New Dragon Age discussion thread

[Nightshape]

@Volo

Are you disagreeing with me or...?

 

He disagree's with everyone because he feels he must... That said he has on most extreme and rare occasions agree'd with people but this is usually on trival things.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Plenty of fantasy novels have romances - some are barely more believeable than popular romances, but others are quite well done. Surely game writers have a starting point in the conventions of the genre, and then the freedom to take it darker or more realistic if they wish.

 

I'd recommend the love story between Robin Hobb's Fitz and the Fool to anyone.

[Gromnir]

a friend o' ours once noted that the "write what you know" stuff is bs. good fiction is a realized dream that is compelling and entertaining in large part because the stories being told ain't mundane and ain't even possible. the tiny fraction o' knowledge a writer needs to makes a story Feel real 'nuff to get reader to suspend disbelief is hardly worth noting.

 

...

 

am not a 100% believer o' such a pov. writing from pov o' first hand experience is useful. is details that the casual or weekend participant is unaware o' and so will leave out o' story. a non-hunter writing story 'bout hunting won't necessarily seem fraudulent, but a hunter with considerable experience simply has more genuine material from which to draw and create a believable fantasy/fiction 'bout hunting. am s'posing that romance is similar. Gromnir could write a hunting story and make it believable even to hunters... 'cause we has considerable experience hunting (though not for decades.) but what if we tries to write hunt story from deer pov? luckily there ain't many deer that is complain that we got wrong... but women?

 

ain't never been a deer... or a woman. Gromnir write 'bout being a deer or a woman has gotta be based 'pon 'magination and research rather than personal experience. 'course virtual all Gromnir's editors in past has been women and they has been quite willing to inform us when we has Mary or Jane or Nancy acting in a way that is implausible to women.

 

regardless, Gromnir can go through list o' the greatest love/romance stories in literary history and a large number o' those stories is going to have been written by men.

 

write what you know? is maybe overstating. better rule: don't pretend to know more than you do. sometimes saying less = more.

 

clarification:

 

Gromnir has never worked in a bakery. for all we know, bread is made by bread gnomes who insures that there is fresh baked goods for Gromnir to purchase at 5:00 am. nevertheless, we could write a story 'bout a baker with little fear. no, we ain't gonna pretend that we know every detail o' the baking industry, but a little research would provide some details... 'least nuff so that our character seemed like a baker. Babbitt is a story 'bout a real estate sales person, but very little real estate sales is happening in that book. Rabbit is Rich is a story 'bout an ex-jock owner of a car dealership, and as far as we know, Updike don't own a car dealership... and am sure that he were never part of a state championship high school basketball team. just as Babbitt ain't 'bout real estate sales, and Rabbit ain't 'bout basketball, our baker's story wouldn't be 'bout baking.

 

'course if we wanted to write a story 'bout baking...

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 25, 2008 by Gromnir

[Musopticon?]

I'd recommend the love story between Robin Hobb's Fitz and the Fool to anyone.

Can of worms, open!

[Gromnir]

I'd recommend the love story between Robin Hobb's Fitz and the Fool to anyone.

Can of worms, open!

 

 

that woman has more names than english royalty. in any event, is that one of megan lindholm's poncey homersexual romances? never been a fan o' lindholm/hobbs.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[SteveThaiBinh]

*sigh* Yes, Gromnir, that's precisely what it is. Nevertheless, a romance in a fantasy setting can be 'unrealistic' and at the same time well-written and compelling, and need not have a happy ending, at least not the conventional one.

[Gromnir]

*sigh* Yes, Gromnir, that's precisely what it is.

 

 

just checking. as we said, Gromnir ain't fan o' lindholm... and that ain't specific 'cause o' her predilection for poncey mano y mano romance.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

My girlfriend read a novel (for amusement)

 

Keep telling yourself that Josh

[J.E. Sawyer]

So what was Sawyer saying with that quote?

The romances that the majority of people seem to enjoy in stories typically have very little to do with the romances we collectively experience (or don't, as the case may be) in real-life.

 

Compare the love scene in Braveheart with the love scene in Name of the Rose, for instance. One makes people all misty-eyed and the other makes people uncomfortably shift in their seats and examine their shirt for coffee stains. Kind of like comparing dueling in Zeffirellii's Hamlet to the duels in Scott's The Duellists. The latter tries to portray dueling realistically and as a result makes it unappealing for people that have lots of Olde Tyme sword fantasies.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Fu1c-Djc8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wVTtDo8Fbw

 

Love and war in real-life are awkward, fumbling messes. Most people (judging by what is popular) don't want that experience in their fantasies. So don't worry too much about applicable experience; it has little bearing on what people will enjoy.

