Dragon Age discussion

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm at the forest now... The whole werewolves, elves and ents thing seems so... deja vu. The visual design as well is less than inspired. Perhaps there will be a twist to the werewolf quest that might redeem the whole ordeal.

[entrerix]

I'm at the forest now... The whole werewolves, elves and ents thing seems so... deja vu. The visual design as well is less than inspired. Perhaps there will be a twist to the werewolf quest that might redeem the whole ordeal.

 

i like the werewolf quest but the dungeon and forest that you have to slog through is DULL

 

now that the dragon age honeymoon is over, im definitely in agreement that dragon age is no baldurs gate, for the reasons tigranes outlined, there just isnt enough to do outside the main storyline.

 

hell, in baldurs gate 2 there is so much to do in that game i always lose track of where the main storyline even is!

 

that said, dragon age is still a great game, i still think its a bit better than the witcher.

[Starwars]

I find Dragon Age to be Biowares best offering as of yet. I do not find most of Baldurs Gate combat more fun to slog through generally speaking. Dragon Age's quests are far more engaging and have more interesting choices to them. While the world is generic on the surface, the politics and some of the lore underneath is far more interesting than D&D in BG.

I think there's quite a lot of uninspiring combat in both the BGs and DA. The heavy narrative also makes DA a bit heavier to replay. But as a whole package, I find DA to be quite a lot better, especially in the roleplaying department.

[Meshugger]

DA showed me that Bioware has the potential to make DA2 to be this centurys BG2.

[Wrath of Dagon]

[now that the dragon age honeymoon is over, im definitely in agreement that dragon age is no baldurs gate, for the reasons tigranes outlined, there just isnt enough to do outside the main storyline.

Or in the main storyline.

[Oner]

that might redeem the whole ordeal.

Hawt "dryad" b00bz?

[Tigranes]

DA showed me that Bioware has the potential to make DA2 to be this centurys BG2.

 

I think this is the big one. DA2 is surely going to use the same engine, just with souped up graphics. They are clearly using ME to get the short focused visceral cinematic experience down, so DA2 should have clearance to be a bigger, more sprawling RPG adventure. More classes and character options in general, more imaginative enemies and tactical set pieces (remember, BG enemies were just walking fleshbags compared to BG2's mage setpieces), and nwo the lore is in people's minds, to do more crazy things with it. I agree with starwars that the lore had good potential to be used for good quests and good quests.

[Volourn]

I agree that BG2 has the better story; but overall DA is the better role-playing and has better combat. The fact the fighters are more than point and click and have actual talents to use makes it easily so. The argument that mages are 'overpowered' in DA is hogwash since the same argument could be used for D&D mages (or heck any game with mages).

 

 

"They are clearly using ME to get the short focused visceral cinematic experience down, so DA2 should have clearance to be a bigger, more sprawling RPG adventure."

 

Eh. ME2 wasn't that short. ME2 took me 48 hours while DA took me 58 hours or so. Both of them could have had their durations dropped by 10 hours due to some 'uneccessary' parts or just me having fun dinking around in the game worlds. *shrug*

 

I prefer DA's combat to ME2 9since DA isn't dumbed down) but story, and writing wise I'd give it to ME2. Heck, C&C wise, ME2 might even have the win despite being a weaker rpg character system wise since a lot of decisions can effect the outcome.

[RPGmasterBoo]

QUOTE

DA showed me that Bioware has the potential to make DA2 to be this centurys BG2.

 

 

I think this is the big one. DA2 is surely going to use the same engine, just with souped up graphics. They are clearly using ME to get the short focused visceral cinematic experience down, so DA2 should have clearance to be a bigger, more sprawling RPG adventure. More classes and character options in general, more imaginative enemies and tactical set pieces (remember, BG enemies were just walking fleshbags compared to BG2's mage setpieces), and nwo the lore is in people's minds, to do more crazy things with it. I agree with starwars that the lore had good potential to be used for good quests and good quests.

 

 

I disagree. I'll elaborate on this later though, when I chew through more of the story - to make sure I'm not wrong.

 

I finished the forest.

 

So far there are some things I don't like:

 

-Too much grind in areas dedicated to the main quest line. Both the elven and mage recruitment missions felt overlong with too many mobs to go through.

-Too many random encounters against mobs, practically one per trip.

