Your Top Ten Games

[thepixiesrock]

Right, I'm not saying games shouldn't have an art market, I'm just saying there isn't a company that fills that market right now

[Hurlshort]

I'd say the biggest issue is the technical dropoff between a blockbuster, major studio designed game and an indie project. A movie can still look good on a small budget. Sure, it won't be special effects laden, but you can grab a camera at Circuit City and make a watchable flick.

 

Eventually I think game design tools will evolve enough to allow indie studios to make games that look close to the big studio ones, but it isn't there yet. I'm sure some people will argue that graphics aren't everything, but unfortunately they are a huge deal for the majority of consumers. Indie games need to meet a certain minimal level in order to garner real sales.

 

Of course, the casual game market has been taken off lately. That's a promising development for smaller designers.

[Pidesco]

Right, I'm not saying games shouldn't have an art market, I'm just saying there isn't a company that fills that market right now

 

But aren't you saying that the art market for games isn't really exploitable right now?

[thepixiesrock]

Alright yeah that's ture. I do think that.

[Slowtrain]

What do you guys mean by an art game and art market? Is that any game that has limited appeal, like a TB tactical squad combat game?

[thepixiesrock]

I'm using the term art game in a sort of abstract way. It lacks deffinition, but I think the easiest way to define it is a game that is a) not created for the purpose of making money and b) a game that's main focus isn't entertainment, but to achieve some sort of greater undefinable artistic value.

[Pidesco]

^What he said.

[Humodour]

I'm using the term art game in a sort of abstract way. It lacks deffinition, but I think the easiest way to define it is a game that is a) not created for the purpose of making money and b) a game that's main focus isn't entertainment, but to achieve some sort of greater undefinable artistic value.

 

a should be more: "not primarily created for the purpose of making money" even artists have to eat, and most of them still want to sell a bunch of copies of their works to both expose them to people and to help earn a living.

 

With such a modified definition, I'd generally consider a game like Torment 'true art', at least relative to the game markets of today and the past.

[random n00b]

I know.

Good. For a moment there, I thought you were supporting a baseless stance over another equally baseless stance.

 

 

I'm also basing it on the high rankings games such as PS:T and Fallout tend to get on "classic PC games" lists and things like that, and that they're highly regarded games for their plot, whether as the plot isn't the source of Mass Effects' acclaimed status, rather it's the flashy, fun, action packed interactive sci-fi movie zest to it that makes it awesome, which is what you'll find most people who've played the game and liked it compliment it on.

What were the selling points of PST and Fallout back in the day? Well-written plots exclusively?

 

You surely understand how there's little else for "classic" games to be remembered by, if not their story, and maybe atmosphere. You are making an unfair comparison between reviews that are written from a nostalgia-biased perspective, with the advantage of hindsight, and reviews of contemporary products that not only are expected to feature a decent narrative, but also to be up to the standards of today's technology (when not having an edge there).

 

The thing is, narrative was invented and perfected thousands of years ago. The rest of the elements in a game are still fairly virgin grounds and take more development time, while at the same time, get more attention because they are novelty. Until both games have become hopelessly outdated, reviews of genre "classics" will always make past times look better.

 

 

 

But when what is better is defined, is it still a completely objective concept? It's one thing to look for different things in the quality of a story, it's another to look for the same things in the quality of a story, but then be in favour of something that contradicts your views over something that doesn't.

 

And Bos has stated the qualities he looks for in a story, by pointing out the crap he doesn't want in a story that he thought wasn't in Mass Effect, and given that it's Xard, I know he'd look for the same qualities in a plot that Bos does, so what makes you think better hasn't been defined yet, since we know what qualities to compare in this instance, such as the character depth of the villains, the little back story details of the "setting", the character development quality and the pacing of the story?

No, no. I deliberately used "up" and "black", because you can make formal descriptions of both. "Better" is largely dependant (at best) on circumstances, when not on personal preference. Therefore, any definition you can give is only valid for yourself, at the time you gave it.

 

A conversation in which the same words have arbitrary meanings for the each participant is an absurd.

 

 

I'm using the term art game in a sort of abstract way. It lacks deffinition, but I think the easiest way to define it is a game that is a) not created for the purpose of making money and b) a game that's main focus isn't entertainment, but to achieve some sort of greater undefinable artistic value.

And, as is to be expected, the less definition the concept in question has, the more self-appointed "experts" on the field you can find. Cool beans.

[thepixiesrock]

Well I mean, I haven't studied games. It's easier for me to look at music and say, "This is what makes it art music, because it does this." So I'm sure art games could be defined in a different way than the broad deffinition I used. And if I was talking about a pure art game, it wouldn't be made with profit in mind in any way. If the developers needed to make some money to eat, they would make a regular game.

[Monte Carlo]

I can't put them in order, they were all extremely good fun in different ways at different times. However, my rule of thumb is simply the sheer amount of time put into playing them and enjoying myself:

 

Jagged Alliance 2

Baldurs Gate 1 / TotSC/ BG2 / ToB

Icewind Dale

Close Combat: 3&4 (Eastern Front / Normandy)

Medieval Total War

Medieval Total War 2 / Kingdoms

Dungeon Keeper

X-Com - Enemy Unknown

Fallout: Tactics (I am an army of one - so sue me)

Doom 2 (the only FPS I have ever loved!)

