Oblarg Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'm not ignoring failings, I don't see the failings. Star Forge being a space toaster isn't a problem, it wasn't supposed to be a sentient evil being. Really I don't see anything silly about it, in a modern war destroying the enemy's means of production is a priority. In ME the entire premise of Reapers unable to get back home like ET was ridiculous from the start. That's not a minor plot hole Oblarg, that's the foundation of the plot. What's ridiculous about it? You're construing it as "evil monsters accidentally got lost and can't find their way back," which isn't at all the way it was presented. They had a calculated plan which had worked time and time again and which makes a fair bit of sense, regardless of you denying it, and the story is about the breaking of the cycle. There's nothing silly about that. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 We keep going like that we are going to eventually go over all the variation of the "monomyth". I don't even care about all the plot holes, I could had look past them and the wasted codex. But the dialog was just awful, I mean MaleShep is like a crossbreed of James Bond and Zapp Brannigan. All the one liners and Saturday morning cartoon writing. What bothers me the most is that I know they are capable of more but seem content to "reach a broader audience" by dumbing down their games. Basically I'm tired of everyone calling games an art form when the best they done it's stroke the egos of a bunch of teenagers. And then they ask why everyone thinks video games are for kids. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 We keep going like that we are going to eventually go over all the variation of the "monomyth". I don't even care about all the plot holes, I could had look past them and the wasted codex. But the dialog was just awful, I mean MaleShep is like a crossbreed of James Bond and Zapp Brannigan. All the one liners and Saturday morning cartoon writing. What bothers me the most is that I know they are capable of more but seem content to "reach a broader audience" by dumbing down their games. Basically I'm tired of everyone calling games an art form when the best they done it's stroke the egos of a bunch of teenagers. And then they ask why everyone thinks video games are for kids. No one ever buys BioWare games for good dialogue, or at least no one with any sense does. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'm not ignoring failings, I don't see the failings. Star Forge being a space toaster isn't a problem, it wasn't supposed to be a sentient evil being. Really I don't see anything silly about it, in a modern war destroying the enemy's means of production is a priority. In ME the entire premise of Reapers unable to get back home like ET was ridiculous from the start. That's not a minor plot hole Oblarg, that's the foundation of the plot. No.. it wasn't that they couldn't get home, it was that they had to be notified. The reapers are in darkspace (as in BEYOND THE GALACTIC RIM) and are currently in stasis (to conserve power given the only other source they'd have would be starlight and their internal fuel). The idea of the reapers is that one reaper stays hidden in the galaxy and wakes up every so often to check the standard tech level of sentient species, if they're at a specific point it triggers a pulse that causes the keepers to basically summon the other reapers to cull the galaxy and start the cycle over. As to the distances and tech thing... the only time we've seen a fight involving battleships has been the Citadel fight where most of what we saw was the ships being surprised and bum rushed. Although part of that is also dramatic license as most people wouldn't find two black dots sending light beams at each other very interesting. As to the "cultural individuality of tech", I think at some point in ME1 Soverign mentions that the Reapers specifically designed the Mass Effect Relay system to channel species along a very specific technological and Sociological lines so that they become dependent on the tech that the Reapers gave out. So Aesthetically things would probably be different, but in terms of mechanics they aren't to different. Basically it's how guns are now, you always know that one end goes bang and should be pointed at the enemy. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'm not ignoring failings, I don't see the failings. Star Forge being a space toaster isn't a problem, it wasn't supposed to be a sentient evil being. Really I don't see anything silly about it, in a modern war destroying the enemy's means of production is a priority. In ME the entire premise of Reapers unable to get back home like ET was ridiculous from the start. That's not a minor plot hole Oblarg, that's the foundation of the plot. No.. it wasn't that they couldn't get home, it was that they had to be notified. The reapers are in darkspace (as in BEYOND THE GALACTIC RIM) and are currently in stasis (to conserve power given the only other source they'd have would be starlight and their internal fuel). The idea of the reapers is that one reaper stays hidden in the galaxy and wakes up every so often to check the standard tech level of sentient species, if they're at a specific point it triggers a pulse that causes the keepers to basically summon the other reapers to cull the galaxy and start the cycle over. As to the distances and tech thing... the only time we've seen a fight involving battleships has been the Citadel fight where most of what we saw was the ships being surprised and bum rushed. Although part of that is also dramatic license as most people wouldn't find two black dots sending light beams at each other very interesting. As to the "cultural individuality of tech", I think at some point in ME1 Soverign mentions that the Reapers specifically designed the Mass Effect Relay system to channel species along a very specific technological and Sociological lines so that they become dependent on the tech that the Reapers gave out. So Aesthetically things would probably be different, but in terms of mechanics they aren't to different. Basically it's how guns are now, you always know that one end goes bang and should be pointed at the enemy. I don't know, I think space battles in which you couldn't visually see the other ship shooting at you could be really suspenseful if done right. It's an opportunity they missed out on. