QTEs ??

[Perseus Veil]

I hate the QTEs, I hate Shenmue, Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain...

 

I know AP is not the same, but these dialogue options can be considered QTEs (limited time for response)?? there will be other QTEs in AP, not only with dialogue ??

 

 

QTE (Quick Time Event)

[alanschu]

If you wish to consider them Quick Time Events then fine, but the fact of the matter is it's not much different than a conversation system like Mass Effect, except with a timer. You get a brief description of the general tone of your response, and pick it.

 

They just give you a timed response because they want the player to have to make fluid and quick decisions (like a spy) and not sit there and metagame for 40 minutes pondering exactly what the best dialogue option is for a current situation.

Edited October 7, 2009 by alanschu

[Perseus Veil]

mmm... Well, seen from this perspective seems more interesting than schizophrenic Mass Effect options.

[Raithe]

From what's been shown and mentioned, the dialogue systems is geared towards giving a sense of urgency and pacing to the events... and combined with the fact that you can't "loop" the conversation repeatedly.

Once it's been said, it's done.

No testing multiple answers...

[Oner]

From what's been shown and mentioned, the dialogue systems is geared towards giving a sense of urgency and pacing to the events... and combined with the fact that you can't "loop" the conversation repeatedly.

Once it's been said, it's done.

No testing multiple answers...

Not in one playthrough.

[Lady Evenstar]

They just give you a timed response because they want the player to have to make fluid and quick decisions (like a spy) and not sit there and metagame for 40 minutes pondering exactly what the best dialogue option is for a current situation.

 

It could be pondering the "best dialogue option." It could also just be pondering how I want to roleplay my character. Either way it's about playing the way they want me to rather than in the way I will enjoy most, and I'm left wondering why they made choices that they had to realize would limit the game's appeal to some players of RPGs. I suppose the expectation was that the game would attract more than enough folks who play other genres to make up the loss, but I still find it puzzling that in something as tone-setting as their first original IP they'd want to send "not for you" messages to a segment of their long-term customers.

[Raithe]

Not in one playthrough.

 

True... But then it's been mentioned that choices you make in conversations can have influences hours of game play later.. so on later playthroughs a few different choices might have you dealing with something quite different...

I'm interested to see just how much of an effect it will be. After all, they said much the same about DE: Invisible War and look how that turned out...

[Grone]

I actually disagree with the current rage against QTEs. Zero Punctuation isn't a God, even he can be wrong. On most occations, sure, QTEs suck balls, but if they're used as an integrated part of the game, I like them. I like Fahrenheit alot, but I hated the last half of the story. I think the QTE-choice was perfect for that game though.

[alanschu]

They just give you a timed response because they want the player to have to make fluid and quick decisions (like a spy) and not sit there and metagame for 40 minutes pondering exactly what the best dialogue option is for a current situation.

 

It could be pondering the "best dialogue option." It could also just be pondering how I want to roleplay my character. Either way it's about playing the way they want me to rather than in the way I will enjoy most, and I'm left wondering why they made choices that they had to realize would limit the game's appeal to some players of RPGs.

 

I don't understand how pondering how you want to roleplay your character takes as long as all the skeptics seem to make. For starters, you can already begin to decide on an appropriate way to roleplay your character based on your character's previous responses with the NPC that you are dealing with, based on previous responses your character has already made.

 

Moving forward, for the specific line of dialogue, you can already begin to decide on a type of response (especially since you know 3 of the types of responses already, for every situation you approach) as the character speaks. You already do this as a human being in real life interactions, so you are already well practiced in doing this. I'd argue that if you're already doing a good job of being in the character you're roleplaying, this actually won't be very difficult at all.

 

 

I still find it puzzling that in something as tone-setting as their first original IP they'd want to send "not for you" messages to a segment of their long-term customers.

 

Because I adamantly disagree that they are sending that message at all. My favourite RPG is far and away Planescape: Torment, but I am very much looking forward to Alpha Protocol. Because like Planescape: Torment, they are doing something different in an attempt to enhance the experience of playing RPG games. A lot of people were initially turned off (and I'd argue still are, unfortunately) by the gigantic walls of text and unfamiliar setting of Planescape: Torment. Look at how the long-term customers think back on that game now.

 

 

I know something different is scary for a lot of people, and personally I think people are doing a disservice to themselves to skip on this game for a game mechanic they aren't familiar with.

[Raithe]

It's suffering from the "it's different!" thing.

Until we actually get to sit down and play with and and see how it feels.. it seems rather silly to say whether it's going to be a brilliant concept, an appalling concept, or just a mediocre one. It might be fluid, it might be jarring.

It might be something that will really suit this game but would never work in something else.

You just can't tell without playing it. Because it's something "new". The Mass Effect dialogue approach might be similar, but there are a fair few differences from what's been mentioned about it.

