Lexx Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) I still remember that a little bit, was a pretty filthy move. Afair they wanted to lure him to america with a job offer, but the german police got inbetween and took him out before he was sitting in the plane. Edited June 15, 2011 by Lexx "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."
sorophx Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) browsed through the whole thread, should've done it earlier... anyway, everything Slowtrain says about the first Deus Ex and C&C in video games is spot on. I'm so glad I never played DX, so I don't have this "oh my god, I hope Human Revolution plays like DX" fixation. judging by a very thorough let's play on YouTube, DX was a pile of crap with a cherry on top of it (being the skill system) Edited June 17, 2011 by sorophx Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Raithe Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 browsed through the whole thread, should've done it earlier... anyway, everything Slowtrain says about the first Deus Ex and C&C in video games is spot on. I'm so glad I never played DX, so I don't have this "oh my god, I hope Human Revolution plays like DX" fixation. judging by a very thorough let's play on YouTube, DX was a pile of crap with a cherry on top of it (being the skill system) I think it is kind of hard to judge it nowadays if you never experienced it back then. (wow, that sounds kind of gaming snob like). The graphics were a little rough, but it really was one of the first games to cross-genres and mix it up in quite that way. And to throw in the multiple paths approach in such a nicely tuned manner. It just had a knack for drawing players into it and getting them interested in the world, the story, and figuring out all the different ways you could do stuff. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Hell Kitty Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Wait, what did slowtrain say that you think is spot on that lead to you thinking DX was a pile of crap? Because I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of what slowtrain thinks.
Slowtrain Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I think Deus Ex is totally fab. n ALthough after 962 playthroughs, I'm a little tired of it now. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Hassat Hunter Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 DX was a pile of crap with a cherry on top of it (being the skill system) Wait, what? And that on the forum of an RPG-developer even...? I don't even know... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Morgoth Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Deus Ex ain't an RPG. And for todays standards, it is crap. A 1000 years ago however when I played it, it was like the best thing ever. Things are changing. As for HR, well, it better has an engaging, non-silly story, otherwise it will be "just" a nice FPS hybrid with pompous art direction. Rain makes everything better.
Nepenthe Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Deus Ex ain't an RPG. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
HoonDing Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 And for todays standards, it is crap. A 1000 years ago however when I played it, it was like the best thing ever. Things are changing. "Todays standards" aren't worth much to begin with. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Hassat Hunter Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 And for todays standards, it is crap. I suppose graphics-wise, you are right. But is that really the ony important thing? For the rest; I have no idea what may be "outdated"??? ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Morgoth Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 "Todays standards" aren't worth much to begin with. Todays standards are usually a lot higher than they were 10 years ago. But I see where you're coming from... Rain makes everything better.
sorophx Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Wait, what did slowtrain say that you think is spot on that lead to you thinking DX was a pile of crap? he said it was a very simplistic game with no meaningful C&C whatsoever, but with an elaborate skill/aug system (that got dumped in the sequel). after seeing the levels and the enemies I am convinced, it's trash. I'm not pretending my opinion is the only right one, of course. Like I said, Operation Flashpoint was the paragon of FPS games for me. what I can't comment on is this "multiple paths approach", I don't know what's that all about. a lot of shooters at the time had levels designed with detours and shortcuts, if that's what you mean Edited June 17, 2011 by sorophx Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Slowtrain Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Wait, what did slowtrain say that you think is spot on that lead to you thinking DX was a pile of crap? he said it was a very simplistic game with no meaningful C&C whatsoever, but with an elaborate skill/aug system (that got dumped in the sequel). Yup, DX is often credited with an overabundance of C&C. For some reason. But it's really just the opposite. The story is pretty much on rails amd the choices that you do make through 95% of the game have extremely minor consequences. Its also got extra bad AI, poor FPS combat, and bizarre little gameplay mechanics like being able to walk up to somebody's computer and hack into it while they are standing RIGHT THERE and they don't react with more than a "Knock it off" or some such. Despite that, I still think its one of the best games ever made. It's a perfect example of something where the whole is far far greater than the sum of its parts. