SW: The Old Republic Part 2

[ShadySands]

I really enjoyed the beta but I'm not too fond of the camera and I really wish that I could zoom out a bit farther

[Cantousent]

The issue with the military anology is that technically, as part of the US Navy, you can be courtmartialed... for doing any sort of sex other than missionary.

As far as I can tell, this is technically not true. There is an article in the UCMJ (which means all branches of the military) concerning sex, UCMJ article 125. You can get busted for anal or oral sex, but it says nothing about doggy style as long as penetration is in all the right slots. lol

But, then again, we've transcended the ridiculous and have gone straight to the sublime. The whole thing about the trooper sleeping on duty came from your experiences playing the beta, Super Cal. I was addressing a specific example you gave. Now, unless one of the scenarios in the game is that you have anal or oral sex with someone and suffer a courtmartial, I don't see this as an issue. Sleeping on watch is a serious problem. There is a reason why the maximum punishment is so severe. In times of war, sleeping on watch can literally end up getting you and your buddies killed. Sleeping on watch is not the equivalent of slipping it in the backdoor. Once again, I have never advocated executing folks for sleeping on watch. Aw hell, kll the messenger if you want, I guess. Maybe it's the wine talking, as I had decided to ignore this post. Then I figured, what the hell? You're used to arguing with me, Cal, and you did put in that 'technically' modifier.

 

For the record, non standard sexual act between consenting adults is one of the good things in life. I had to put that in just in case someone accuses me of saying something I didn't say about sexual proclivities.

 

EDIT: figured I'd cite the article.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Cantousent

[Ice9]

Well, I was able to putz around in the stress test this weekend. I had a good time; the Inquisitor storyline had me intrigued and I enjoy the caster mechanics, so I found my main at launch pretty easily. As somebody else mentioned a few pages earlier, I hit quicksave once or twice myself. I do admit that I'm partial to using the escape button to replaying dialog trees. I found myself being confused at dialog responses to the three word select a choice model that everything seems to be moving towards these days; I'm glad that there is an option to redo it.

[Maria Caliban]

Sleeping on watch is bad because of slavery and if you don't have laws then people will have oral sex.

 

Did anyone do Esselis? The first flashpoint for the Republic. I did it once last build when it was a four-man. How did you guys find it?

Edited November 29, 2011 by Maria Caliban

[Raithe]

Did anyone do Esselis? The first flashpoint for the Republic. I did it once last build when it was a four-man. How did you guys find it?

 

I managed to do Esseles and Hammer.

 

Esseles seemed quite smooth, and the conversation points slid in quite nicely - and I did it from the Republic side, you can do an Imperial version as well can't you?. At the time I seemed to be in a good group of four folks, and that certainly helped. It made a nice storyline, although the guy who had to take charge of the ship seemed a waay bit suspicious so half of us were waiting for him to be exposed as a traitor or something throughout most of it.

 

Hammer didn't seem to have as much in the way of dialogue to partake in, much more of a run around and kills things as you progressed the map. Certainly hard without the full team and a dedicated healer. What was a nice touch was that depending on crew-skills you had, there was potential to open up short-cuts or side-routes that would take you past encounters - scavening, kicked off some mining machines that bored through a wall, slicing hacking an elevator into activation. Small things you had to notice.

 

On an unrelated note, I have to say even while I was exploring worlds, I didn't see any holocrons around. Although I heard a few people mention them. Also, codex entries that could be in the environment for clicking on - pretty damn hard to notice. I do kind of think they should make them perhaps a wee bit more obvious rather then totally blend into the environment...

[Hurlshort]

I do admit that I'm partial to using the escape button to replaying dialog trees. I found myself being confused at dialog responses to the three word select a choice model that everything seems to be moving towards these days; I'm glad that there is an option to redo it.

 

Wait, you can replay dialogue? How?

 

I think Holocrons might have been disabled, there were some issues with them in a previous build. There is a really easy to find one on Korriban, that was the only one I ever found.

[Raithe]

I do admit that I'm partial to using the escape button to replaying dialog trees. I found myself being confused at dialog responses to the three word select a choice model that everything seems to be moving towards these days; I'm glad that there is an option to redo it.

 

Wait, you can replay dialogue? How?

 

I think Holocrons might have been disabled, there were some issues with them in a previous build. There is a really easy to find one on Korriban, that was the only one I ever found.