-Leliana. The character is too schizophrenic.

First she's an elite bard/assassin, then a nun/religious fanatic coupled with what appears to be Imoen's innocent demanour and a "neutral good" personality (she approves all my good actions). It simply doesn't work, the differences are too great to be beliveable.

 

-Too many generic quests. Especially the boards, but much of the other stuff as well.

-The PC's dialog options. Too short and to the point, reminds me of Shepard.

-Design of the forest.

 

What I like:

 

-The resolution of the Witherfang quest.

-Most of the game's joinable NPC's. They're mostly a bit on the dull and generic side but they're not emo, and they've got interesting storylines. Wynne in particular. I've yet to get the dwarf.

-The way you learn the Arcane Warrior or whatever that mage specialization is called.

-Design of the ruins in the forest.

 

The argument that mages are 'overpowered' in DA is hogwash since the same argument could be used for D&D mages (or heck any game with mages).

 

No. When my mage PC is doing all the slaughtering and all the rest are only used to keep the enemies busy something is not right. Spamming mana potions and dancing away allows my PC to dish out obscene amounts of damage, to the point where most of the other characters seem redundant. In DnD this power has limits, in the amount of spells you can dish out in an encounter. In DA you just have to keep potions handy and you can slaughter just about anything. And every spell is available, thus you don't have the possibility of being unprepared.

No other available class can even touch a mage, if he's played with at least a little effort and stocked up on potions.

 

-Also when you've gained sufficent levels, you always have a spell that has "cooled", and with enough potions you could more or less deliver an unending stream of spells.

Edited February 11, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Orogun01]

-Leliana. The character is too schizophrenic.

First she's an elite bard/assassin, then a nun/religious fanatic coupled with what appears to be Imoen's innocent demanour and a "neutral good" personality (she approves all my good actions). It simply doesn't work, the differences are too great to be beliveable.

True

She ranges from being a complete goody two shoes, when you do something bad to being a complete ho on the duelist specialization achievement

 

[Volourn]

"No. When my mage PC is doing all the slaughtering and all the rest are only used to keep the enemies busy something is not right. Spamming mana potions and dancing away allows my PC to dish out obscene amounts of damage, to the point where most of the other characters seem redundant. In DnD this power has limits, in the amount of spells you can dish out in an encounter. In DA you just have to keep potions handy and you can slaughter just about anything. And every spell is available, thus you don't have the possibility of being unprepared.

No other available class can even touch a mage, if he's played with at least a little effort and stocked up on potions.

"

 

Sounds like BG2.

[Aram]

-Leliana. The character is too schizophrenic.

First she's an elite bard/assassin, then a nun/religious fanatic coupled with what appears to be Imoen's innocent demanour and a "neutral good" personality (she approves all my good actions). It simply doesn't work, the differences are too great to be beliveable.

True

She ranges from being a complete goody two shoes, when you do something bad to being a complete ho on the duelist specialization achievement

 

I got the distinct impression that she had some sort of brain damage.

[RPGmasterBoo]

"No. When my mage PC is doing all the slaughtering and all the rest are only used to keep the enemies busy something is not right. Spamming mana potions and dancing away allows my PC to dish out obscene amounts of damage, to the point where most of the other characters seem redundant. In DnD this power has limits, in the amount of spells you can dish out in an encounter. In DA you just have to keep potions handy and you can slaughter just about anything. And every spell is available, thus you don't have the possibility of being unprepared.

No other available class can even touch a mage, if he's played with at least a little effort and stocked up on potions.

"

 

Sounds like BG2.

 

You're ignoring the obvious unavailability of all spells at all times, and the limit of spells per day.

 

None are so deaf as those who refuse to hear.

Edited February 11, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[RPGmasterBoo]

that might redeem the whole ordeal.

Hawt "dryad" b00bz?

 

Her hair was in the way. They really did try too hard to do a Witcher without doing the Witcher.

[Volourn]

"You're ignoring the obvious unavailability of all spells at all times, and the limit of spells per day.

 

None are so deaf as those who refuse to hear. "

 

Doesn't matter. A smartly played mage is easily the most powerful class in BG2 (or any D&D game) by far. No contest. Potentially clerics for the same reason - spells. Magic, by its very nature, makes one 'overpowered'.

