg

A.K.A Ormagöden.

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But they aren't. People have been clamoring for nonwhite/European and female player characters for years.

 

I'd be surprised if PE would not allow you to customize sex and skin colour, being spiritual successor to Ifinity engine games.

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Oh God, please no.

 

It's not anything worth spending one dime of resources on. It's such a niche request that angry declarations of not supporting or purchasing the game due to lack of this option has about as much an effect as a mosquito fart in a hurricane. Take your activism somewhere else, please.

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I think straight/gay options are enough. The game really only has to cover sexual orientations and not every single known fetish or gender-based alternative concept - it is just not possible without spending enourmous amounts of resources.

 

But that does not mean that it won't be in the game at some point or another. The modding community is rather passionate and maybe they will add such a feature to the game after it is released (if there is mod support at least). Maybe there is even a transgender mod for Skyrim, I am not sure - but if there is, then you can be pretty sure that there will be one for this game also. :)

 

When I read all this posts, like this one, over here I get the feeling, that not many have read the original post:

 

There are several ways to successfully implement a feature like this without alienating other gamers. My first suggestion would be to consider making an Elf like race have no specific gender. If it's left ambiguous, it is much easier for transgender players to identify with these characters. Other options could include elemental type creatures, such as stone golems. It is a fair compromise for those of us who are just trying to find an easy outlet to connect with characters in a fantasy universe.

 

I simply can not see, where such an option would mean an incredible increase of workload for the developers.

I don't think you read my post actually. I wrote: It is just not possible to include every single known fetish or gender-based alternative concept, without spending enourmous amounts of resources.

 

There are other fetishes too. Do you think only your fetish or gender-based alternative concept should be in the game because it is special and the others are not? If you include one, then you have to include them all - that is why Obsidian should only include sexual orientations (straight/gay/bi) and nothing else, imo.

Edited by dlux

:closed:

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I simply can not see, where such an option would mean an incredible increase of workload for the developers.

I don't really understand how a transgender person with difficulty connecting to a nontransgendered character would find it easier to connect to an asexual race, much less a race that has no sexuality because it's a non-organic construct like a golem.

Edited by The Sharmat
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I don't really see how any significant number of people would be interested in this. Transexuals are a pretty small minority to begin with and I think most male-to-female would prefer just to play women and vice versa.

 

Edit: I also don't see how gender is such a big hurdle for identification with a character, I play both female and male characters in games (computer and tabletop) all the time.

Edited by limaxophobiacq
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Edit: I also don't see how gender is such a big hurdle for identification with a character, I play both female and male characters in games (computer and tabletop) all the time.

So do I but some people prefer to play characters that are the most resemblant of themselves. I certainly laughed at the possibility of being able to create a black human noble in DAO because it didn't make any sense in the story (I played a female asian human though because I certainly appreciated the customization possiblities despite implying that my character was adopted or that "my mommy" had been... playful :p ).

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Although I am all for transgender options, I am not sure why people want to make a character that is as close as possible to themselves, I thought roleplaying was kinda the oposite of trying to be yourself.

Not that I am going to try dictating how people should play a game (and a singleplayer game at that), just wondering.

 

That being said, it would be nice to have cultures in the game where gender roles might be different from the "standard", or cultures where there are no gender specific roles, as well as people who stray from their own cultural perception of gender roles. It makes for interresting characters and conflicts.

Edited by HansKrSG
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I am not sure why people want to make a character that is as close as possible to themselves

 

I'm not sure why they don't just play Second Life if that's what people want. Why expect a cRPG to be some all-inclusive real life simulation?

 

I don't get this reaction. This is a kickstarter. People want to debate and be a part of the creative process. Some people want turn based combat. Some want deep political story lines. Some people want cool companions, and some want a different approach to the gender issue.

 

Why should this be a non-issue in this process? I don't get it.

 

In this particular case I don't think it needs to be implemented specifically in the game mechanics, but that doesn't make it a silly topic. If this does not interest you at all, discuss something else. If you are against it, say so, but do it in an adult and sivilized manner. It's not that hard.