 

If you hit escape, it takes you out of the conversation before it finishes. Space will skip the dialogue to the "choose response" part. And I can agree, sometimes the short words choices don't always react in the way you expected them to. Flirting also seemed to bounce wildly from entertaining/smart moments of teasing flirtatious play with words, to some really braindead jock style "me like you, lets go play doctor" type. It would be nice if they actually balanced those sorts of things out.

 

Hm, I found one holocron, but that seemed to be part of the whole "introduction to the game" type of situation, rather then one that you actually find on your own. I'd bet every class has that on their starting world.

[kirottu]

Did anyone do Esselis? The first flashpoint for the Republic. I did it once last build when it was a four-man. How did you guys find it?

 

I did try it, but I got DCed when we got to the imperial ship. When I got back I was inside the republic and no way to get to the imperial ship. Up to that point it had been solid enough... perhaps bit too much dialogue though. If end game instances have that much dialogue and choices it becomes a chore to repeat.

 

All in all I was slightly disappointed by SW:TOR. Mainly by the two features that been marketed as it's key selling points: story and "full VO".

 

Story was disappointing, because it didn't affect the game world at all(kinda). I had understood from somewhere that this game would use phasing quite a lot, but the way it used it was just really weak. Basically you have a room that is phased and only you can go there and after the phase has been completed you can't go back there. So basically nothing happens.

 

Phasing is done quite beautifully in WoW's death knight's starting area where the whole area changes as you do quests. To compare that to a small room for a one person(or a group) that get's locked afterwards is just... meh.

 

"Full VO", meaning every character that has something to say has a voice over. This means quest givers(trainers and shop keepers have like one line) are the only ones you can interact with. Everyone else is a ghost: no name, no click, no nothing.

 

I think the most accurate description of SW:TOR would be vanilla World of Warcraft 1.1 with class stories and VO. It's not bad enough to be called outdated and not good enough to be called a classic.

 

I'm still going to buy it and play it for couple of months.

[Gfted1]

I think the most accurate description of SW:TOR would be vanilla World of Warcraft 1.1 with class stories and VO. It's not bad enough to be called outdated and not good enough to be called a classic.

 

 

Dammit! I wish you would have posted this yesterday before I bought the game.

[Calax]

Actually, I think the way TOR uses phasing is better than WoW. The issue with WoW is that with the heavy use of phasing found in the newer zones and the DK starter, you can't actually have your friends zip in to help you out if you're in a bad spot (like being camped by an enemy). As they will usually be in a seperate phase from you.

 

The way TOR does it, you're always in the same phase as the others on the map, but you can slip into your story area and not have to wait 10 minutes for the 12 mobs you need to kill to respawn and pray you hit them before the other six guys do.

[Azdeus]

Yes, that is an downside to phasing, but it goes both ways, you can't be corpsecamped by people that are phased either.

[Cantousent]

I think the most accurate description of SW:TOR would be vanilla World of Warcraft 1.1 with class stories and VO. It's not bad enough to be called outdated and not good enough to be called a classic.

How slavish are they to PvP? One of my beefs with WoW is that I thought they sacrificed a lot for the sake of PvP.

 

The way TOR does it, you're always in the same phase as the others on the map, but you can slip into your story area and not have to wait 10 minutes for the 12 mobs you need to kill to respawn and pray you hit them before the other six guys do.

Now this sounds like a real plus, but does raise a question. Is it open world like WoW, or more like everything's instanced like CoH/CoV?

Edited November 29, 2011 by Cantousent

[Hurlshort]

I'm pretty sure I've clicked on people and gotten little responses out of them. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't think they are all ghosts. I know they have little conversations with each other that you can overhear. I remember enjoying a drill sergeant laying into a group of imperial troops on Dromund Kaas as well.

 

Also, the voice work is remarkable for me. Aside from an annoying person here and there (just like real life!) I've found everyone engaging. Some of the Imperial snark is just fantastic and has me grinning like crazy.

 

I can understand the concerns with not having a real impact storywise. It's a very tough situation for an MMO. I've been happy with the phasing though, and while the world around me doesn't alter dramatically with my actions, the reactions and conversations with NPC's do respond well to my reputation.

[Raithe]

You do get to overhear a few fun conversations as you wander around, and I have to say this.. the background music is really damn good. You've got the familiar star wars tunes, the tunes reminiscent of star wars scores and it pretty much always works with the atmosphere of what you're doing and where you are.

