Mass Effect 2 Discussion

[213374U]

To be fair on the other side, the Evolved paths at Level 4 will provide a chunk of difference in how you end up using characters.

Frankly, this looks like an afterthought. In ME2 you get to choose between getting -50% health damage during bullet time or +70% time dilation (50% normal). In ME1 you got to choose between speccing in a power or getting a NEW one. Qualitative jump, there.

 

Fortunately they compensated by making it so I can't change ammunition for ten seconds after I use the bullet time power. Um, yeah. BRILLIANT thinking!

Edited February 4, 2010 by 213374U

[Nepenthe]

To be fair on the other side, the Evolved paths at Level 4 will provide a chunk of difference in how you end up using characters.

Frankly, this looks like an afterthought. In ME2 you get to choose between getting -50% health damage during bullet time or +70% time dilation (50% normal). In ME1 you got to choose between speccing in a power or getting a NEW one. Qualitative jump, there.

 

... What?

[213374U]

... that.

[jaguars4ever]

...owned!

[Nepenthe]

...owned!

 

Hitting the language and cultural barrier here, I guess. The downside of English being my third language.

[jaguars4ever]

...owned!

 

Hitting the language and cultural barrier here, I guess. The downside of English being my third language.

Not to worry - your English is 10 times better than my Finnish.

 

What Number Man means is that a qualitative jump (in type) offers much more than a quantitative jump (in merely degree). In other words, choosing from a Cappuccino vs Cafe Latte is more of a choice than Warm Coffee vs Hot Coffee.

Edited February 4, 2010 by jaguars4ever

[Oner]

...owned!

 

Hitting the language and cultural barrier here, I guess. The downside of English being my third language.

He meant you either spent 12 points in a skill or spent 6 to unlock another and learned that.

[jaguars4ever]

Incidentally, if I import a Shepard = dead save into ME3, I firmly expect to play as Conrad Verner. You hearing me Bio? Humanity needs its heroes!

[Oner]

Incidentally, if I import a Shepard = dead save into ME3, I firmly expect to play as Conrad Verner. You hearing me Bio? Humanity needs its heroes!

IMO it would be either Conrad or Garrus.

[jaguars4ever]

Incidentally, if I import a Shepard = dead save into ME3, I firmly expect to play as Conrad Verner. You hearing me Bio? Humanity needs its heroes!

IMO it would be either Conrad or Garrus.

THIS.

[HoonDing]

Fail. The only option would be playing as Blasto, the first Hanar Spectre.

[jaguars4ever]

Fail. The only option would be playing as Blasto, the first Hanar Spectre.

ENKINDLE THIS!

[Raithe]

Ashley, Kaidan, or Liarra... there's a reason they were kept safe and alive in ME2.. you'll get to play as the jilted lover

[Oner]

Fail. The only option would be playing as Blasto, the first Hanar Spectre.

[Majek]

I want to play as Joker, but with a weapon this time.

[Nepenthe]

...owned!

 

Hitting the language and cultural barrier here, I guess. The downside of English being my third language.

He meant you either spent 12 points in a skill or spent 6 to unlock another and learned that.

 

I'm totally failing to see the relevance or the difference. You spend two points to unlock a new skill or four to max it.

 

Ok, maybe not totally, but I'm still not accepting the more boxes with more granular upgrades equals deeper character development argument.

 

The elite commando not hitting an outhouse while standing inside it argument has been done to death since Deus Ex, and would make even less sense when you've progressed from elite commando (N7) to first human spectre and saviour of the galaxy.

 

Btw. I am partially playing the devil's advocate here, but it stems more from not having a preference between the two systems than from thinking that the new one is better. I do like the choice evolve gives me, but I'm totally indifferent to the guns. Ok, maybe not, since the new system prevents me from "maxing" the weapon skills to a ludicrous degree and removes Marksman, among other things.

[213374U]

I'm totally failing to see the relevance or the difference. You spend two points to unlock a new skill or four to max it.

 

Ok, maybe not totally, but I'm still not accepting the more boxes with more granular upgrades equals deeper character development argument.

Then you are simply not thinking hard enough. In ME1, a Sentinel has:

• Pistol talent branch
  
• Throw -> 3 different major levels, giving you the ability to knock around even Armatures when maxed
  
• Barrier
  
• Decryption -> again, 3 different levels allowing you to open containers of various difficulties
  
• First Aid
  

And can unlock:

• Lift - same as with Throw, max lift allows you to lift Armatures and Primes, making it worth it to max out
  
• Stasis
  
• Electronics - same as with Decryption
  
• Medicine - for Neural Shock
  

You can combine different proficiencies in those in any number of ways, and get a "prestige class" for added variety.

 

Whereas in ME2, a Sentinel gets:

• Throw
  
• Warp
  
• Tech Armor
  
• Overload
  
• Cryo Blast
  

Without dramatic differences between levels, except for the lame "evolutions". Refer to jags' coffee analogy, about those. ME1 could have done without the granular progression without making much of a difference, but that's not the point. There are less possible combinations in ME2, if you can count.

