the " a tired dev" comment on Joystiq

[yoomazir]

Hey guys, I just wanted to link the Joystiq AP review where one of the users commentaries is supposed from someone who worked on AP, I don't know if what he says is true or not but if it was true I guess it would be a shame.

I played all of the Obsidian games (except NWN2:SoZ expansion) and I'm still getting AP next week and I'm sure I'm gonna enjoy playing it but I just can't stop wondering what if the developement would have been different.

 

the link: http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/28/alpha-pr...view/3#comments

 

 

As for the " the tired dev" comment, here's what he says:

 

"a tired dev @ May 28th 2010 2:37PM

 

I worked on this game (a fact of which I am not proud). I'm not here to defend it; I agree with all these reviews.

 

First, a comment for the guy at Cheesecake Factory - Most devs eat in the office most days, if they do go out they tend to grab something at the food court and head back. I know the execs take long lunches, but they often use them for informal meetings as well. Most of the programmers and designers very rarely ate outside the office during the time I was on this project.

 

There was a ton of work put into this game. The problem is that is was a ton of undirected work, or work on things that were just stupid. The Executive Producer for the game, Chris Parker (also an owner of the company), seemed to think he was the world's greatest designer ever, and created all these absolutely ****ty systems and wouldn't listen to any of the real designers or devs about things that just didn't work. And you can't exactly argue with one of the owners of the company when he doesn't want to listen. He basically took over the game and dictated exactly how everything would work (or not work, as the case may be). The other producers realized this early on and just gave up, leaving Parker to micromanage all the designers and programmers directly.

 

Sega also was a factor, because they kept changing the design requirements (yes they had heavy influence there), which never gave the producers and designers time to actually decide on one set of features to make and polish. The blame is still mostly Obsidian's because the execution was absolutely terrible, and it was obvious 2 years ago that this game should have been scrapped. Instead, though, they focused on adding still more features and never fixed the ones they already had. That is a recipe for tons of bugs and no polish... as is obvious.

 

This game was just an absolute failure of production, and it's no wonder that so many of the developers left the company, even after the 40% staff layoffs. I am still happy about some of Obsidian's other current projects, New Vegas included, because they are going pretty well. Their big unannounced project is looking great and is already much better than AP ever was, and that may end up being the game that everyone was looking for with AP.

 

Sega should have canceled AP instead of Aliens..."

Edited May 29, 2010 by yoomazir

[Morgoth]

Already posted, but I doubt it's legitimate. Usually (Ex) employees shouldn't talk bad about their employers.

[Starwars]

If this *is* indeed true, then yeah... I mean, I think we can all relate to the fact that development hasn't been as smooth as it should have been. On the other hand, the comments about Parker sounds like a childish grudge if you read it. It might be the case that it is true, but judging from this post, this mysterious dev also doesn't sound like an employee I'd like working under me.

 

So yeah, I'm sure there production problems (and I hope OEI will get better at managing that stuff, seriously). But the developers who've been a part of this should be proud of the game, because it rocks. It seems a lot of effort went into the choices and customizing the storyline and that is a step that the industry needs really badly with its crappy plots which you can't affect in any way whatsoever. While a lot of the story is still set, AP makes the player a really important part of how it's told. Sadly, I don't think a lot of people recognize this (or even acknowledge it as important).

[funcroc]

If it is true, F:NV and Obsidian's new project will be great.

[WorstUsernameEver]

If it is true, F:NV and Obsidian's new project will be great.

 

But that's about the only bright thing I see in it.

Point is.. it seems credible.

It's either a (former?) dev post or has been posted by someone who has some very strong (bad) feelings against Obsidian.. or a troll. But somehow, I don't think a troll would actually work so much about a troll post, or even inform himself about how development works, unless he already knows.

 

It is anonymous, it fits with the informations we have about the development cycle of the game etc...

Granted, even if it's true, you can feel the bias of the poster, against Chris Parker (who knows? he may have something to say about this), against SEGA and against the project itself (after all, if you work undirected for a long time, when feeling the other canceled project is strongest, you may very well end up hating the game you're working on), and (as I've already repeated so much that I think people should already pretty much know at this point)... I'll reserve my judgment for when I play the game (as it should be).

Edited May 29, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[Kaftan Barlast]

Im not surpised.

[funcroc]

it's no wonder that so many of the developers left the company, even after the 40% staff layoffs.

 

I think that quote is definitely wrong.

