What's so bad about the dark side anyway?

[steelfiredragon]

umm pardon me but im not reading all this, places to go things to do.

 

anyway for those who played jedit academy, remember what kyle was saying about the force is that none of the powers are inherently good or evil, but merely how they were used and why that deterimned the outcome.

killing for the sake of killing is DS material

killing 5 to save 5000 is a grey area, while still evil, you end up breaking even

healing the child of his wounds is an unselfish thing.

 

 

and the ends justify the means is a darkside statement and its wrong.

its actually the means justify the ends or you get out of it of what you put into it.

[Benjamin Korr]

Well what Kyle said isnt exactly right. It's called the Potentium herasy. Kyle was a good Jedi and all, but he was a little off when he said this. That was his view on the darkside. Maybe he could resist the corruption better than others could. But the fact of the matter is, if you tap into the darkside for your power, you've given a little ground to it. And once you start to give ground, it becomes easier and easier to continue down its path.

[Lupus Deus]

Sorry for the lateness of this particular post, I was busy with some work for a while.

 

I disagree with that statement because in KotOR II you have Dark Nihilus (spelling?) using that power that completly destorys life/drains the Force from the planet or whatever he fed on at that particular moment.  Beyond that single point, I agree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you are saying that if say Master Vrook knew how to drain life from an entire planet, then he is evil? Like I've said, no force power is inherently light or dark. What if Vrook decides to never use that power? Or what if he uses it for good intentions or only uses it when the justification for the use of that power is reasonable?

 

I wasn't actually suggesting that using the power was evil because as Kreia put it, he doesn't necessaraly control the power, it controls him. If by believing that, then you could assume that Nihilus is not evil, because he cannot control what he does. And I realize I'm contradicting my previous post, but oh well lol. But then considering the way that SW is fictional, and it does have black & white, light & dark, you could then say Nihilus is "evil" when he is or is not depending on your views.

 

For example, would Revan be considered as evil if he drained the life out of someone who burnt his house down, pissed on the ashes, killed his parents and raped Bastila? I wouldn't blame Revan for slowly torturing the scumbag to death, and then finishing him off by slowly devouring his life in a scenario like that. Would you?

 

As to that, that is entirely up to how the person chooses to view life; does the person believe in absolute evil and absolute good, if so then they have the higher probability of deeming Revan "evil" for those acts. But then, seeing as how I have nothing against getting revenge, I wouldn't consider Revan to be "evil" for those acts, as he is just repaying in kind the... suffering persay.

 

The Jedi are retards. If someone uses force lightning, then to the Jedi, they're instantly bad, when that is not always the case. What if someone used force crush to crush a can of cool drink once they've finished it? Are they evil?

 

The Jedi shouldn't avoid using the dark side all together, as their would be benefits to using it. What the Jedi should of taught their students was how to use the dark side responsibly. How to not abuse it, to not treat it like a toy, kind of like with a car.

 

Of course the Jedi are retards lol, so are the Sith. They both adhere to one "side" of the Force and if anything goes against that it is suddenly labled "bad/good." As to that question of is someone used force crush, nah they wouldn't be "evil," to be honest I think it would be funny to watch lol. I completely agree with what you said in the second paragraph though, nicely put.

 

But in the end, Xard is right. Star Wars is a fictional fairytale world where the DS = evil and the LS = good. It's pretty stupid how it's portrayed that way, but Star Wars has always been simple, black and white and cartoonish.

 

Agreed.

 

In K3, I'd like to see DS'ders who are 'good' and LS'ders who are 'evil', just to show that you can use LS powers for evil intentions and you can use DS powers for good intentions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To be entirely honest, I'm not sure how LS powers could be used "evilly," that is, unless the person is being irritatable then they could use destory droid to get rid of some bothersome droid lol...

Edited December 23, 2006 by Lupus Deus

[Guest The Architect]

Sorry for the lateness of this particular post, I was busy with some work for a while.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's too late for apologies. It was of the up most priority for you to respond to my last post in this thread as soon as possible. To place work over posting in a gaming forum is deplorable.

 

But seriously, there's no need to be sorry.

 

I wasn't actually suggesting that using the power was evil because as Kreia put it, he doesn't necessaraly control the power, it controls him.  If by believing that, then you could assume that Nihilus is not evil, because he cannot control what he does.  And I realize I'm contradicting my previous post, but oh well lol.  But then considering the way that SW is fictional, and it does have black & white, light & dark, you could then say Nihilus is "evil" when he is or is not depending on your views.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, lets keep it simple and just settle with Nihilus being an evil, inhuman, :crazy: planet eating freak m'kay?

 

As to that, that is entirely up to how the person chooses to view life;  does the person believe in absolute evil and absolute good, if so then they have the higher probability of deeming Revan "evil" for those acts.  But then, seeing as how I have nothing against getting revenge, I wouldn't consider Revan to be "evil" for those acts, as he is just repaying in kind the... suffering persay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You and I both agree that in a scenario like that, it is acceptable for Revan to take revenge, but the problem with the Jedi in the KotOR games is that they see in absolutes, just like the Sith do, and would consider Revan to be to get revenge the way I said, which is just :crazy:.

