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Thou know'st, great son, The end of war's uncertain, but this certain, That, if thou conquer Ferelden, the benefit Which thou shalt thereby reap is such a name Whose repetition will be dogged with curses, Whose chronicle thus writ: 'The man was noble, But with his last attempt he wiped it out, Destroyed his country; and his name remains To th' ensuing age abhorred,' Speak to me son. Thou hast affected the fine strains of honor, To imitate the graces of the gods; To tear with thunder the wide cheeks o' th' air, And yet to change thy sulphur with a bolt That should rive an oak.

 

Orlesian bard William Jaquespierre on the subject of Loghain Mac Tir


“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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A dumb question about the respec mod (which doesn't seem to have a read-me). I now have a bird called "Raven" in the towns, which allows me to "know a bit more about... warriors, rogues or mages"... and allowed me, surprisingly, to unlock several previously unlocked specialties. Okay, sweet, but that wasn't what I wanted the mod for. Now after "talking" to Raven several times, I find a single "potion of respecialization" in my backpack. I'm assuming that if a character drinks it, I will be allowed to respec the character... once.

 

Is this how the respec mods y'all are using works? Because I'm really pretty underwhelmed...

 

Something to do with the way the respec potion works, IIRC, is that you can only carry one in your inventory at a time. It's possible the original mod-maker created it to behave that way, I'm not sure. After you use it, you simply have to talk to a raven again to get another one.


I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God.

So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me?

Nothing personal. It's just revenge.

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as for newc's belief that allistar is in-character... well, vol agrees with him, so that right there should give him pause.

it keeps me awake at night.

 

and not in a good way.

 

how's bout a short answer question? "I will stand idly by and allow the darkspawn horde to kill, torture or transform every man, woman and child in Fereldan (and possibly all of Thedas) because _______________________________________________________________

 

so, what is an appropriate answer for allistar, one that seems plausible given the manner in which al were developed up until the landsmeet?

and, several posts in, i think we're still missing the distinction between (i) a character who acting nuts and (ii) the reason for that character going nuts.

 

yes, Alistair's tantrum is nuts. it's insane that, after everything he would quit the fight and go home because you

spare Loghain

(although it's easy enough to imagine him wading into the darkspawn by himself, in a last futile gesture to honor Duncan and the Wardens).

 

otoh, it's entirely plausible that your

decision to spare Loghain

is the trigger for Alistair's insane decision.

 

at least, for me it is. you're welcome to go another sixteen rounds arguing i'm wrong but i doubt i can assist the court further at this stage.

 

it's funny that there are other, slightly-less-visible instances of railroading in DA that i do find pretty egregious that we aren't discussing. i also wouldn't disagree with the possibility of dissuading alistair from his rash decision on a really high persuade check. but of all the instances of the events you can't control in DA, i actually think alistair's is plausible even while i find it (in-game) every bit as maddening as others do.

Edited by newc0253

dumber than a bag of hammers

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I only skimmed, but I can say that I disagree with Enoch. Morrigan isn't a petulant child. She's a double barreled bitch. You know, I don't mind Morrigan as long as she confines herself to talking to me in camp or talking to the dog in party. If she opens her mouth otherwise, I despise her. In the modern sense. The elves I despise in the classical sense. If Bioware truly hates the elves as much as it seems, they should just off their pointy eared asses in the story line and be done with it. I've never seen a sadder more pathetic group of people in my life. I simply cannot fathom why Bioware bothered having them in the story. They're not mystical. They're not romantic. They're not even really nomadic. They're a stationary bunch of whining pathetic losers. They don't even serve as the under class proxy Bioware so clearly luuurves in their games. What a complete waste.

 

Back to Morrigan. I've been avoiding the arguments about her, but all's I can say is that if she decides to test me, I'm putting her on her back faster than a two bit whore in a twelve dollar whore house. At this point, she doesn't do anything that Wynne and the PC can't do anyhow.

 

In other news, the PC slept with Alistair. It's simple. She might love the guy. Me? I'm merely mercenary. It appears the PC did a little favor for him, so he now has more health and can do a greater service for her. ...And I don't mean in bed. I hear a lot about other tanks, but Alistair is the best one I have. His Templar abilities don't hurt either. Judging from the descriptions, I think I'd like to make him a Champion also. I used to hate the romances, but since they actually give me something tangible in-game (get your minds out of the gutter), I'm perfectly happy to exploit them. It was a real race to see whether the PC would end up in bed with Alistair or Leliana. Made no difference to me, but I do prefer to give Alistair the extra buff. I don't really need Leliana in the party, but Alistair is my only solid tank. For some reason, the dog doesn't seem to hold aggro as well, although I do like the howl and charge quite a bit. Plus, I don't see the dog as a viable romance. *shrug*

 

So far, I've done everything I could find in Redcliffe, Denerim, the Tower, and the Brecilian Forest. I've

saved the Arl, and he told me to finish up with my allies.