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Raithe Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 he said it was a very simplistic game with no meaningful C&C whatsoever, but with an elaborate skill/aug system (that got dumped in the sequel). after seeing the levels and the enemies I am convinced, it's trash. I'm not pretending my opinion is the only right one, of course. Like I said, Operation Flashpoint was the paragon of FPS games for me. what I can't comment on is this "multiple paths approach", I don't know what's that all about. a lot of shooters at the time had levels designed with detours and shortcuts, if that's what you mean It wasn't just the physical level design. Pretty much all of it was geared towards you not being stuck on a single play style. You could treat it as a shooter and go through it like that, but you could turn sneaky and bypass things, you could hack systems to bypass, and a few points where simple conversation would get you around.. Quite often a combination of all of that provided the most fun. Part of it was exploring the world to find those sorts of alternate ways to do a mission or to get to a location. Throw in some of the background fluff, the books you could find and read, the newspaper articles, something about it gelled in a way that's kept DE in that top 10 rpg lists for the past decade. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
sorophx Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 my friends thought System Shock 2 was a lot better. nobody liked DX, I'm quite surprised it's getting so much praise today Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
Slowtrain Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 my friends thought System Shock 2 was a lot better. nobody liked DX, I'm quite surprised it's getting so much praise today Well System SHock 2 is totally fab as well. ANd to my mind, the better game. But that isn't meant to put down DX. The best part of DX is in the level design and character building and the exploration and the freedom to achieve objectives in how you see fit to do so.. EVery level in the game, and they are huge, is an entire game experience in itself. ANd the linear narrative, while set in stone for the most part, is still pretty good. AT least by computer game standards. The only games I've ever played that competes with DX in terms of this fre-form approach to objectives and brilliant level design are Thief 1 and Thief 2. WHich are also fab. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Lexx Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Well, despite the graphics, it was a really good game when it has been released. Also DX didn't got "shortcuts" and such, but "alternative paths" - they often are at the same lenght than the "normal" path, but they are different. Like it was written above already, you could play it as a generic shooter, you could sneak past all enemies, hell, you don't need to fire a gun in most cases. Additionally all that text, newspapers, notes and so on. Also if I remember correct, DX was one of the first games with fully voiced dialogues and it was quite a lot dialogue (especially for a shooter). I love SystemShock 2 as well, but for me it's totally not like DX1. "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."
sorophx Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 so, you'd get skill points for completing objectives in DX? and you'd get none for killing enemies, right? one thing that bothers me in HR is that you get 50 xp for silently taking down an enemy (non-lethal) compared to 10 xp for gunning him down. so a stealth approach is a lot more rewarding, which kind of defeats the whole concept of "play through it the way you like". getting bonuses for not having been spotted during a mission in form of side quests or branching paths is one thing, but directly rewarding the player with more points to spend on augmentations feels out of place Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
vault_overseer Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 ohhai If you're psyched for DE:HR, i highly recommend reading the tie in novel. It's quite enjoyable.
Orogun01 Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 so, you'd get skill points for completing objectives in DX? and you'd get none for killing enemies, right? one thing that bothers me in HR is that you get 50 xp for silently taking down an enemy (non-lethal) compared to 10 xp for gunning him down. so a stealth approach is a lot more rewarding, which kind of defeats the whole concept of "play through it the way you like". getting bonuses for not having been spotted during a mission in form of side quests or branching paths is one thing, but directly rewarding the player with more points to spend on augmentations feels out of place Gunning him down will alert everyone in the area making one kill turn into a firefight that yields potentially the same. Point it's that on a stealth approach you handle fewer enemies. They fixed that on HR, though. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Morgoth Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Good job stirring up all the grognards, Morg. I'm not doing this on purpose, really. It's just that people need to stop calling Deus Ex an RPG. Rain makes everything better.
Purkake Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I think people need to stop taking arbitrary labels seriously. I could call it a flight simulator, and we'd still have played the exact same game in the end.
Slowtrain Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Good job stirring up all the grognards, Morg. We just slumber uneasily. It doesn't take much to wake us up. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
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