Mass Effect 2

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'll concede its educated guesswork, not a prophecy.

 

If they have a bigger budget and better grip on their engine, more power to them.

[Pidesco]

ME2 quite obviously has a bigger budget than ME1 did. Also writing and graphics design aren't exactly equal, adding more writers doesn't make the writing any better at a certain point, while having a thousand artists do every every texture and animation will make the overall game look better than it would with less artists.

 

While it is possible that what you're saying is true, it is wholly illogical to assume that having better graphics would make any other part of the game worse and not in fact, better. Especially considering that they most likely have a higher budget for ME2.

 

 

While I can imagine, I don't know how Mass Effect 2 will turn out and how the bigger budget will affect it, that was a comment on the first game.

 

As for the writing and graphics distinction, you'll notice in my previous post that I didn't say that better writing required more writers, rather what I was referencing was writers having to write around the cost of voice acting. So in ME1, for example we got loads of encyclopedic, descriptive monologues, instead of full, reactive dialogues. Or, apart from the few pivotal, choice conversations, most main character lines were simple, direct basic questions which set up the aforementioned monologues.

 

Seriously, half the NPCs in ME were like those VI guides in Citadel Station.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I never saw the necessity to go beyond voice overs for key text only (a la BG2/Torment). It made sure you could pay for good voice talent in a text heavy game, and kept things fresh. Having everything voiced is likely to water down the experience, as quantity usually buries quality.

Edited January 16, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Killian Kalthorne]

Too bad they can't merge the games. Dragon Effect!

[Purkake]

I never saw the necessity to go beyond voice overs for key text only (a la BG2/Torment). It made sure you could pay for good voice talent in a text heavy game, and kept things fresh. Having everything voiced is likely to water down the experience, as quantity usually buries quality.

I always found that really weird, like some of the audio was bugged or the files missing.

 

All or nothing for me, thanks.

[Oner]

Or, apart from the few pivotal, choice conversations, most main character lines were simple, direct basic questions which set up the aforementioned monologues.

DA was the same unfortunately.

PC: Hel-

NPC: Ah yes welcome to my humble establishment built 200 years ago by my great-great-grandfather who...

................................................................................

............

...and this is how I got this here beer-belly.

PC: Very int-

NPC: Have I ever told you about the sword recipe handed down in my family ever since...

................................................................................

............

...and then dropped it from the bridge.

[Volourn]

"It's called money and allocation of resources and making game design follow after the visuals and the audio instead of the opposite. The writers in Mass Effect had to adapt dialogue writing to the fact that full voice acting costs a lot of money, for example. "

 

Nope. Doesn't work that way. BIO has hudnreds of employees and they range from graphics artists to writers and everything else. Again, how does the graphic artists doing a great job somehow make the writers do a poor job?

 

It does not make sense.

 

 

"Mass Effect, more graphics > less content

 

Dragon Age, sh!t graphic > much more content

 

(content = quests, areas)"

 

Opinion.

 

DA's graphics are not '****'. That's silly talk. And, ME's writing is just as good if not better than DA's. And, the main story certainly is.

 

DA has more content this is true, but it can be argued that lots of that is filled up weith random fights that don't add to the story. Outside of the random planets, ME doesn't have this problem.

 

DA took me 70 hours. ME took me 40. But, ME didn't make me spend hours in the inventory (thank god since ME's inventory was KOTOR levels bad), or fighting encounters that didn't add to the plot. This is why i laugh when people claim JE is too short - JE doesn't waste time with inventory, useless combat (JE is easily BIO's best when it comes to limiting non story oriented combat which is impressive considering it's a kung fu oriented game), or as much traveling (though the world map was a dissapoitinge), or owrthless inventory matrix.

 

On top of this, content wise, Citedal for ME is way better than any civilized area in DA with the possible exception of Orzimmar.

 

 

Again, to make it clear, it makes absolute no sense and is not based on fact, to claim that graphic designers doing a great job meanms writers will do crappy. It's illogical.

 

It might mean a little less contentbut not worse content.

 

 

 

"Or, apart from the few pivotal, choice conversations, most main character lines were simple, direct basic questions which set up the aforementioned monologues."

 

True for every RPG ever created. *shrug*

Edited January 16, 2010 by Volourn

[Oner]

"It's called money and allocation of resources and making game design follow after the visuals and the audio instead of the opposite. The writers in Mass Effect had to adapt dialogue writing to the fact that full voice acting costs a lot of money, for example. "

 

Nope. Doesn't work that way. BIO has hudnreds of employees and they range from graphics artists to writers and everything else. Again, how does the graphic artists doing a great job somehow make the writers do a poor job?

Hundreds of employees cost money. Voice actors cost money. Long lines for VAs cost more money. Lines get rewritten after VO is recorded. Actors cost more money.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Clearly the better the presentation, the more expensive it is to do content, else why would modern games cost so much? Having said that, a lot of problems with ME had to do with the buggy engine and unfamiliarity with the engine, plus a design process unsuitable for modern games. Supposedly all those issue have been fixed, so ME2 may very well be better quality than 1. However, based on ME and DAO, I have to think the design of the game will still be crappy, as Bioware has either lost the recipe, or thinks it's good enough for the target audience.