So now I'm in the Dwarven area poking around. I don't like going into new areas, but I do like being in them after a while. I think it's that I'm impatient about finding all the quest givers and whatnot. I actually like that a lot of folks either give you floating overhead text or are simply not interactable.

 

Well, enough rambling for now, but I think it's a good sign that I'm up at 2:30pm playing the game.

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yes, Alistair's tantrum is nuts.

 

I think it starts from the Gray Warden organization.

 

While it's perfectly ok to blame Alistair how he handled the situation, the Gray Wardens as an organization are the real failure. Gray Wardens seem to keep everything secret, even when it's directly against their own interests. This is bit of a cliche as Jedis (or other similar fantasy cliques) or all goverment agencies in TV / movies / books do the same.

 

Alistair (nor your character) didn't know that Gray Warden is needed to kill the archdemon. Loghain didn't know that either. Riordan, the eldest of current Gray Wardens in Feralden knew it, but kept his trap shut. Even under torture and prisonment. Loghains whole campaign against Gray Wardens were based on false intel but neither Duncan or Riordan bothered to tell anyone. If that ain't stupid, I don't know what is.

 

Two newbie Gray Wardens, your character and Alistair know basically nothing but still have to stop the blight. Alistair the underarchiver throw tantrum at the Landsmeet, saying that he'll rather marry archdemon then the queen because Loghain is not executed. When you side with queen, she executes Alistair. And Riordan still keeps his mouth shut, even when there's a chance that Loghain don't survive the joining and again there'd be only 2 Gray wardens against the archdemon. Nice one. Maybe Riordan tries to beat my character on the Chaotic Stupid scale.

 

 

Writers have freedom to do whatever they like but they should be careful with Landsmeet type of events. If too many unlikely events happen at the same time, it gets harder and harder to justify it as plausable and then it just becomes bad writing or plot development.


Let's play Alpha Protocol

My misadventures on youtube.

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Alistair complains A LOT about Logain throughout the entire game. He makes it very clear that he wants Loghain to pay. And, oh, him doing what he does doesn't mean he's turning his back on Feralden or not gonna to fight the blight. he turns his back on YOU because he feels you betrayed his trust. He does not turn his back on his mission. Since when does one have to travel with the PC to have the goal to stop the bLight. Talk about selfish, and arrogance on part of the PC to think that way.

 

Perhaps, Alistair will form his own party to do the job - a party he can trust and who respects him enough not to spit in his face, his ideals, and his mentor. I seriously doubt he simply went into the wilds to sing koombya. sleeping.gif

The epilogue I got for the guy said he grabbed a ship out of Denerim and sailed somewhere up north before the darkspawn siege. (No doubt paid for by the 50g worth of equipment of mine he walked out with.)

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When you side with queen, she executes Alistair.

o_o

 

Aristes: To be fair, I made an elven fighter with the first pre-set face and he (and his colleagues) are the most normal looking (read: not gay parade expy) elven fighters I've yet seen.


"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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Dragon Age was great fun. I just completed three full runs. :ermm:

 

All this discussion about Alistair is fascinating - and it's the first I've heard of it because

I've always had Alistair duel Loghain at the landsmeet, so there was never an option even to discuss sparing him. That always seems so appropriate, I never thought to fight him myself

.

 

And of course, as always with a Bioware game, I've really been enjoying Aimo's artwork. :teehee:


"An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)

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All this discussion about Alistair is fascinating - and it's the first I've heard of it because

I've always had Alistair duel Loghain at the landsmeet, so there was never an option even to discuss sparing him. That always seems so appropriate, I never thought to fight him myself

.

I considered letting

Al fight, simply for dramatic purposes. But two high-level sword & shield warriors going up against each other in that ruleset, with no other combatants to provide the second half of the "tank 'n spank," and the darkspawn would've burned Denerim to the ground before they finished up. Plus the whole idea of a duel didn't seem particularly fair to me after the Landsmeet voted against him, so I decided not to play fair myself and just melt him with magic. Although making him fight Shale would've been fun, too: "Teyrn Loghian, you have the right to appeal by honorable combat, but you can only win if you can defeat my 7-foot-tall magical golem made of stone. Good luck!"