 

I can't say anything about PvP. I got lost in the PvE content.

 

Seriously, solo'ing most of it just felt like a massive Kotor game. While the world didn't seem to change per se to what I'd done, character interaction did to some extent or another.

[Calax]

The way TOR does it, you're always in the same phase as the others on the map, but you can slip into your story area and not have to wait 10 minutes for the 12 mobs you need to kill to respawn and pray you hit them before the other six guys do.

Now this sounds like a real plus, but does raise a question. Is it open world like WoW, or more like everything's instanced like CoH/CoV?

It's more like the WoW model. There are smaller instanced areas for your class story and for flashpoints, but most of it takes place out in the open world.

 

They do denote when you're going into an area where you really should have a group to do the quests and kill the guys in the area.

[Raithe]

Stephen Reid confirmed via Twitter that the Star Wars: The Old Republic testers from the Thanksgiving Beta Weekend will be able to be patch their game client for Early Game Access and Release. As such, players should keep their game installation intact on their computers. For players who tested the game prior to November 25th, however, Mr. Reid recommends a clean installation of the game client.

[Maria Caliban]

On an unrelated note, I have to say even while I was exploring worlds, I didn't see any holocrons around. Although I heard a few people mention them. Also, codex entries that could be in the environment for clicking on - pretty damn hard to notice. I do kind of think they should make them perhaps a wee bit more obvious rather then totally blend into the environment...

 

 

I think Holocrons might have been disabled, there were some issues with them in a previous build. There is a really easy to find one on Korriban, that was the only one I ever found.

 

 

Hm, I found one holocron, but that seemed to be part of the whole "introduction to the game" type of situation, rather then one that you actually find on your own. I'd bet every class has that on their starting world.

 

Datacrons are enabled. There are three for each starter world and around five to eight for every world thereafter. You can go to the 'planet' entry in the Codex to tell you how many datacrons are on any particular planet you've visited.

 

During the beta, they didn't give you the attribute boost listed because the devs didn't want those screwing with their data.

 

I'm not sure if they're deliberately hiding the lore objects or not. Like the datacrons, they count for your codex entry titles and I believe there are title rewards for getting enough of them. At the same time, some are really obvious. They've said they're an element for 'explorer' types.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Maria Caliban

[Hurlshort]

I love the lore objects. I'll probably wander around doing them all at release.

[Gromnir]

have not played an mmo in over a decade, so am a complete n00b with such stuff. we noticed at the swtor board there were mentions o' class skills... but such skills didn't seems to work as kotor, nwn, d&d or other crpg skills we is familiar with. can somebody explain or link us to an explanation?

 

also, we read some blogs from folks who has played and a recurring complaint we saw were regarding customization-- the lack o' it. appears that physical customization of avatar is limited, and that abilities/powhaz customization is also pretty limited. meet one 23rd level sith sorcerer and you has met virtual all 23rd level sith sorcerers. advanced classes bifurcate the core classes, but is that enough to keeps interesting? anybody that has played got an opinion on swtor customization?

 

we got some time-off in the near future, and we has been gifted with a copy o' swtor, so we will probable fiddle with the game a bit, but am looking for feedback... feedback w/o having to deal with the bio/ea/lucasarts boards.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we sure as hell ain't gonna take oner advice to play for an entire month before judging.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Gromnir

[Raithe]

have not played an mmo in over a decade, so am a complete n00b with such stuff. we noticed at the swtor board there were mentions o' class skills... but such skills didn't seems to work as kotor, nwn, d&d or other crpg skills we is familiar with. can somebody explain or link us to an explanation?

 

also, we read some blogs from folks who has played and a recurring complaint we saw were regarding customization-- the lack o' it. appears that physical customization of avatar is limited, and that abilities/powhaz customization is also pretty limited. meet one 23rd level sith sorcerer and you has met virtual all 23rd level sith sorcerers. advanced classes bifurcate the core classes, but is that enough to keeps interesting? anybody that has played got an opinion on swtor customization?

 

Hm, from what I've seen, I wouldn't say that meet one and you've met them all. It is literally impossible to select all the possible advanced class tweaks.

 

Okay, let's see if I can explain this in a manner that's actually comprehensible..

 

There are Abilities that your class picks up that you actually "buy" from a trainer. So that every Trooper, every Smuggler, Every Jedi /Sith etc will have as they go up levels. Each Advanced Class also has some talents that you "buy" from a trainer as well, but only those of that advanced class has access. As you level up, better versions of those skills are available as well.

