Mass Effect 3

[Morgoth]

The Demo better turns everything around, otherwise I'm gonna skip this insult to my good gaming tastes.

 

And there I thought BioWare wouldn't get changed in the EA assimilation process... Was nice to know you, old BioWare.

[entrerix]

im getting ME3. but if its as disappointing as DA2, then it will be the last game i pay full price for from bioware for a long time

[Hassat Hunter]

Considering that reapers made keepers, which was mentioned in ME1, I don't think there's any kind conflict about them making collectors and enslaving them or reapers enslaving organics in general. They are enslaving organics, because they hate them. Reapers use organics to better themselves. They harvest majority of organics and leave some behind to complete a task or two.

Hmmm, weren't the keepers actually robotics, instead of organic. Or do I miss-remember here?

The relay was for strategic purpose. The whole thing about how proteans fell, you know, taking down the Citadel in one swoop stuff, the reason why keepers were made... Time was a just a slight bonus if anything.

Not really. It was made pretty clear the only way the Reapers could arrive fast was this way, otherwise it would take them a loooong looong time. But apparently that changed for ME2. Which, as already been stated, makes Sovereign's plan a little stupid. Why risk so much when you can wait 10 years and just take everything by force?

TIM was part of different sect of Cerberus than the ones Shepard met in ME1. While they have same goals, they have different ways to achieve them.

As also already stated, Tim was the Cerberus boss. And doesn't really seem the terrorist leader ME1 made Cerberus out to be. They were pretty much an additional baddy that seemed to be added in late-time. If they were so essential to the ME-plot for part II, why not more consideration in their implentation.

Which gives me more fear there was no over-arching plan for ME and they just make up stuff as they go. Not good for a trilogy based on story-telling.

Council never believed in reapers in ME1. While it is stupid, there's no conflict in this between ME1 and ME2.

Except at the end of #1 one appears. The only one in known galaxy space sure (retconned with the derelict reaper in ME2).

What I took from your post was that every time ME2 did something you deemed silly or whatever you put fingers in your ears and went "naa naa naa I can't hear you" when Bio explained the silly thing.

Except they didn't. And stuff got sillier as the game progresses. By the time the endboss appeared I was really going "WTF BioWare? What where you guys thinking?"

The 'choice' and ending scene just made stuff even worse.

 

When plot is as non-existant as it was in ME2, I actually expect it to be somewhat right. And match the premises set up in the first game. Why the heck is it a trilogy otherwise? They never explained their "silly thing"...

Perhaps I should have tried nanana-ing though, would have made it more fun not having to deal with retconning everything I learned from ME1 and thus losing any plot progression I was hoping for.

And don't even get me started on "bullets are better than infinite firing guns which do a little overheating". That's so insanely silly... (and heck, that's there explenation) it blows a mind...

[Gorth]

Am I going to regret googling 'Jersey Shore'?

[Hurlshort]

Am I going to regret googling 'Jersey Shore'?

 

I'm not sure a google search will really convey the full magnitude of Jersey Shore on US culture.

[GhostofAnakin]

They certainly found a way to make that new female character ugly as sin. And I thought Miranda's troll face was bad.

[Oblarg]

Does it really matter whether or not the Collectors could have successfully attacked Earth? They showed they were quite capable of hitting the fringe/colony worlds, and would keep doing so. That's still a rather large swathe of humanity, and I'm pretty sure that Shephard and co were quite frantic over that alone. I mean, remember overhearing some of the crew talking. They had family in those colonies, which is one reason some of them were so motivated.

 

A valid point, but I must ask again - if BioWare never intended the Collectors to be a legitimate threat to alliance space, why do so many of the characters constantly act as if they are? Lines about how they're going to attack Earth are the most grevious examples, but there are plenty of others. The game seems to constantly remind you that Humanity is in danger, when clearly that isn't the case.

 

The fact that human colonies were getting disapeared like that was also having political knock-on effects with the Alliance. They were getting stressed the Council was ignoring the issue, and the other races would see it as Alliance weakness and maneuver for more political benefits. The problem of what the Collectors were doing needed to be solved regardless of whether they could have mounted a successful threat against Earth or not.

 

Well, that's questionable - as the Collector plan (making a human reaper) would never have worked unless they could target Earth, its really not clear that much needed to be done at all, unless somehow Shepard is convinced that human colonies in the Terminus systems are crucial to the well-being of the galaxy. It's a fairly minor issue, and again, the game doesn't present it as a matter of saving fringe colonies, it presents it as a matter of stopping the reapers. This seems much more like an oversight than an intended feature. If this is the only motivation, what need is there for a suicide mission?

 

You've been brought back from the dead after two years, you get shown this pattern of attacks and destroyed colonies. You get given data about a mysterious, race that seems to have very advanced tech. And then you find out that the Collectors were the very people that blew up the Normandy in the first place.

 

You go talk to Anderson and the Council, and they pretty much ignore you and tell you that your visions of Protheans and Reapers from the first game aren't real and they don't believe you. Anderson believes you, but can't actually help you in any real manner. Then later you find out he wasn't sure he could trust you and sent a member of your old crew out "undercover" to find out if Cerberus was behind the missing colonies.. The only people willing to give you resources to look into and potentially deal with the problem are a group you don't like and can't really trust. What are you going to do, walk away and ignore the situation? Or use the resources you can and prepare a backup plan?

 

I can tell you what I don't do - I don't go gather a bunch of squadmates and solve their personal issues, because that's just about the most nonsensical form of preparation for the "suicide mission" that I could possibly think of. Keep in mind, a lot of the reason that Anderson and the systems alliance weren't willing to help you is because you agreed to work for Cerberus in the first place. Doesn't make much sense.

 

At what point did Shephard and Co know that they only had the one ship? Sure, they encountered the same ship several times, but for all they knew, the Collectors might have had a full armada at their home of origin. Until they had definite knowledge, they have to act as if there might be a big fleet and a serious threat there...

 

This would be a great motivation to spend your efforts on gathering intel rather than squadmates. All of your preparations for the suicide mission would have been completely worthless against an enemy with a proper fleet (or even proper defenses for their only base). So, if you're arguing that not only was the Collector thread intended to be small, but that Shepard & Co. were intended to be too thick to realize that the Collector threat was small, then essentially they only succeed due to pure, unadulterated serendipity, as their preparations are completely and utterly moronic given the possible nature of the threat they'd have to face.

 

So, essentially, not only do you have a foe who aren't a major threat to alliance space and who could not fulfill what is ostensibly their main plan (building a human reaper), you have a protagonist who does not realize this but still proceeds to only make preparations that would be useful when this is the case. I'd say this makes precious little sense.

[Tale]

I think that Walters said on Twitter that the Collectors have more ships. Which could easily make them a more credible threat to Earth. But the game did imply that one single ship had enough pods to go after earth. Why would one ship have so many pods if they were to bring multiple ships? And if they have so many ships, was destroying a single Collector base and a single Collector ship much of an accomplishment?

 

But yeah, they are kind of making it up as they go along. I think they stated as much in an interview. Is that bad? Many of us will think so. It's not ideal. It definitely doesn't seem unusual, though.

[Gorth]

But yeah, they are kind of making it up as they go along. I think they stated as much in an interview. Is that bad? Many of us will think so. It's not ideal. It definitely doesn't seem unusual, though.

I think one problem may be that people, intentionally or not, equates The Smoking Man (sorry, just too many similarities to X-Files to not think of him) with Biowares writers and takes his words as the writers intentions.

 

If I look at isolated incidents, I see gaps and holes in the story, but if I take two steps back and look at the big picture, I see a relatively simple story. TIM is lying through his teeth to manipulate Shepard into doing his biddng to the best of his ability. Collectors, to the player, never really comes across as a major military threat, limiting themselves to hit and run attacks and on top of that, seems happy for the time being to target only human colonies in that frontier space section that seems to be *not* under Alliance jurisdiction. On the contrary, I got the feeling that they (the colonies) didn't like the Alliance and outright resented Soldier Girl (what's her name you seem to know from the past) for being there and trying to put up some planetary defences.

 

Maybe TIM has a suspicion that they are not a threat in a head on confrontation, but may be a strategic threat because their motives are unknown. Never saw that knee before it hit your crotch etc. They could have been building genetically engineered virus bombs for all we know.