[Volourn]

I don't take anonymous psotings seriously. The guy has no guts, and is therefore a pathetic piece of crap.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I don't take anonymous psotings seriously. The guy has no guts, and is therefore a pathetic piece of crap.

 

From his POV though, he has to work for a living. Would you really compromise your work just to show that you have 'guts' ?

Granted, even if it's true there is a lot of bias and probably a bit of hatred/jealousy too in that post (maybe HE was one of the 'real designer' that tried to make Chris Parker change his ideas?), but, and I'm telling you, BUT, if the post is true, it also casts a shadow on Obsidian's next projects.

If Obsidian has indeed such a bad project management, then I'm not sure if I really would like to buy another game.

[fuZZ]

What a terrible chap he is!

Edited May 29, 2010 by SteveThaiBinh
To remove bad language

[Toe Tagger Joe]

I don't take anonymous postings seriously.

 

Same here, I doubt he's anything more than a troll and a damn good one at that.

 

I'm not defending Sega, Obsidian or anyone else (for all I know there could be management issues). Just saying the guys a damn good troll. He is, he got this topic going. If you're reading this, congratulations sir.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Toe Tagger Joe

[Paraclete]

I don't take anonymous psotings seriously. The guy has no guts, and is therefore a pathetic piece of crap.

You do realize that the vast majority of ANY posted information on webforums is anonymous and full of **** right?

 

Funny that you call someone who might/might not be a developer "guy has no guts, and is therefore a pathetic piece of crap", guess much?

[Sannom]

I think this comment is true, at least on the management and direction side of things. Remember what Josh Sawyer says about Neverwinter Nights 2? That's about the same thing : too ambitious, trying to cram way too much features into it without polishing the ones they already have, poor management.

 

I have hopes that AP may be the last of those poorly managed projects, at least in the short-term future. For New Vegas, Josh seems to be a really pragmatic and reasonable guy when it comes to these things. Bethesda backing, helping and checking should also help. About the secret project, the only thing Nathaniel Chapman has mentioned about it is the level of polish they brought in... curious to see that! And in general, the Onyx Engine should help with those problems I think...

[Trustin]

I think its a fake, why would a dev post that on this one website? Why not one of the others that gave it a bad review, to top it off its anonymous, and I doubt anyone that used to work there or does work there would do that, anonymous or not, cause if they got found out, they would have a very difficult time finding another job if they wanted to list any past work experience

[Volourn]

"From his POV though, he has to work for a living. Would you really compromise your work just to show that you have 'guts' ?"

 

Then, he should have just shut his mouth (or not post as it was in this case). Simple, huh?

 

I absolutely would 'compromise my work' if I gfelt I had to something to say. if you can't stand by what you beleive then don't say it.

 

 

"You do realize that the vast majority of ANY posted information on webforums is anonymous and full of **** right?"

 

You are talking about random posters like us? the difference is that none of us are claiming to have 'inside knowledge' or first hand experience with the goings on. We're just giving our opinions. Not the same thing. btw, I have no problem givuing my real name. Heck, i've given out my phone number and address before.

 

Still, HUGE difference between random nobody posting crap and someone posting crap who claims to know 'stuff' - espicially a personal attack like this. Own up to it. Be a man (or a woman) and don't be a coward.

 

 

btw, It doesn't even matter if what is posted is true.the person is a piece of crap coward.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Please tone down the language a bit - it takes me ages to work out which swear words are behind all the asterisks.

[Pop]

I'm pretty certain I know who the guy is. He seems like a solid guy, but he definitely wasn't afraid to speak his mind when it was perhaps prudent not to. I ran into him in the comments to an article in the AV Club, where AP came up somehow. He didn't identify himself, but the profile avatar is the same as the guy's old account here. He indicated that his split with Obsidz was acrimonious, but in those comments he seemed pretty supportive of AP, at least to a point. The Joystiq comment seems consistent, really.

[Alpha]

i think was playing liar dice.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I really wish we'd hear more about AP's development from this guy.

[Nightshape]

"From his POV though, he has to work for a living. Would you really compromise your work just to show that you have 'guts' ?"

 

Then, he should have just shut his mouth (or not post as it was in this case). Simple, huh?

 

I absolutely would 'compromise my work' if I gfelt I had to something to say. if you can't stand by what you beleive then don't say it.

 

 

"You do realize that the vast majority of ANY posted information on webforums is anonymous and full of **** right?"