 

DarthHater - Abilities - There's a handy dandy list, showing all the assorted Abilities, the classes they go with, and the levels they become available at.

 

The bit where ability customisation really comes into it are the talent trees. Darth Hater - Talent Calculator

 

Each class shares a single Talent Tree, and you get access to another two Talent Tree's depending on your Advanced Class. - All Jedi Knights have Focus Talent tree, but Sentinel has Combat and Watchman Trees, while the Guardian has Defense and Vigilance Trees.

 

By 50th level you will have 49 points to spend, and that really shapes exactly your character in a lot of ways. It refines/improves skills and opens up new Abilities as well. If you want the really advanced options, you're going to have to be quite focused on a specific Talent tree. If you spread your talents around, you're not going to get that far up the tree. You have to spend 5 points on each level of the tree before you get access to the level above..

 

It can make a big deal on whether you're Trooper can effectively heal, or tank or just do mass aoe damage or what.. So two commando's could be very different in what they can do.

 

Visually, there is a lot of variety to the armour that you could pick up, and that could change how you look. They have it pretty much locked in that you won't get rewards/items for quests that aren't actually usable by your class. So as a Trooper, I pretty much only got credits, guns, armour, or commendations as rewards. - Each world gives out "world commendations" for various things, and you can use them as a special form of currency to pick up items as well. Throw in the various crafting skills, I'm sure you can end up with something quite different visually. I do remember hearing something about being able to make sure colors matched, but I didn't actually find anything to do that... not that I actually looked that hard.

 

Physical alteration of your character , well pretty much the body is on a thin-fat (big boned) physique, and then the face has the type of slider setup of DragonAge. Note - each race has different setup for exactly what you can alter. Also, races that can be both Imperial and Republic have differences. So there are variations you can have as a Human or Twilek if you're Republic that you don't get access to if you were Human/Twilek for the Empire. And vice versa.

 

Edit: Nearly forgot something...

Edited November 29, 2011 by Raithe

[Oner]

ps we sure as hell ain't gonna take oner advice to play for an entire month before judging.

I only mean that every mmo (well, with the exception of the free to play ones) seems awesome at first, but after a while you start seeing the problems.

Like how in GW1, warriors don't get condition removing skills, and can be shut down completely with one condition/curse/etc. This can be remedied later on, but still...

[Calax]

Just a note, you'll only have 40odd talents when you hit 50 because you don't get them from levels 1-10 (nor do you have the advanced classes).

 

Also, the two sides classes, while named differently and using different animations, are exactly the same in terms of ability's damage and style. The only difference is (for the Consular/Inquisitor for example) wether you want to blast lightning or fling rocks.

[Hurlshort]

Yes, some people play an MMO for about 300 hours and then proclaim it is garbage

 

Raithe gave a great summary.

 

There was an option in an earlier beta to match all armor color to your chestpiece. They didn't have it enable in the latest build, I have no idea why. I'm hoping it will be back for release. They have done a good job of keeping the armor somewhat coordinated, rather than the fashion nightmares you get in many other MMO's.

[Maria Caliban]

Also, the two sides classes, while named differently and using different animations, are exactly the same in terms of ability's damage and style. The only difference is (for the Consular/Inquisitor for example) wether you want to blast lightning or fling rocks.

But advanced classes from the same base class are mechanically different. A Consular can be a Sage, which specializes in flinging rocks or healing, or a Shadow, which is a stealth melee class that can tank.

[Cantousent]

Do you still have the same dynamic with tanks, heals, melee dps, and range dps?

 

I tanked through Arthas before the next xpac and then switched to healer.

 

If I could get enough mileage from the quests, then maybe I'd be able to take Hurlies advice and not get caught up in maintaining end game raiding skills and kit.

 

How does the game stack up agains WoW in terms of crafting and other non-combat stuff? I mean, I actually enjoyed crafting quite a bit, even stuff like fishing and cooking were a lot of fun. Hell, I would have left WoW even sooner if I hadn't had fun finding stuff using archaeology.

 

The fact that you can phase into your own separate instance area so you aren't competing with every other sorry bastard trying to kill the same three mobs is good news, but the overall talent trees sounds pretty much like WoW as far as I can tell. ...And will I be stuck in hours of theorycraft in order to be an effective [insert role here]?