[Enoch]

The problem with doing less than full VO (besides suspension of disbelief) is that it becomes a way of communicating meta-game information to the player. ("I know this character is important because he has a voice!") You end up with important/interesting characters voiced and unimportant/uninteresting characters silent. Which begs the question: Why are all those uninteresting/unimportant characters in the game to begin with?

 

The ideal solution to me isn't to cut VO for characters. It's to go at your script with an axe and cut any characters who aren't interesting or fun for the player to talk to. (Or reduce them to non-verbal interface. For example, there's no reason why shopkeepers need to put timewasting chitchat between the player and what (s)he wants to do-- I'm looking at you, Mr. Normandy SupplyGuy!) I view the uninteresting dialogue as akin to uninteresting grindy combat-- either make it fun or leave it out.

 

 

(Sidenote: I originally bristled at DA:O's "Sack O' Quests" tasks as a lame shortcut. But I later realized that just reading minor missions from a list saved me lots of chatting with boring NPCs who have little more than "go fetch my slippers" to say. Ultimately, dialogue with interesting quest-giving NPCs would be the best outcome. But, failing that, a simple list of quests is a better result than the inclusion of lots of boring conversations.)

Edited January 16, 2010 by Enoch

[Bos_hybrid]

[Oner]

Nice underwear.

[Volourn]

"However, based on ME and DAO, I have to think the design of the game will still be crappy, as Bioware has either lost the recipe, "

 

Crappy or not, it sure beats the BG1 recipe. You can't go much lower than retarded ranger with a stupid hamster for a master.

[Niten_Ryu]

 

Looking good. Hard to belive that Mass Effect and Dragon Age were made by same company. Hmmm.. Derek Watts as Art Director in Mass Effect and Dean Andersen in Dragon Age. Both have done long careers in company. Couldn't find Dean Andersens art but Derek Watts seem to have nice skills.

[jaguars4ever]

Nice underwear.

 

B00bies? Cat fight? Cat fight with juggling b00bies?

 

[Kaftan Barlast]

There is only one word befitting my feelings regarding Mass Effect 2: AWESOME.

 

 

 

 

..in the true sense of the word, not like how having cake for breakfast is awesome.

[Purkake]

Day 1!

[Maria Caliban]

NWN 2 had both better graphics and a better story than NWN. I expect that will be the case with ME 2. And while the graphics look better, they've cut down in other areas. No driving your Mako around empty planets anymore and companions on have two outfits, for example.

 

The systems themselves have been improved. Companions know to equip themselves with a best version of whatever weapon you've given to them, so there's no shuffling through all ten inventories to make sure everyone is up to snuff. I realize some people will consider getting rid of most of the buying and selling of equipment as dumbing down, but I was one of the people who thought it odd that my Alliance Marine/SPECTRE operative was buying weapons in the first place.

 

 

I like the bit at the beginning. It should be interesting to see Miranda, the authority loving scientist, vs Subject Zero, the authority hating science experiment.

 

Also

. I am... deeply unimpressed. Edited January 16, 2010 by Maria Caliban

[Guest Slinky]

Also

. I am... deeply unimpressed.

Grunt: Hello, my name is Grunt and I like to fight.

PC: Well whoop-the-f***ing-dee-doo.

Grunt: Yes, I knew-What?? The phenomenally ingenious persona of mine didn't rock your world?

PC: No?

Grunt: Oh, I see.. well.. I guess you can forget I exist then.

PC: Oh I will, don't worry about that.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Also

. I am... deeply unimpressed.

 

This is just... retarded. I mean Bethesda level of retardation. Makes Wrex looks like Aristotle.

 

Why do bioware's attempts to do "badass", "dark", "gritty" end up so juvenile?

Edited January 16, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Morgoth]

"This is a video game? That's crazy!".

 

Geez, this gets dumber and dumber....

[Purkake]

Also

. I am... deeply unimpressed.

 

This is just... retarded. I mean Bethesda level of retardation. Makes Wrex looks like Aristotle.

 

Why do bioware's attempts to do "badass", "dark", "gritty" end up so juvenile?

The Bethesadization has begun.

 

 

"This is a video game? That's crazy!".

 

Geez, this gets dumber and dumber....

At least the voice cast is pretty cool. Not everyone can get Seth Green for their game.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Purkake

[Guest Slinky]

Here's some more honey to swim in:

 

Shepard trailer

[Morgoth]

At least the voice cast is pretty cool. Not everyone can get Seth Green for their game.

I don't like that recent movement of Bioware to use actors/celebrities for their ingame characters. It cheapens the experience, and feels kinda forced from EA.

[Purkake]

Here's some more honey to swim in:

 

Shepard trailer

I like how the defining feature of "the assassin", "the savage" and "the loyalist" is that they all shoot guns.

 

At least the voice cast is pretty cool. Not everyone can get Seth Green for their game.

I don't like that recent movement of Bioware to use actors/celebrities for their ingame characters. It cheapens the experience, and feels kinda forced from EA.

Sure, real voice actors would be much better, but if you have to go the actors route, at least they got good and affordable ones instead of just Liam Neeson.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Purkake