 

So, he picks up a resourceful guy from the freezer, puts him in the defrost program and instills some angst and sense of impending doom in him and sends him off to do the hard and dirty work, maybe even surviving in the process.

 

Did anybody ever really verify that Earth was the target or was that just mentioned in passing by somebody impressed by the sheer size of the shelf space in the collector ship?

 

Maybe they had a plan to lure the Alliance fleet away from Earth and forgot to leave notes lying about with an exposition on their plans for world domination?

 

Honestly, I don't (or didn't) play Bioware games for their plots. Never cared much for saving Imoen either.

[Oblarg]

I mean, yes, that interpretation works, but only if you accept then that essentially everyone in the game other than TIM is a complete ****ing moron. Not only for not seeing that the Collectors are a non-threat and being easily manipulated, but because the steps they take to prepare to combat what they obviously perceive to be a big threat are complete nonsense. This is why I have a hard time believing that this was BioWare's intention. It seems to me far more likely that the Collectors were just thrown together as a clumsy way to link together a game which is composed of largely unrelated character-oriented missions - it really doesn't feel like much serious thought was put into making the whole thing come together in any coherent way (evidenced by the completely contrived "loyalty" mechanic, among other things).

Edited February 9, 2012 by Oblarg

[Nepenthe]

Considering that reapers made keepers, which was mentioned in ME1, I don't think there's any kind conflict about them making collectors and enslaving them or reapers enslaving organics in general. They are enslaving organics, because they hate them. Reapers use organics to better themselves. They harvest majority of organics and leave some behind to complete a task or two.

Hmmm, weren't the keepers actually robotics, instead of organic. Or do I miss-remember here?

Keepers are organic.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Good to see they're following trends in the food industry.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Zoraptor]

I mean, yes, that interpretation works, but only if you accept then that essentially everyone in the game other than TIM is a complete ****ing moron.

The evidence in the game is pretty consistent. It makes TIM look like he's lying, sure. Quelle surprise, there.

 

1) TIM is the one pushing the Collectors as the big bad. No one else (even the Alliance) is very concerned.

2) The evidence presented in game (running from Horizon, losing to NormandyII) suggests they aren't actually a huge threat, militarily. If TIM were an impeccable source that might be a problem, story wise, but he ain't.

3) They may be a threat in other ways. Ironically evidence suggests they may be more of a threat to large, mixed, concentrations of aliens (per the Omega plague) than large concentrations of humans.

 

It isn't even (that) contrived that Shephard gets lead around by the nose by TIM. He spent most of ME1 doing random quests on the word of random people, potentially including such heights of perspicacity as being manipulated by a blue chick mafiosa into bumping off two rival underworld kingpins.

[BobSmith101]

I blame the books personally. In order to "legitimise" the books there was a lot of revision between ME and ME2. If ME was ever meant to be a trilogy I don't think it was ever meant to be a Shepard trilogy. ME's design strongly suggests that, or the designers were idiots.

 

As for the game itself. After the steaming pile that was DA2 anything from EA/Bioware gets approached with extreme caution. Not only because of the quality of DA2 but also because of how they covered up the missing auto attack feature until the game was released. I no longer trust them so I won't pre-order.

[HoonDing]

It isn't even (that) contrived that Shephard gets lead around by the nose by TIM. He spent most of ME1 doing random quests on the word of random people, potentially including such heights of perspicacity as being manipulated by a blue chick mafiosa into bumping off two rival underworld kingpins.

Shepard is the dumbest video game protagonist ever, eclipsing even Serious Sam and Duke Nukem. Shepard's sadly even dumber than Roger Wilco and doesn't even get the chicks to compensate.

 

[Morgoth]

It isn't even (that) contrived that Shephard gets lead around by the nose by TIM. He spent most of ME1 doing random quests on the word of random people, potentially including such heights of perspicacity as being manipulated by a blue chick mafiosa into bumping off two rival underworld kingpins.

Shepard is the dumbest video game protagonist ever, eclipsing even Serious Sam and Duke Nukem. Shepard's sadly even dumber than Roger Wilco and doesn't even get the chicks to compensate.