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There are other fetishes too. Do you think only your fetish or gender-based alternative concept should be in the game because it is special and the others are not? If you include one, then you have to include them all - that is why Obsidian should only include sexual orientations (straight/gay/bi) and nothing else, imo.

 

Good Lord!

 

Implementing EVERY fetish would mean a huge amount of work, we agree on that one.

 

But: I cannot see how adding something like golem as a playable character is very fetish-like. Is this really so hard to understand?!

 

---

 

I simply can not see, where such an option would mean an incredible increase of workload for the developers.

I don't really understand how a transgender person with difficulty connecting to a nontransgendered character would find it easier to connect to an asexual race, much less a race that has no sexuality because it's a non-organic construct like a golem.

 

You know what, I don't know either. But if a transgender person says it would be cool and at the same time it doesn't mean a huge extra workload for the developers, why shouldn't it be implemented?

 

Furthermore: I think that playing as a golem for example isn't something that would only appeal to transgender people. I think it is a great idea, with it's own unique possibilities for great quests and a fantastic background story...

English is not my first language, so please forgive me any mistakes!

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I don't object to the game including a transgender character or a genderless race if that suits the setting, but I'm rather counting on being able to play a female elf--who is female. :)

 

I'd also say that posts are confirming my preference that a low-budget game focus first on gameplay, world, and story and that romance/sexuality and other "special" features take a back seat to those. If there are extra resources, or those issues come up in the context of the world they've created or the story they want to tell, great, but I'm leery of checklists of features (whether its representation of specific sexual situations, e.g. in my case having a much younger spouse, hiring talented outsiders to perform tasks that talented staffers could perform, more voice acting, or world animation) that would siphon resources away from those fundamentals before they are adequately secured. I'd much rather that the game imply that all romance occurs between people of similar age than that the world feel thin, the plot short, or the gameplay dull or imbalanced.

Edited by Lady Evenstar
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Seems to me if the game was going to have backgrounds ala Arcanum (something I liked a good bit) this would be something that could be possible to do within the context of the background system provided it makes sense with the setting.

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Furthermore: I think that playing as a golem for example isn't something that would only appeal to transgender people. I think it is a great idea, with it's own unique possibilities for great quests and a fantastic background story...

It would be, but it should fit with the rest of the setting. If a golem does fit, great. That's certainly different. I just don't want an asexual race inserted into the game as a playable race simply to have an asexual PC option.

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As I have been transitioning to a robot lately (I am scheduled to have an advanced targeting system installed later today) I feel that us cyborgs are underrepresented in video games and discriminated agains that is way I ask, nay demand that I am given the option to roll a golem like creature at the very least if not a T-1000.

Edited by Scryer
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but I'm rather counting on being able to play a female elf--who is female. :)

 

 

I think you are safe. And more to the point, you having an opinion on this goes a long way to show that gender-issues are important to many, including you (and me).

 

Me? I want to play a straight guy - probably human. And yes, this is because it's familiar and easyer to relate to. I'm probably safe to.

 

When it comes to sexuality I expect it to be handled in a mature and adult way. I expect to find homosexuals in the world, but how the world reacts to the issue can be handled in many different ways. I hope the reaction differs in the world from faction to faction (races, towns/villages, religious/secular institutions), but I'm cool with the Fallout NV version too. The most important thing is for it to make sense in the setting presented. The non-existence of homosexuality would feel the most jarring as far as I'm concerned. It would be like implying that people don't need food, don't need sleep/rest and other strange consepts.

 

Sure, it's a fantasy-world, but you come to expect some focus on... Well, realism in these games as well. The existence of males and females is one such example. They could go for an all out male population with some sort of fantastical reproduction-system, but it would still feel...wrong.

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Don't really see a pressing need to include one as you can just create an avatar whose gender matches the one you do and there you go. Unless you want people to react to your PC being a transsexual - probably only negative reactions will come, thinking on it.

 

As an aside, I'm not really understanding why you would feel alienated by the lack of this option anyway.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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