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 True. But in ME it'd be REALLY tough to pull it off. I mean basically all space based combat is going to be Sub warfare and Mass Effect doesn't exactly have the right tone for Sub Warfare. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I find it somewhat disturbing that all you guys who apparently hate the games so much still have in-universe knowledge that beats mine hands down. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr insomniac Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) I find it somewhat disturbing that all you guys who apparently hate the games so much still have in-universe knowledge that beats mine hands down. Same here. Although I will add it's likely the keepers would have 'cleaned up' any messages or warnings left on the Citadel by the Protheans during the intervening 50,000 years between reaper visits... Er, not intended as a direct reply to a comment of yours, Nepenthe, but it was mentioned earlier in the thread. Edited February 11, 2011 by mr insomniac I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God. So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me? Nothing personal. It's just revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't think I've seen a single of the "dozens of plot holes" that keep getting brought up that I couldn't easily refute. Of course, I haven't bothered to learn the codex by heart, so I can't comment on the internal consistency, and trying to argue with you guys would be about as fruitful as pissing into the wind, but I'll address the point of "boohoo, the space battles aren't as they should be according to the codex!!11" 1) Codex explanation is for how dreadnoughts, the biggest ships do battle. We've only seen two, destiny ascension and Sovereign. 2) The "battle" for citadel is, of course, different from the norm since it has Sovereign not even attempting to take out Destiny Ascension, but instead making a straight beeline for the Presidium tower (and ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL of its systems). 3) Normandy vs. Collector cruiser has no dreadnoughts and has a recon ship fight a medium sized cruiser on both occasions. First time by getting ambushed, the second time by ambushing it. Problem deconstructed and dismissed (like the Reapers). Which one should I do next? You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I find it somewhat disturbing that all you guys who apparently hate the games so much still have in-universe knowledge that beats mine hands down. I love ME2. The setting makes me want to flip off a box of kittens. DAO's no better and we've all seen me gush over that. Thankfully, I don't buy games for the setting. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I find it somewhat disturbing that all you guys who apparently hate the games so much still have in-universe knowledge that beats mine hands down. You have to like both ? Not disturbing at all. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 "ME is an infinitely inferior attempt to copy KOTOR in a lot of ways, that doesn't speak well for ME." L0L This is hialrious. ME series is vastly sueprior to KOTOR series in every way possible. ME is definitely an attempt to do BIO's own version of SW, and it does a heck of a job. KOTOR is a slightly above average game with horrible dumbed down combat and one nice twist. ME is just plain awesome. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 a slightly above average game with horrible dumbed down combat and one nice twist. wow, you just characterized both ME games Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'd rate KotOR and ME about equal. Neither are as good as KotOR2. Both are better than ME2. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 are both overrated average games. ME1 and ME2 are light years better than both of that trashy series. No contest. ME series takes all the good from KOTOR series and makes it better and takes all the crappy aspects of KOTOR eries and improved it big time. ME series > KOTOR series No contest. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'd stab ME1 in the eye with a rusted spork. If it had an eye. And I had a rusted spork. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 i like these debates in my current mood: 1. ME2 and KOTOR 2 (is tie) 2. ME1 3. KOTOR 1 Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 According to my personal feelings, Bioware is getting better with every game. ME2 > DA > ME1 > JE Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 you almost make it sound like BG never happened seriously, they dropped the ball Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 you almost make it sound like BG never happened seriously, they dropped the ball BG was good for it's time but nowadays I couldn't play that turd for 5 minutes. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can't play BG. But BG 2 will be playable until someone else makes a game with Wild Mages. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 are both overrated average games. ME1 and ME2 are light years better than both of that trashy series. No contest. ME series takes all the good from KOTOR series and makes it better and takes all the crappy aspects of KOTOR eries and improved it big time. ME series > KOTOR series No contest. Except for the fact that KotOR2 has better writing than pretty much any game BioWare has ever made. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What would be an example of great writing in K2? "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What would be an example of great writing in K2? Kreia, HK-47. TBH, I can't find an example of bad writing. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 When rating the Bioware stable of games, I find it is best to implement an advanced and sophisticated system of trigonometric equations so I can really get into the gritty details and pick them all apart with maximum anal-osity. After years of research and number crunching, I came up with surprising results... But if I share them, you guys wouldn't have anything to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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