 

 

[Drowsy Emperor]

Shepard is the dumbest video game protagonist ever, eclipsing even Serious Sam and Duke Nukem. Shepard's sadly even dumber than Roger Wilco and doesn't even get the chicks to compensate.

 

You're right. What little personality Shepard has is downright idiotic. I've never found it so hard to immerse myself in a videogame character as with Shepard.

[Oblarg]

I mean, yes, that interpretation works, but only if you accept then that essentially everyone in the game other than TIM is a complete ****ing moron.

The evidence in the game is pretty consistent. It makes TIM look like he's lying, sure. Quelle surprise, there.

 

1) TIM is the one pushing the Collectors as the big bad. No one else (even the Alliance) is very concerned.

2) The evidence presented in game (running from Horizon, losing to NormandyII) suggests they aren't actually a huge threat, militarily. If TIM were an impeccable source that might be a problem, story wise, but he ain't.

3) They may be a threat in other ways. Ironically evidence suggests they may be more of a threat to large, mixed, concentrations of aliens (per the Omega plague) than large concentrations of humans.

 

It isn't even (that) contrived that Shephard gets lead around by the nose by TIM. He spent most of ME1 doing random quests on the word of random people, potentially including such heights of perspicacity as being manipulated by a blue chick mafiosa into bumping off two rival underworld kingpins.

 

It is still very contrived, however, that Shepard, supposedly believing that the Collectors are some sort of legitimate threat, goes about preparing for his "suicide mission" by gathering a load of squadmates and then solving their family issues, only for the final battle to pan out in just the right way such that having done this becomes important. That just doesn't make any damn sense - of all the possible thing he might need to do to prepare to fight a foe he knows very little about, gathering a big crew of specialists is not a very good way to prepare.

[Hurlshort]

This thread is depressing.

 

I've had a blast taking Shepard through these games, I guess that makes me simple, but he's a Marine and he gets stuff done. You guys need to treat this game like a good night out on the town. Play it fast and easy, and don't look too closely at the bathrooms or the girl you take home. Good times

[Oner]

and don't look too closely at the girl you take home.

That's not very reassuring you know. :D

[Hurlshort]

and don't look too closely at the girl you take home.

That's not very reassuring you know. :D

 

I try not to look too closely at any of the video game characters I hook up with

[Tale]

This thread is depressing.

 

I've had a blast taking Shepard through these games, I guess that makes me simple, but he's a Marine and he gets stuff done. You guys need to treat this game like a good night out on the town. Play it fast and easy, and don't look too closely at the bathrooms or the girl you take home. Good times

I had a blast with ME2. But only because of the gameplay.

 

I can ignore stuff too. I don't particularly take issue with the absurdity of Asari reproduction. My "these guys aren't professional" is a nitpick that doesn't bother me as much. But the dialogue and scenes are still cringeworthy at times. It's less like going to a party, getting drunk, meeting a girl and trying not to regret it in the morning and more like going to a party, being surrounded by people who are already drunk, and won't stop talking about their political views and belief in balancing power of holograms and how you should totally try this homeopathic remedy. Yeah, dancing is fun, just stop talking. I cannot get drunk enough.

 

And once you're taken out of the fun, it's easier to see all the little nitpicks. Male Shepard's delivery is notorious with some people for being bad. I haven't listened to a supposedly rousing speech anywhere in the games that didn't make me wish for a concussion. But yeah, I still had fun. I just wish for that entire Salarian spec ops team to die because "hold the line" needs to never be heard again. And Liara can stay off my ship because if she says "embrace eternity" one more time the bad acid flashbacks won't be because of protean beacons, but my psychotic break.

 

All games need to be called out on their failures. That way they can improve.

 

In fairness, not everything that is said to be a failure necessarily is. People have a tendency to aim for "winning the argument" over actually presenting valid information. So if they dislike a game, they'll be more interested in insulting it than in telling what is genuinely wrong. This means overlooking, dismissing, or outright being deceptive about the things it does right. And despite my awareness of the fact, I am subject to that flaw as well. ME1 and NWN1 are blind spots in my objectivity.

[Gorgon]

Shepard is ill defined so you can better put yourself in his/her place. This is the norm isn't it. You people with your walls of text on ME3. It's so not worth the effort.

[Tale]

Who says he's ill defined?

[Nepenthe]