Domigorgon Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Please, no. In Dragon Age: Origins you must gather allies in four sides of the world to fight an ancient evil. In Mass Effect 1/2/3 you must gather allies in four sides of the galaxy to fight an ancient evil. In Neverwinter Nights you fight an ancient/resurrected evil. In Neverwinter Nights 2 you fight an ancient/resurrected evil. Oh, and you build a fortress. In Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim you fight an ancient/resurrected evil, but mostly just roam and kill everything and/or carry out FedEx quests. Now, those games were not necessarily bad (some I quite enjoyed, actually), but the overarching plot was too damn simple and cliche'd. Now, here's some games that did it right, storywise (IMO): In Fallout 1 you must find the water chip and defeat the mutant overlord. In Fallout 2 you must save your tribe from starvation and disease and defeat a paramilitary organization. In Baldur's Gate you must avenge your foster father and find the secret of your parentage. In Baldur's Gate 2 you must settle a score with a powerful wizard, as well as with your father's progeny. In Planescape: Torment you are an amnesiac at the centre of the multiverse, seeking a cure for his immortality. In Witcher... you don't know what the hell is happening, until you do. Agree? Disagree? Discuss. Also, I've nothing against free roaming and side-quests. Especially when they are anything more than simple fetchfests (Elder Scrolls, I'm looking at you... go and pick your own herbs). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatdim Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You've nailed it pretty well. Give me a personal story and I'll be satisfied. Just like PS:T and MotB. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos_hybrid Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You've nailed it pretty well. Give me a personal story and I'll be satisfied. Just like PS:T and MotB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 * sighs * I just want a game where I am the ancient / resurrected evil. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The Chosen One must choose! Seriously though, I agree with the OP. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoverdog Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Going to four different places to gather allies/find pieces of a map/whatever is a purely bioware trope, which they repeated in their every game since NWN (dunno about Jade Empire, haven't played). Obsidian made that mistake (no idea if willingly or was it a requirement) in KOTOR2, and I'm pretty sure they won't repeat it. It sucks big time. [intelligence] I'm fighting the Good Fight with my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Brennecke Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 We've been discussing this internally, and are in total agreement. Thanks for the good post! 19 Follow me on twitter - @adam_brennecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensuki Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The Jade Empire story was actually alright. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoma Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Its the journey that matters, not the destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Its the journey that matters, not the destination. That's deep. Can I find you on your mountain top and ask you some advice about stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domigorgon Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 We've been discussing this internally, and are in total agreement. Thanks for the good post! Thank YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkpriest Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) DA:O - that one was fun, but the gathering of allies seemed more like an effort just to prolong the game, not to add much meaningful material. I preferred some of the sidequests over the main gathering thing - especially since it apparently had almost no reflection on DA2... ME1 - it was more personal, even though you were saving the galaxy from a baddie, still unknown baddie ME2 - was more of the action than story... you were just trying to kill the Collectors - some of the DLCs got me more interested than the main plot... ME3 - tried to follow up on the DA:O mechanics but at the same time forgot about too many things that should be implemented... and clearly it was more for a shooter crowd than RPG crowd NWN - the main plot could have been better, but it still touched some of very interesting piece of FR lore - the creator races NWN: SotU - it was more personal and fun IMO NWN: HotU - since it was an epic level adventure, it involved powerful and somewhat cliched characters... still the main antagonist was not that obvious at the start of the game NWN2 - felt very good at the start... really, until the Jerro thing was taken more into the spotlight, I really thought that the main antagonist will be someone else than we fought in the end - the main game unfortunately showed to the audience "the rushed product" effect, with the last chapters and writing for NPCs not being as good as the initial chapter NWN2: MotB - very nice and personal game... gave a whole new look at the silver sword, the shardbearer and well play it if you want more info NWN2: SoZ - I did not expect a great story, because it was not advertised as such... it still was an interesting concept with building your own "empire" so to speak. I liked the return of mechanics such as "random encounter, map travel". I just wished there was a game that was build from scratch up with such mechanics in place. Never liked the Elder Scrolls series... mainly because of the combat mechanics and bland NPCs... I did not manage to finish any of them... To the second portion of the list, I would also add The Witcher 2... I can't wait what plot the dev team will pull out for TW3 I support some more creative ending and plot. More BG2, PS:T, TW2, even Alpha Protocol style than DA, ME series Edited September 17, 2012 by Darkpriest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelp Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You forgot how in the first chapter of NWN you had to go to the four sections of Neverwinter and gather the four rare creatures required to cure the plague. But yeah, Bioware loves their standard fantasy. Blackisle, Troika, and Obsidian tend(ed) to do a great job of deconstructing fantasy. I wish they'd do dragon age 3. Bioware tried to pull an Obsidian, and it almost worked... I tend to look at it this way. Bioware tells great stories. Obsidian creates more believable worlds. Lastly, (10 year