[Dark_Raven]

What they need is female writers to write the romances.

What they need is female characters to have romances. With each other. All the time. With SLI anisotropic filtering.

Sure why not.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

...SLI anisotropic filtering.

 

Sounds sexy.

[Xard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Fu1c-Djc8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wVTtDo8Fbw

 

Have to say I prefer latter by far

[newc0253]

ain't never been a deer... or a woman.

 

Gromnir has never worked in a bakery.

 

hmm, three things we didn't know about Gromnir, at least two of which we probably could have guessed.

 

btw, i've always thought 'write what you know' was horsesh1t. yes, by all means write what you know if that's what enables you to write well. but if what you know is double entry bookkeeping, i'd prefer you keep it to yourself and write about something that interests you instead.

 

truth is, for every great writer whose stuff was born of experience (e.g. Solzhenitsyn in the gulag), a lot of great literature was written by folk with first hand experience of diddly jack squat. Shakespeare may have been familiar with the ways of the english court but i'm pretty sure he was never washed up on a magical island or fought in the trojan war. Dumas was never imprisoned in the Ch

Edited August 26, 2008 by newc0253

[Gromnir]

how 'bout the fantasy/children story o' a dough kneading doe... working for enough dough to open her own bakery? sorta a horatio alger thing?

 

d'oh.

 

not that all o' those were similes in any event. as we said above with our suggested rule: don't pretend to know more than you do.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kelverin]

a lot of great literature was written by folk with first hand experience of diddly jack squat.

And a lot of terrible literature was written by folk with first hand experience of diddly jack squat. A lot of great literature was written by experts in subject they were writing about, A lot of terrible literature was written by experts in subject's they were writing about.

[Moatilliatta]

DAcentral has an interesting collection of screenshots on this page (and the next couple of pages) as well as a very interesting and long interview with DGaider from gamers with jobs.

 

Edit: For all the people who might think the blight is generic:

I think I know exactly what points you’re talking about. Now, for the world specifically, the... Throne of Ice and Fire? Song of Ice and Fire? Song of Fire and Ice... Ice and Fire... [the george r. r. martin book] it’s a little bit low magic. We have some low magic elements, I don’t think we go that low. Magic in Thedas is rarer, mages are distrusted for many good reasons. I should talk about the dark spawn. The dark spawn are sort of the... you look at them and think they’re sort of like Lord of the Rings rocs, right? And in that respect they are sort of the evil horde. The idea is there is so much more behind it. The reason why mages are so distrusted is that the Chantry - the church of the realm - teaches that a long time ago when mages ruled over Thedas they became powerful enough and proud enough they decided, you know we’re going to open up a gateway into Heaven. We’re going to usurp the Maker’s throne - the Maker being the sort of God as far as the Chantry is concerned. And they did. They opened up this gateway, and according to what the Chantry teaches, they stepped into Heaven... but mankind is a corrupt, sinful creature; he took a step into Heaven and he corrupted it with his own sin, he darkened it and turned it into the Black City, and that corruption got turned back in on themselves and they became... these mages got transformed into the first dark spawn and the Maker said "How dare you!", threw them back to earth, and they were the first dark spawn. They sort of repelled from the light, they went underground, they multiplied, and back then in ancient times they worshipped dragons, these are referred to as Old Gods, and the Chantry teaches that the Maker punished them for being false Gods and imprisoned them beneath the earth so these dark spawn, they search for these Old Gods, and when they find them they spread this corruption to them and the dragon wakes and rises as an Arch Demon. And when that happens the dark spawn rise with it and they’re like locusts: they spill out onto the surface and their goal is just to consume, to destroy everything. So it’s led by a dragon and that’s who these creatures are; they’re sort of like the sin of man given flesh. So, yes, they are orcs, but they’re not. So that’s why mages are so distrusted: look at what pride can do to mankind. This is where thinking you have enough power that you are a God, this is... by having that power you have doomed us. And of course the story in Dragon Age, this first story, is dealing with the fact that a blight has started again and it is your job to try and deal with it.