 

But hey, it's always fun to argue against mathematical facts, right?

Edited February 4, 2010 by 213374U

[Deraldin]

Then you are simply not thinking hard enough. In ME1, a Sentinel has:

• Pistol talent branch
  
• Throw -> 3 different major levels, giving you the ability to knock around even Armatures when maxed
  
• Barrier
  
• Decryption -> again, 3 different levels allowing you to open containers of various difficulties
  
• First Aid
  

And can unlock:

• Lift - same as with Throw, max lift allows you to lift Armatures and Primes, making it worth it to max out
  
• Stasis
  
• Electronics - same as with Decryption
  
• Medicine - for Neural Shock
  

You can combine different proficiencies in those in any number of ways, and get a "prestige class" for added variety.

 

Whereas in ME2, a Sentinel gets:

• Throw
  
• Warp
  
• Tech Armor
  
• Overload
  
• Cryo Blast
  

Is there a reason you left out Spectre Training, the Conversation skills and the passive Class specialization skill (for both games)? Also, Sentinels don't get pistol training. They get some bonuses from their class skill, but that's it.

 

Looking at my last run, I've got Throw, Lift, Barrier, Decryption, Electronics, Bastion all at Master level with Charm, Shotguns each one point away and Stasis at Advanced level and Spectre Training at Basic. I've got enough points to max out, or nearly so 9 of the 13 skills. If I continued to level 60 I could bring Charm, Shotguns and Stasis all up to Master level. I don't have any other characters that high right now to check with, but you get enough points by the end of the game that most characters will end up the same way, even if they took different paths to get there. For the record, my character is a level 51 Sentinel just about to beat up Saren. No new game+

 

One system has fewer skills, but that doesn't really translate into fewer choices if you have enough points to max out everything useful in both systems anyway.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Deraldin

[Nepenthe]

But hey, it's always fun to argue against mathematical facts, right?

 

Mathematics can't tell me which one is better, it can just tell me which one is "MOAR". ME1 throw has 3 different levels with a lot of filler, ME2 throw has 4 different levels, with the 4th level branching into two different options. The boosts you get at every level in ME2 are like the ones ME1 has as "new" versions of the power - not the minor percentage boosts to partial effects in between.

 

Again, just because there's more little boxes for you to tick (indeed, a mathematical fact), does not necessarily mean = better. Just like level 60 isn't automatically more than level 30.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Enoch]

I know it's not a particularly forceful argument for comparing ME1 and ME2, but I suspect that ME2 has fewer options because characters aren't going to be wiped going into ME3, which will almost certainly come with a few new abilities per class, plus prestige class options.

[Nepenthe]

I know it's not a particularly forceful argument for comparing ME1 and ME2, but I suspect that ME2 has fewer options because characters aren't going to be wiped going into ME3, which will almost certainly come with a few new abilities per class, plus prestige class options.

 

I got the same vibe.

[Raithe]

I know it's not a particularly forceful argument for comparing ME1 and ME2, but I suspect that ME2 has fewer options because characters aren't going to be wiped going into ME3, which will almost certainly come with a few new abilities per class, plus prestige class options.

 

I got the same vibe.

 

I got the vague feeling I saw something about forthcoming dlc expansion for ME2 opening up higher levels as well.. but that might just have been some fever dream

[Volourn]

Numbers is 100% right. ME2 is dumbed down from ME1. And, he explained why perfectly. AllSheaprds of the same class are basically the same. Same with he various npcs. This isn't actually true in ME1. You can make your Shepard different than others. THAT'S A GOOSD THING A SIT ADDS CHOICE.

 

On top of this, in ME2, the biotic powers are pretty much garbage. They were hella fun in ME1. In ME2, you ar ebetetr off shooting (and hiding) non stop until your enemy dies.

[mr insomniac]

Shooting non-stop until the enemy dies is how I liked to play ME. IIRC the only time I used any biotic powers at all was during the tutorial on Eden Prime, when I had to. In fact, I even made squad powers defense only so Wrex would stop messing with my sniper kills, heh. That said, I'm finding biotics and tech powers more useful (when the squad uses them) in ME2. Mostly I forget they're even available.

[RPGmasterBoo]

That about the biotics is not really correct. I use them a lot and some of them are useful because they go through cover. I never used biotics in ME, there was no need.

 

Mass Effect 2's combat is dumber. But unlike ME, it works - and is nowhere near as broken.

 

There is too little variation in enemies, weapons, powers and tactical options to praise the combat of either Mass Effect.Neither are a great example of video game combat, they are merely functional. On a basic, arcade level.

 

I'm finding the combat much easier as I progress through the game. Upgrading absolutely everything has given me a definite edge. However, being able to pulverize anything is apt to get boring soon. I've done all the loyalty missions, side missions and minor quests. Explored everything. A hairs breath away from level 24. I'm about to assault

the geth/heretic stronghold

and move on with the main quest. The great first impression has substantially worn off but overall its still more enjoyable than ME1.

Edited February 4, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo