Aristes Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 I used to own a bow, but it's gone now. I've shot several bows, my favorites being the beat up old bows at the Ren Faire and the bright red child's toy bow we had at a ren fairesque party. Ahem, sorry to go off topic. I'm sure they'll have bows and crossbows aplenty in Dragon Age. Maybe just one or the other, but probably both.
Monte Carlo Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Did they actually have small units back then? Shouldn't they have set fire to stuff and spoil the food/water supplies? I'm pretty sure they didn't have 6-man squads back then. That's my entire point: CRPG combat often boils down to squad-level tactics using weapons designed for large units. Of course, small unit skirmishes have always been a feature of warfare but the preferred personal weapon of the warrior throughout history, give or take an exception or two, has been a three foot long piece of sharp metal of some description and a shield. Crossbows? Great in fifty man lines, useless in a six man ruckus. Polearms? Fabulous when you're two hundred deep facing cavalry, useless in a building fighting the evil humanoid du jour. Flamberge / Zweihander / Claymore? Great for hacking through stacks of armoured footmen in the middle of a field, useless in a 10 x 10 room. I could go on. Tunnel-rat dungeon combat would involve short swords, poleaxes, daggers, stilettos, misericords, kamas, maces, warhammers and other compact, nasty, brutish melee weapons. The other large weapons are there to add flavour and echo the knight-in-shining-armour meme. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but when you start thinking about your character armed with a crossbow and a halberd in a dungeon....
Purkake Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 A crossbow would be much handier in tight quarters. I can see it being useful to snipe the mage(s) in a fantasy setting.
HoonDing Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) Having someone in heavy armor during a dungeon crawl doesn't make much sense either. The beasties would hear the knight ringing & clanging from 5 miles away... not to mention the knight would never be able to keep up with the light-armored companions. Heavily armored warriors dashing across the screen in games is always hilarious to watch. In the quintessential dungeon crawl, the Mines of Moria in LOTR, the heaviest armor worn was ringmail by the dwarf. Edited September 2, 2009 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
~Di Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I will spare you another acerbic episode because you joined about five minutes ago and presumably have better things to do than read all my old posts Um, first, I meant those two "acerbic episodes" you just had about the weapons Second, if you really just said that because you have been a member here for 5 years you are somehow above me, I think I have to go outside and laugh. Hard. Go and walk into a bar, sit in the pub bore's favourite chair he's been sat in since forever and start telling him to calm down. Get over yourself. This isn't a senority-based social club. New members have just as much right to be here as the rest of us, and condescention toward other posters because of how long they've been here isn't appropriate. Common courtesy goes a long way. I suggest it is you who should get over yourself.
cronicler Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Crossbows do have their uses. The little fact that you can have it armed and ready to go makes it ideal to prowl with it and take a free potshot at the opening of the combat. after that, you switch to your meele weapon. It is also really easy to train and use compared to bows. Even your average shortbow requires 2 hands and some decent strenght. (Also if you want to cheese, until you get your second attack per round, Crossbows offer the best bang for your only attack. Or any similar situation, where you have only 1 chance like sneak-attacking low to mid level thief scouting ahead and so on) That said, I also agree that anything bigger than a longsword (or maybe bastard/falchion sword) begins to strech the limits of plusibility. (Yes I hate blademasters with schytes) IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Aren't flamberges really big swords? Also, I don't mind the weapons being too big, as long as the animation works with them. If I see a giant 7 foot sword clipping through someone's arm, then I'll start asking questions. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
Aristes Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Good point. "Oh, I'm sorry good elf, didst I inadvertantly hack off thine arm whilst turning?" "Oh no, goodly knight, it was merely a clipping issue. No blood, no foul." With a dwarf, it'd be their head, but you get the picture. A little bit of clipping won't bother me personally, but a lot will and clipping could combine with other things to diminish my opinion of the game. Clipping and Zfighting and whatnot should be something good ol' alan could answer. heh heh Not that I'm fishing for info or anything.
alanschu Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Whew, today was a busy day. With respects to weapon sizes, I also have the most play/test time with the human body frame, which is the largest, so larger weapons make less of an obvious visual impact.
Maria Caliban Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Does DA:O have any crafting? Yes. There's mana? Didn't know that. Can you map potions to hotkeys and chug them as you release endless volleys of fireballs? Yes. Totally. In fact, BioWare is going to change the name of the mage class to OMFGPWNU! And they've replaced the mage staff with the Fatman. Edited September 3, 2009 by Maria Caliban "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Monte Carlo Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I suggest it is you who should get over yourself. I have.
kirottu Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 There's mana? Didn't know that. Can you map potions to hotkeys and chug them as you release endless volleys of fireballs? Yes. Totally. In fact, BioWare is going to change the name of the mage class to OMFGPWNU! And they've replaced the mage staff with the Fatman. It better be in slow motion everytime you lolpwn some monster. Otherwise it This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
alanschu Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I'd take an army of English Longbowmen or an army of Mongol horsebowmen over an army of crossbowmen any day. Crossbows have their advantages, but let's not forget the instances where the two armies met and the longbow clearly outdid the crossbow. That English runt, sharpening his bodkin head arrow on the steps of the local church was a fearsome person to face on the battlefield. That little bastard was strong and the vast majority of us here on this message board would have little chance of drawing his bow. Many of us would undoubtedly injure ourselves trying. *shrug* Let's have a good natured fight over bow vs crossbow. It's been a while. That's like saying you'd take special forces vs regular infantry.