 

[dg] Yeah, we’ve done a lot content - this is a big game, one of the biggest we’ve attempted in a while... Baldurs Gate 2, kind of in a class of its own? Still, however, we’re talking about an extensive game. I can’t really say how long it’s going to be just yet until we get closer, but we’re talking about a lot of gameplay hours. The followers you’ve got, the idea is you’re going to be able to interact with them over a long period. Once you’re done you’re going to feel like you’ve had the long haul, the epic sort of journey to get the ending, and I think that’s what’s important.

I sure hope that I'tll be long.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Moatilliatta

[Gromnir]

am actually kinda disappointed with that explanation. Gaider has his Ultimate Bad Guy to take place of the Devil/Sauron... a UBG who leads an army o' the fallen. ain't really that much different than lord of rings mythology. tolkien orcs is essentially fallen/corrupted elves. pride were the devil's sin too, right?

 

...

 

nevertheless, am less concerned 'bout the big picture than we is 'bout how is implemented.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Moatilliatta]

I'm pretty sure you'll see a Bioware twist^TM before the end.

 

I highly doubt that the blight will remain completely the main bad guy, they're more of a way of introducing the game that will follow you through it.

 

Also which part of the "big picture" concerns you?

[Gromnir]

I'm pretty sure you'll see a Bioware twist^TM before the end.

 

I highly doubt that the blight will remain completely the main bad guy, they're more of a way of introducing the game that will follow you through it.

 

Also which part of the "big picture" concerns you?

 

as we noted, the big picture in broad strokes seems pretty traditional. there was this big spiel by biowarians early in development 'bout how they was doing different, but sure sounds familiar. but again, fact that the framework is traditional not mean that bio implementation must be boring or cliche. is all 'bout implementation.

 

use of conventions can be a shortcut or a load stone... or an opportunity for a deft writer. how is Gaider attempting to use... or does he thinks he is breaking new ground?

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[kirottu]

as we noted, the big picture in broad strokes seems pretty traditional. there was this big spiel by biowarians early in development 'bout how they was doing different, but sure sounds familiar. but again, fact that the framework is traditional not mean that bio implementation must be boring or cliche. is all 'bout implementation.

 

I could almost swore that Bioware comes up the basic setting by asking 100 people at street "what is the first thing that comes to your mind when you think about fantasy", and then making the setting around five most commonly given replies. Jade Empire and Mass Effect gave the same feeling to me.

[Tigranes]

So, yes, they are orcs, but they

[Wombat]

I like the engine of Bioware but I have never been happy with the cliched settings, the characters and the stories of it. Although the Chantry seems to have it's root in Medieval Christianity, Bioware is definitely going to make some turnarounds or twists in their plot. However, is this ground-breaking? At least, it would be still going behind some fantasy novel plots. As far as the setting is concerned, most Bioware fans are conformists, which makes it tough to change the trend from either designer side or player side. Should I hope Bethesda will make some change by introducing Fallout setting to the major audiences? To be fair, I find the trailers don't betray the bleak and dry atmosphere and humor in Fallout series, though. Unfortunately, speaking of originality, Obsidian's Alpha Protocol may be a new setting to CRPG but not to the major video game industry at all. BTW, I came across some screenshots of it and have found they are pretty much behind the current standard of industry, which is not a good sign for its success especially in console platforms...

[Volourn]

But, they're not orcs. Orcs aren't creatures that were corrupted when they wrongly entered heaven. Of coruse, that is if what the Chantry teaches *is* true, Not guaranteed.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I'm pretty sure you'll see a Bioware twist^TM before the end.

Ooh, is there an ancient forgotten Empire that left lots of interesting ruins, too?

 

Anyhow, if Volourn's right and these orcs are the way they are because they 'wrongly entered heaven', well, that doesn't seem like such a terrible crime. Moral ambiguity is always entertaining, although this writer does make some valid points, too.

[Tigranes]

But, they're not orcs. Orcs aren't creatures that were corrupted when they wrongly entered heaven. Of coruse, that is if what the Chantry teaches *is* true, Not guaranteed.

 

So is there a reason they look and behave and smell like Orcs? I mean, really?

 

I like my share of sweet BIO goodness but this explanation ain't cutting it. I hope at least that int he game they turn out to have complex political and social structures of their own that don't revolve around THE STRONG RULE ALL, WE KICK EACH OTHER IN THE BACKSIDES FOR DISCIPLINE and ENSLAVE NORMAL HUMANZ RAWR RAWR.