 

Think of it this way - mages in D&D can't wear armour. Big deal. They can cast spells that protect you as well if not flat out better than any armour.

 

Magic, by its very nature, *should* be 'overpowered' or why bother with it?

 

I loath game systsms that go out of their way to completely nerf magic.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Mage power in BG2 is great but limited. In Dragon Age its great and unlimited. A Mage can err in BG2 by having wrong spells prepared. A Mage cannot err in DA in that regard.

 

There is a difference. Its not game breaking, but there is a lack of balance and it affects overall enjoyment of combat, once you realize that everyone but you is expendable.

[Volourn]

"Mage power in BG2 is great but limited. In Dragon Age its great and unlimited. A Mage can err in BG2 by having wrong spells prepared. A Mage cannot err in DA in that regard. "

 

Nonsense. BG2 mages are overpwoered in the same way. There is not one situation an intelligently made BG2 mage can't handled same as a DA one.

[Sand]

I have done more damage to a single target with my warrior than I ever did with my mage. Of course my mages tend to do a lot of damage to a lot of foes at once, but still.

[Volourn]

"Of course my mages tend to do a lot of damage to a lot of foes at once, but still."

 

Yup, sounds like D&D. Except, in D&D, mages can do a lot of heck more damage to single targets than warriors do.

[Tigranes]

I wonder whether you actually have 'too many encounters' in DA, i.e. how the actual numbers, and the pace in which you get them, compare with older RPGs like BG2, IWD series, etc. I've just been playing Arcanum and the random encounter frequency in the Glimmering Forest is insane. The great thing about DA world map is that you are locked onto one encounter per trip, same as BG2 I think - in Arcanum or Fallout you could get 20 encounters in one long trek.

 

And compared to the waves of enemies you get in both IWDs, I think DA wouldn't come out on top in terms of numbers of 'grinds', actually. It's just the loading times, and maybe the ways in which the battles/interface are designed that just makes it feel more grindy (e.g. waiting for corpses to become lootable in DA vs. instant in IE) Apart from the Deep Roads I don't think it's that bad at all, esp since combat is meant to be a big draw for the game.

 

Anyway, once you learn to minmax you can do super awesome damage with warriors, rogues and mages. For those who want their mages to be less awesome I recommend looking up some form of lyrium addiction mod, something that was meant to be in the original game. It's an in-lore solution that works quite well, I think on paper.

[Gromnir]

compare d&d to da is a ridiculous way to argue against over-power of da mages. one of the most frequent complaints regarding d&d (pre 4e) is that mages is way too powerful at higher levels. the fact that da has a similar problem is not some kinda wacky validation of bioware's efforts, but rather a criticism that they could not fix one of d&d's flaws... inspite of fact that the biowarians started with their own rules system from scratch.

 

da magic is flawed similar to d&d in that some spells is disproportionate powerful, and high level mages have access to far too many spells with insane array o' utility... can buff and immobilize and damage and heal and... whatever.

 

"Apart from the Deep Roads..."

 

agreed. deep roads had far too much undifferentiated combat... really felt the grind. otherwise we were not bothered by degree and frequency o' combats.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

The point is that 'mages being overpowered wawawa' is one of the ludicrous arguments I've ever heard about fantasy games. Damn, it's magic, it better be 'overpowered'.

[Gromnir]

The point is that 'mages being overpowered wawawa' is one of the ludicrous arguments I've ever heard about fantasy games. Damn, it's magic, it better be 'overpowered'.

 

that is ridiculous. da is a Game. choose boot over car or battleship not give you an advantage in monopoly. choose mage should not give disproportionate advantage in da neither.

 

'course, as da is a rp game that allows players to make choices in character development and generation, it is unlikely that the developers would be able to achieve complete balance... is predictable and understandable that as player choices and options increase, the likelihood of achieving balance decreases. even so, there is no excuse for how poorly balanced mages is compared to other da classes... is just plain silly.

 

"it's magic" is Not any kinda gameplay argument. make argument that magic should be powerful? maybe. no doubt some folks will argue in favor of low magic settings and systems, but we can see that some folks might prefer more traditional high power magic stuff. but Overpower? is no valid reason to argue in favor of overpower. inherent in definition of overpower is Excess.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

No.

[Krookie]

No.

 

another outstanding argument from everyone's best friend...