old spoilers) @MonteCarlo: Play Kotor 2 with the restored content patch. You ARE the threat to the galaxy that the jedi have to unite to oppose. I just played that part this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagaziel Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Going to four different places to gather allies/find pieces of a map/whatever is a purely bioware trope, which they repeated in their every game since NWN (dunno about Jade Empire, haven't played). Obsidian made that mistake (no idea if willingly or was it a requirement) in KOTOR2, and I'm pretty sure they won't repeat it. It sucks big time. Obsidian actually subverted that. HMIC for: [ The Wasteland Wiki ] [ Pillars of Eternity Wiki ] [ Tyranny Wiki ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkpriest Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) You forgot how in the first chapter of NWN you had to go to the four sections of Neverwinter and gather the four rare creatures required to cure the plague. But yeah, Bioware loves their standard fantasy. Blackisle, Troika, and Obsidian tend(ed) to do a great job of deconstructing fantasy. I wish they'd do dragon age 3. Bioware tried to pull an Obsidian, and it almost worked... I tend to look at it this way. Bioware tells great stories. Obsidian creates more believable worlds. Lastly, (10 year old spoilers) @MonteCarlo: Play Kotor 2 with the restored content patch. You ARE the threat to the galaxy that the jedi have to unite to oppose. I just played that part this morning. I still wish that Obsidian had a time and possibility to finish that piece of art i.e. KotOR 2... there was so much content cut, and probably even more on the boards. To be honest, I'd like to know more of the plans there were for KotOR, but I never really was that much of a forum lurker - this project got me attached as I decided to drop my 80$ :D - and I really want to have a brand new, good RPG game. Edited September 17, 2012 by Darkpriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoverdog Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yes, in a way they did - actually the whole game was a major deconstruction of all the fantasy... in space! crap that Star Wars consists of. That was a major incline of an otherwise boring setting. [intelligence] I'm fighting the Good Fight with my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Personally I thought the mechanic for involving the player in the conflict of Neverwinter Nights 2 was genius, we we're not left asking: "Why me" We were intricately and personally enmeshed in the storyline through bad luck at our birth. The King of Shadows was a bit cliche, but his past and transformation due to outside forces (like the pc) was very interesting. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagaziel Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/ Here's a damn good Let's Play. It's absolutely brilliant and includes cut content! HMIC for: [ The Wasteland Wiki ] [ Pillars of Eternity Wiki ] [ Tyranny Wiki ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miquel93 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 It's Obsdidian, I wouldn't be worried about that. I mean, look to what they did with the Star Wars setting in KOTOR 2. Even the most typical storyline made by Obsidian, NWN 2 (and Dungeon Siege III, but never finished that one), had a lot of interesting stuff that make it quite different from Bioware storylines (to say one studio that loves "clich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 In Fallout 2 you must save your tribe from starvation and disease and defeat a paramilitary organization. Picking nits, but I'd argue that the Enclave in FO2 counts as an "ancient evil." Put into fantasy terms, they're the remnants of an empire whose war destroyed the world 2 centuries ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Butterfly Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 We've been discussing this internally, and are in total agreement. Thanks for the good post! Great! I totally agree with the OP it's getting a bit old xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxilius Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Going to four different places to gather allies/find pieces of a map/whatever is a purely bioware trope, which they repeated in their every game since NWN (dunno about Jade Empire, haven't played). Obsidian made that mistake (no idea if willingly or was it a requirement) in KOTOR2, and I'm pretty sure they won't repeat it. It sucks big time. But that's not what happened in KOTOR2. The game keeps going on once you beat Nihilus who were a complete pushover anyway. It was all about the Exile's journey. I agree we shouldn't ignore the characters who are the backbone of the story but epic stories and campaigns are cool too. See MotB, you battle angels, doomguides and gods to save your soul, it felt great to live such a story with great characters at your side. Bioware tried that in Mass Effect 2 but I think they failed because there were a complete lack of interactions between the characters who weren't that interesting to begin with. It's hard to explain such complex concepts in a language that is not my mother tongue but basically, what ME2 lacked was a life in the ship. Something that was here in NWN2, same for the Ebon Hawk in KOTOR2. The ship was fun to explore because something was always bound to happen. To resume, great characters won't fit if the story is lacking. Edited September 17, 2012 by Auxilius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauron Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 OP nailed it and I am happy that developers are aware of it. Still a sidequest "destroy ancient/ressurectet evil" ( orrr support it for whatever it may offer inreturn) wouldnt hurt either. Many have weakness for mystirious ancient myth stuff etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlux Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The story arc from Baldur's Gate has to be one of the best in video gaming history. Abso****inglutely fantastic!!! But I have to admit: The story about the Reapers (ancient evil) was also excellent... until Mass Effect 3 at least. ^^ They were just so dark, evil and mysterious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incubus9 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I don't want to have to gather/kill/find "x" number of crystals/magic beasts/companions to unlock/defeat/challenge anyone or anything. So basically I think that they shouldn't borrow their plot from any Final Fantasy game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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