 

But people will be people when things crop up that they think they'll be uncomfortable with even if they don't really have a basis to judge it on.

[No_Aardvarks_Allowed]

I don't understand why it couldn't be an optional setting like autoaim, music or whatever. And I don't buy the whole argument that it makes for edge-of-the-seat realism, enhanced immersion "having to make quick decisions like a spy", or what else have been said about it - after all, it is possible to pause the game in the middle of a firefight, right?

[alanschu]

Well, I don't understand why it's such a handicap/hindrance to the enjoyment of people's games?

 

 

Maybe I'm just buying what Obsidian is selling, but I can foresee the tension of dialogues increasing as a result.

 

 

The problem with your analogy is that you don't pause the game in combat and kill all the badguys. The tension there still comes from the actual combat. The small benefits you may (or may not) gain by spotting someone or whatever is not the entire solution to your problem, whereas removing the timer from the conversation completely circumvents the type of experience that Obsidian is looking to provide.

[Matthew Rorie]

We don't really have any Quick Time Events to speak of, as far as I can recall.

[Purkake]

I actually disagree with the current rage against QTEs. Zero Punctuation isn't a God, even he can be wrong. On most occations, sure, QTEs suck balls, but if they're used as an integrated part of the game, I like them. I like Fahrenheit alot, but I hated the last half of the story. I think the QTE-choice was perfect for that game though.

 

How does Yahtzee come into this? It's not like we're all his acolytes or something.

 

I wonder what buttons we'll use on the keyboard for the 4 options... Ctrl, Space, Enter and Alt?

Edited October 7, 2009 by Purkake

[Gorth]

I was wondering about that (Yatzee reference) too

 

I've hated them since before I even knew they had a name (QTE), not that it is that long ago, mind you. Tomb Raider Legends was the first time I hated them passionately. Somebody at Eidos must have listened to the collective wailing, because Underworld was blessedly free of them, sans a few "adrenaline moments".

[Oner]

I don't mind them much when they're done PoP: Two Thrones style, but the way the newest PoP did it is horrible.

[Pop]

Dialogue in this game doesn't look QTE-ish because there's not supposed to be a "correct" sequence.

 

I don't like QTEs because often they're not really implemented smoothly. They're either rote marathons (as in the latter half of Indigo Prophecy) or they're cut in with regular gameplay, which makes them exceedingly difficult to master given the pace of the game and the abruptness with which they appear (Prototype and the like)

[Purkake]

I feel that QTEs are like a cop-out. The developer can't or won't think of an actual mechanic for something and instead makes you push a bunch of buttons (semi-)randomly. It's also really abstract and game-y, there's nothing like having a flashing red "a" popping up on the screen to break immersion.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Purkake

[kreese12]

Ya most QTE's are like a spice. You can bit here and there to provide an unexpected little kick -- but they can't carry the flavor on their own.

 

Sorry that was a somewhat unnecessary metaphor.

[kingofsquid]

Well, it made sense.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I have a love-hate relationship with QTEs. On one hand, they allow you the player to do badass things that game developers haven't ever really scripted a good mechanic for (e.g. the recent heavy-rain trailer where the detective wrestles with the robber for a gun; or the special kills in the God of War games). At a basic level, gaming is just pushing buttons with correct timing anyway, not really a one-to-one process in most cases.

 

On the other hand, like any mechanic, developers also demonstrate a skillful ability to screw them up or misuse them. Why do I need to push a button for my character to dodge in this cutscene but not the next one? Cognitive psychology can give developers a good idea of how much time a person needs to react from a state of relaxed awareness, and it's longer than a lot of games' QTE windows.

 

I think ideally QTEs will gradually fade into obscurity as game interfaces improve, but in a timeframe of decades rather than years. In the meantime they pretty much serve their purpose.

[Gorth]

If the developer absolutely have to wrest control away from the player, they might as well just make a short, well made cut scene if they can't explain things in-game. I am not *that* attention challenged and feel rather insulted when being presented by a big blue arrow telling me that I have to press a button pointing in a particular direction. Depending on the pace, the work that goes into any cinematics is wasted as all you pay attention to is those 4th wall breaking icons flashing on your screen.

[Bos_hybrid]

QTE can be evil, the Resident Evil games prove this.

 

I however can't remember hating them so much in Shenmue.

[Nepenthe]

I know something different is scary for a lot of people, and personally I think people are doing a disservice to themselves to skip on this game for a game mechanic they aren't familiar with.

 

I am in agreement with the above.

 

While I think the concept is a bit gimmicky, I'm very intrigued in seeing how it plays out and quite looking forward to it.

[Humodour]

We don't really have any Quick Time Events to speak of, as far as I can recall.

 

Oh, so you still have a game? Hasn't been cancelled?