 

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All this discussion about Alistair is fascinating - and it's the first I've heard of it because

I've always had Alistair duel Loghain at the landsmeet, so there was never an option even to discuss sparing him. That always seems so appropriate, I never thought to fight him myself

.

I considered letting

Al fight, simply for dramatic purposes. But two high-level sword & shield warriors going up against each other in that ruleset, with no other combatants to provide the second half of the "tank 'n spank," and the darkspawn would've burned Denerim to the ground before they finished up. Plus the whole idea of a duel didn't seem particularly fair to me after the Landsmeet voted against him, so I decided not to play fair myself and just melt him with magic. Although making him fight Shale would've been fun, too: "Teyrn Loghian, you have the right to appeal by honorable combat, but you can only win if you can defeat my 7-foot-tall magical golem made of stone. Good luck!"

 

 

I tried that and Loghain completely owned Shale.

 


The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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so... who said pick pocket were a big score for human noble origin and ostegar?

 

*snort*

 

vivid imagination. "nothing to steal" is common for most soldiers at ostegar, and those targets who does have 1007 typical produce a few bits, a deep mushroom or an elfroot. we did get a belt that boosts con by 1 point, and some ice arrows. what a waste of a skill point.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Ice and Fire Arrows/Bolts are great to sell early in the game. It took me a while to realize that the value was per arrow, and not for the whole stack. I tend to underuse consumables, so I hardly notice when they're gone, and the payout is quite nice.

 

Other thing I realized embarrassingly late: How to look up.

 

 

My Dwarven rogue is just about to enter the Tower in Ostagar. That freebie DLC dagger is destabilizingly powerful if you pump your Dex to unlock it at level 4. (It requires 26.) I might have to forgo its use on principle for a little while. (Although I already sold the plain ol' grey iron dagger I was using before the level-up, so I guess I'm stuck with it for a little while longer.) Before I could use it, I was noticing how going from Normal to Hard and from Mage to Rogue had increased the difficulty (Jory came out of the Wilds with 3 injuries); now the fights breeze by in a haze of 20+ HP backstabs.

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"That freebie DLC dagger is destabilizingly powerful if you pump your Dex to unlock it at level 4. (It requires 26.)"

 

didn't you say that such stuff is for wusses?

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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I think I'll stick to hard. I don't see any particular reason to go to Nightmare other than bragging rights, and I don't tend to care about that. I think I must be getting close to the end game right now and I've been pretty happy with the difficulty. It's definitely possible to get killed in the game. I'll be the diplomat and say that I think both the bandits in Denerim and SPOILER were tough fights on hard, but I was never really irritated. The hardest crit path fight I've had was against the beastie in the Brecilian Forest until some of you glorious bastards put me on to the traps. Once I knew what was what, that fight wasn't so hard. Things got progressively easier after that, although I did have to save a few big Forest battles until later. Those have been my hardest in the game so far and they weren't crit path.

 

I don't have any of the DLC, including one that I'm apparently supposed to have from my STEAM purchase. I should look it up, but I don't really care all that much about DLC goodies. I might purchase mods that look like they have some gameplay meat on them, however.

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"That freebie DLC dagger is destabilizingly powerful if you pump your Dex to unlock it at level 4. (It requires 26.)"

 

didn't you say that such stuff is for wusses?

 

HA! Good Fun!

So I did. Heh.

 

If it had taken any effort at all to download, I'd never have gotten it (see: Blood Dragon Armor). But it just popped up in my inventory without asking, and I was planning on doing a high-dex dagger-wielding rogue, so I figured I'd give it a try.

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Hey, if the dagger doesn't appear in your inventory, how would one get it? I bought the game at launch so I believe i qualify for getting it. I have never been one to complain about excess advantages in a game :w00t:

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I don't see any particular reason to go to Nightmare other than bragging rights, and I don't tend to care about that.

 

 

we recently started a new game on nightmare. am having a hard time recognizing a difference 'tween hard and nightmare.

 

as for how to get dlc you may not necessarily have earned/paid for... apparently so many folks has had problems getting the dlc that at the bio social site there is directions for manual installs of all the dlc.

 

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/81613

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Never mind, apparently it wasn't enough to buy the game, and create an account. I had to make a separate registration on the website to get this apparently. You would think making an account for the game would be enough, oh well.

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You should've just double clicked on The Edge in the DLC menu in the game.


"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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I think I'll stick to hard. I don't see any particular reason to go to Nightmare other than bragging rights, and I don't tend to care about that.

 

As Grommy says there's not too much difference between Hard and Nightmare - especially as you get more used to the game.

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