 

You are talking about random posters like us? the difference is that none of us are claiming to have 'inside knowledge' or first hand experience with the goings on. We're just giving our opinions. Not the same thing. btw, I have no problem givuing my real name. Heck, i've given out my phone number and address before.

 

Still, HUGE difference between random nobody posting crap and someone posting crap who claims to know 'stuff' - espicially a personal attack like this. Own up to it. Be a man (or a woman) and don't be a coward.

 

 

btw, It doesn't even matter if what is posted is true.the person is a piece of crap coward.

 

Yes, Ted.

 

Rare... But I agree with you somewhat.

[Pop]

I think its a fake, why would a dev post that on this one website?

Because he reads it? It's a comment on a blog post, not a press release. Ironically enough (perhaps bad for him) the comment's got press release legs - I've gotten a number of email flags of it being written up on news sites as what amounts to an official denial of the game's quality by Obsidian (it's basically "Ferg **** talks Sega over canceled Aliens game" redux). For all we know, this thread might have more to do with that glut of blog posts than the original comment.

 

If he is real and being honest, and he probably is because there's no one who would have real reason to lie about something like this, I don't really have a problem with the comments. The game is officially out now, and people are entitled to opinions about it, even if they worked on it. You can whip up all sorts of amusing, ripe talk of his integrity as a person with an alias, but all things considered I would rather there be honesty out there than not. If being truthful about development trouble and the like required an open "official" admission, we would view game development as a universally awesome experience only occasionally hampered by unforeseeable, unpreventable issues. There's too much at stake to openly suggest otherwise.

 

I mean, for example, has Obsidian ever come out publicly regarding KOTORII development and said "we got screwed for time", even though by all accounts that's exactly what happened? I would reckon that it was private or anonymous discussion of the development that led to the common knowledge of how messed that was. One of the reasons I like Josh as much as I do is because he's been pretty up-front about how wacky NWN2 development was. You can't be a good manager (or a good artist) if you're not critical of your own work.

 

Go back and read into the development history of a lot of the Black Isle games. Game development is tumultuous. We know from MCA that there were two different versions of AP made prior to this one. The comment's account is definitely plausible, even if the view of Parker is definitely sour (which in itself does not mean that Parker wouldn't be responsible for systems turning out the way they did).

Edited May 30, 2010 by Pop

[Tigranes]

I mean, for example, has Obsidian ever come out publicly regarding KOTORII development and said "we got screwed for time"

 

As public as can be reasonably expected? Yeah.

 

I just find the timing quite indicative - you're sort of posting this stuff before the game is even out for a lot of people. To me that's just spiteful - crashing the party when everybody's about to pop the champagne and ranting on about what you didn't like. I'm sure there's a fair chance it's a real dev talking the straight talk, but the timing and method just says to me he's more bitter than anything. *shrug*

 

Not really important in the end. After all, we already know that Obsidian's strong point is story/writing, not polish, and that AP did have a couple of 'do-overs' early on.

[Pop]

See, I haven't run into any major bugs at all in my first playthrough in the game, at least on PC. I think the whole "Obsidz = good writing in a bad game" is a media narrative more than anything else. I don't feel like AP is particularly buggy. I don't feel like the AI is particularly bad relative to any of the other games I've played (nobody bitches about, say, Red Dead Redemption AI).

[Tigranes]

Well... I think they earnt the whole 'buggy studio' thing with KOTOR2, but since then they haven't really been buggy. Buggy and polish are different things. I don't think AP is particularly buggy - I mean we're getting some odd things like mouse smoothing, but Dragon Age (and that was one polished motherbugger) shipped with some big bugs and a whole lot of ridiculous DLC troubles.

 

I think it's fair to say that Obsidian products generally aren't as polished as Bio or Bethesda games, but aren't any more buggy.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Well... I think they earnt the whole 'buggy studio' thing with KOTOR2, but since then they haven't really been buggy. Buggy and polish are different things.

 

Oh, Neverwinter Nights 2 had plenty of bugs. Granted, most of them simply didn't bother me, and I was lucky enough to never encounter the gamebreaking ones, but you're being revisionist here Tigranes.

Neverwinter Nights 2 had sliding enemies, teleporting player characters, a lot of abilities were broken, etc...

The expansions themselves weren't all that buggy, true, but the original game? Oooh it very much was.

I like Obsidian's games, but it's not like their 'buggy' reputation isn't their own fault.