 

MC

[Slowtrain]

I can't put them in order, they were all extremely good fun in different ways at different times. However, my rule of thumb is simply the sheer amount of time put into playing them and enjoying myself:

 

Fallout: Tactics (I am an army of one - so sue me)

 

 

Army of two, MC! I thought it was a pretty good game. a little too maze like to really be tactical, but still fun.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Ok, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. might bump one of my other top-ten games.

[thepixiesrock]

Phillistines

[Volourn]

My top ten is the best top 10 in this thread.

[Setzer]

Man, this was tough but here goes....

 

1. Final Fantasy VI(SNES)

2. Baldur's Gate 2(PC)

3. MVP Baseball '05(XBOX)

4. Knights of the Old Republic(XBOX)

5. Castlevania Symphony of the Night(PSX)

6. Super Mario 64(N64)

7. Chrono Trigger(SNES)

8. Heroes of Might & Magic III(PC)

9. Final Fantasy IV(SNES)

10. World of Warcraft(PC)

 

If I could add several more to this list, they would include Legend of Zelda OOT, Icewind Dale, Final Fantasy Tactics, and GTA: LCS.

[BruceSmith]

1.Call of duty 4

2.Left 4 dead

3.Prince of Persia (warrior within)

4.Half life 2

5.Delta force

6.Race Driver: GRID

7.Prototype

8.Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

9.alf Life 2

10.Roller Coaster Tycoon 2

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Holy necropost, Batman!

 

1. Bioshock

2. KotOR 2 (but only with restored content and on the PC)

3. Deus Ex

4. Shadow of the Colossus

5. Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge

6. Call of Duty 4

7. FEAR 1

8. KotOR

9. Halo 3 (I know, it's a very average shooter but damnit, it was fun)

10. Dead Space

[Masterfade]

Since this thread has already been necroed, I see no harm done by posting my top ten list. In no particular order:

 

Milon's Secret Castle (Hudson)

The Elder Scrolls II : Daggerfall (Bethesda)

Fallout 2 (Black Isle Studios)

Uncharted Waters: New Horizons (KOEI)

World of Warcraft (Blizzard)

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (Firaxis)

Planescape:Torment (Black Isle Studios)

The Sims (Maxis)

Knights of the Old Republic (BioWare)

The Elder Scrolls III : Morrowind (Bethesda)

 

It's a shame there's no space left for at least one SimCity and one Heroes of Might and Magic titles. They're golden. Same for Deus Ex and Bloodlines.

[Volourn]

THE RTEURN

---------------

 

1. NWN

2. DA

3. NHL 08-10

4. MVP Baseball 2005

5. BG2

5. FO2

7. FF8

8. ME

9. BG1

10. FO1

Edited November 21, 2009 by Volourn

[entrerix]

in no order:

 

fallout/2

final fantasy 6-9 (counts as one game

deus ex

planescape torment

zelda ocarina of time

tie fighter

starcraft

diablo/2

metal gear solids

rock band

 

a few honorouble mentions: half life series, left4dead, resident evil 4, silent hill 2, system shock 2,

[Mamoulian War]

My top 10 of all times

 

1. Final Fantasy X

2. Final Fantasy X-2

3. Wing Commander III

4. Planescape: Torment

5. Baldur's Gate 2

6. Unreal Tournament Classic

7. UFO: Enemy Unknown (X-Com: UFO Defense)

8. Counter-Strike 1.5

9. Dissidia: Final Fantasy

10. DotA

[Nepenthe]

1. Baldur's Gate II SoA+ToB

2. Deus Ex

3. Kotor

3. Mass Effect

5. Kotor2

6. Max Payne 2

7. Baldur's Gate

8. Secret of the Silver Blades (mac os version with better graphics)

9. Red Alert II w. Yuri's Revenge

10. Hitman 2: Silent Assassin

 

I'm starting to think the PS3 might not have been such a good purchase, after all

 

Note: I don't have DAO yet!

[Maedhros]

1. GoldenEye 64

2. Championship Manager/Football Manager series

3. Warcraft III + TFT (Much due to custom games like Dota and Footman Frenzy)

4. Heroes 3 of Might and Magic

5. Perfect Dark 64

6. Zelda: Ocarina of Time

7. Morrowind

8. Kotor

9. Metal Gear Solid

10. Super Mario World

 

Honorable mention to World of Warcraft, the only mmorpg I've enjoyed playing.

[Hell Kitty]

Thief: The Metal Age

Thief: The Dark Project

Deus Ex

System Shock 2

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater*

Silent Hill 3*

Resident Evil Remake*

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

Dead Rising**

Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines

 

* I picked my favourite of the respective series, but I love them all.

** New Contender! Beat out Midwinter 2: Flames of Freedom, because as much as I loved that game back in the day it's completely unplayable now.

 

sweet ass adventure games

 

A Sierra fan I see. I was more of a Lucasfilm fan.

 

Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis

The Secret of Monkey Island: Lechuck's Revenge

The Secret of Monkey Island

Gabriel Knight 1: Sins of the Father

Labyrinth*

 

* Mostly nostalgia. My first ever adventure game.

 

And now that I'm all nostalgic, I also must mention the Amiga game Elf. It's combination of adventure game and platformer was the greatest thing ever, or at least I thought it was at the time.

 

Easy.