Gorth Posted September 3, 2009 Author Posted September 3, 2009 Shooting a bow and arrow takes skill and practise/training. Any peasant can be given a crossbow and told to point it *that* way while pulling the trigger... “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Aristes Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I'd take an army of English Longbowmen or an army of Mongol horsebowmen over an army of crossbowmen any day. Crossbows have their advantages, but let's not forget the instances where the two armies met and the longbow clearly outdid the crossbow. That English runt, sharpening his bodkin head arrow on the steps of the local church was a fearsome person to face on the battlefield. That little bastard was strong and the vast majority of us here on this message board would have little chance of drawing his bow. Many of us would undoubtedly injure ourselves trying. *shrug* Let's have a good natured fight over bow vs crossbow. It's been a while. That's like saying you'd take special forces vs regular infantry. Well, in a way, although I'd never thought of it quite like that. Clever though, in the good sense. The English fielded longbowmen in their armies and I think they integrated their men at arms with mounted knights and longbowmen very well. They also managed to manipulate the French into some questionable tactical and strategic decisions, and I mean both when I say both. Contrary to some accounts, it seems pretty clear that the French did field Genoese crossbowmen, but they didn't deploy them well. The crossbowmen failed to sustain a rate of fire anywhere near the longbowmen. It's probably not quite a special forces v regular infantry thing, but it is an apt comparison and there's some truth to that. I don't want to derail the thread, but I do find it interesting to talk about how PC use the weapons in these games. I remember... Borderlands? Badlands? It was a game where you played mostly in Germany. There was quite a variety of weaponry from which to choose, but it all made sense in the setting. The game was so buggy that it got a bad rep, so the series ended at the first one and Microprose(I think) ended folding anyhow. In that game there were firearms, I think of the black powder variety. There were also bows and crossbows and I think the designers managed to catch the quirks of the weapons really well. I've fired a few crossbows before in real life. One rather large sumbitch and a hand crossbow that I'm sure would probably only serve to piss off someone chasing me. A good shot with it might have done the trick, though, and even if it wounded the other guy that would be a huge advantage. The thing about crossbows, and someone else said this already, is that you don't have to pull the bowstring for the initial shot. I don't know how long you could keep the crossbow pulled, but I imagine it would be longer than feasible for someone to walk around with a drawn boy. *shrug* Someone could correct me if I'm wrong. In a situation where you get an initial volley, literally having the draw on your opponent could come in handy, although I think the rapid rate of fire for a bow would be a great boon if you knew you were going to fight and could draw when needed. I've never fired a black powder firearm before, so I have no idea how that would work. Smoky, maybe? I'm sure that DA won't have black powder weapons, but I think they could be used in such a setting very well. Probably the biggest problem is folks getting nervous that it's going to end up steampunk instead of straight sword and sorcery. All this aside, I'm playing a mage, which I hope translates to ranged death for the bad guys. I like bows and all, but the point of playing a fantasy game is to weild magic. Now, if the setting were low magic, I'd be fine with it. The irony is, I'd probably play a sword and boarder.
RPGmasterBoo Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Darklands. Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
Maria Caliban Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I'm sure that DA won't have black powder weapons, but I think they could be used in such a setting very well. Probably the biggest problem is folks getting nervous that it's going to end up steampunk instead of straight sword and sorcery. The qunari have cannons, but your PC won't be seeing/using any handguns. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Syraxis Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Does DA:O have any crafting? Yes. There's mana? Didn't know that. Can you map potions to hotkeys and chug them as you release endless volleys of fireballs? Yes. Totally. In fact, BioWare is going to change the name of the mage class to OMFGPWNU! And they've replaced the mage staff with the Fatman. Will BIO have a custom ui for mages where their most powerful offensive spell at the time will automatically be mapped to a button dubbed the 'I WIN' button? [sent from phone]
HoonDing Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 "I win" spells are perfectly fine, as long as it's compensated by taking 100 rounds to cast. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Aristes Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Darklands. Yes, that's it! Great game done in by bad bugs. I was really looking forward to the other areas they were going to do. Greater Germany was the first game and they had plans for France and England I think. I loved the way they did everything using the real world map. It was very low magic also. I'm looking forward to Dragon Age, but it's definitely high fantasy. I'd heard at one point that it was going to be a low magic setting, but that doesn't seem to be the case now.
alanschu Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 The game has been around for several years. A lot of its ideas have come and gone (and come back again!) over the several years hahaha.
Monte Carlo Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I'm looking forward to Dragon Age, but it's definitely high fantasy. I'd heard at one point that it was going to be a low magic setting, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. Yeah, I remember some of the original concept art and it almost had a bleak, Conan-esque type feel to it. But like the man says, that was ages ago and stuff changes. DA is high fantasy, maybe not as campy as the Forgotten Realms, but still identifiably high-ish fantasy.
Pop Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I don't think I'd classify the FR as high fantasy. Dragonlance was definitely more in the LOTR-aping vein. Dragonlance always did bore the **** out of me. Dragon Age looks like it might do the same. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
Monte Carlo Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Pop, although I don't think that there's an official High-Fantasy-O-Meter, if there was the FR would make it explode. Magical portals, epic heroes, dragons around every corner, quasi-medieval memes of chivalry and monarchy, hot elf chicks, Elminster in a pointy hat, exotic locales loosely based on R/W historical cultures, enchanted swords, evil gods, dungeons under every hill, barn and tree? That's a pretty standard definition of high fantasy. From what we've seen of Dragon Age we can turn the High Fantasy volume down significantly, but some of the key elements are present. Now, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with high fantasy (the FR can become quite tongue-in-cheek in the right hands, and it's a bit of a laugh) it's just that it's a bit over-egged in CRPGs. I think that Bio didn't want to scare the horses for understandable commercial reasons and went with a pretty vanilla setting, just with lots of blood to differentiate it. Maybe Dave Gaider's sneaking lots of stuff under the radar using vanilla fantasy as top cover, we'll see. Cheers MC
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