 

Of course the Jedi are retards lol, so are the Sith.  They both adhere to one "side" of the Force and if anything goes against that it is suddenly labled "bad/good."  As to that question of is someone used force crush, nah they wouldn't be "evil," to be honest I think it would be funny to watch lol.  I completely agree with what you said in the second paragraph though, nicely put.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This was well put too.

 

So, the myth has been busted, someone else also believes that the Jedi and the Sith are retards. (w00t)

 

To be entirely honest, I'm not sure how LS powers could be used "evilly," that is, unless the person is being irritatable then they could use destory droid to get rid of some bothersome droid lol...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To be entirely honest, I'm not sure either. Ah...I guess there could be some evil Sith Lord in KotOR III who uses master heal to heal himself or herself if he/she is wounded in combat, or if he/she wishes to heal one of his/her allies or something, or your scenario might work.

Edited December 23, 2006 by The Architect

[DeathScepter]

To the Architect: There are philosophers and fanboys have a flexible system called the Shadow Jedi.

 

 

It is similar to the Grey Jedi but more independant minded players/philosophers.

[vaxen83]

 

Darksiders would get more joy out of their kills.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, would say that LS force users do it to avoid any situation from becoming worse then. Besides, being sadistic does mean being inhuman in many ways.

[Darth Mortis]

I'm under the impression that the general definition of light side/darkside is;

 

Light side; Using the Force for the benefit of others

 

Dark side; Using the force for your own benefit

 

(This of course ignores the fact that Jedi always use the force for their own benefit in fights..)

 

In the new jedi order books Luke Skywalker eventally comes to realise that the major problem with this definition is that you can use it to excuse any action you take-ie,"for the greater good". Jedi are therefore taught about the light and darksides as absolutes not because they may be true, but because otherwise they might start excusing their actions as being good when they are not-ie "we killed this person because we had reason to think they would kill someone".

[CSI: Nihilus]

I'm under the impression that the general definition of light side/darkside is;

 

Light side; Using the Force for the benefit of others

 

Dark side; Using the force for your own benefit

 

(This of course ignores the fact that Jedi always use the force for their own benefit in fights..)

 

In the new jedi order books Luke Skywalker eventally comes to realise that the major problem with this definition is that you can use it to excuse any action you take-ie,"for the greater good". Jedi are therefore taught about the light and darksides as absolutes not because they may be true, but because otherwise they might start excusing their actions as being good when they are not-ie "we killed this person because we had reason to think they would kill someone".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not entirely true. LS: Using the Force for benefit of others, true. LSers use Force Persuades and other force powers to avoid fight as possible.

 

But DS: Using the power for your own benefit: Not entirely true, because they love war, love betrayal, and other stuff...But what you said is true.

[many pineapples have falle]

the dark side is just an illusion the jedi created to keep their subjects under their tighter rule. The force is a power source, you either control it, or let it control you. The sith take the force and bend it to their will. i think their is absolutely nothing wrong with "the dark side" of the force. GO SITH!!!!!!

[many pineapples have falle]

i like the stability of things inthe dark side but beings need to be free and not mistreated.

grey rocks

[Calax]

...

 

darkside =/= Stable.

 

Darkside=Chaos in cahoots with sadism (at least, how it's "Choices" are potrayed by the kotors and the Jedi Knight series.

[Dark_Raven]

Yay for necroposting.

 

Darkside powers are awesome. Those peaceful hippy wanna be Jedis prefer you to use pacifist powers. What good are they if you are being fried with Force Storm or Drain Life?

[SteveThaiBinh]

I suppose if you were part of the 0.1% of the population able to use the Force, the Sith side might be superficially attractive until somebody slightly more powerful than you decides to kill you for fun - honestly, their employee turnover rate must be horrendous. For the rest of us poor mundane souls, I'd prefer to live in the messy, bureaucratic Republic with its meddling hippy Jedi than under the heel of the fascist warmongering Sithies.

[Omelette]

Jumping in here with my own two cents...enjoy them...

 

I think I've said this before, but I'll spout out my little comment again. I personally, along with some others, I'm probably sure, believe that it's more about situational ethics more than it is about moral ethics. Sure, you may have a good plan on how to behave an what to do when something comes up, but it's your actions that determine your character, not your words, in said situation. Good and bad are labels on an action set by one side of the orders, Jedi or Sith. It all depends on your personal perspective of what good and bad is.

 

The Dark Side and the Light Side are just two extremes of the Force users. One side professes to be doing good, the other to try and strengthen themselves, blah blah blah. It doesn't really matter because both have lied and/or gone back on their vows and teachings.

 

The Jedi tricked Revan into believe she/he was a simple person in the universe, then used her/him to find the Star Forge. Uh...that doesn't sound very Jedi-like to me.

 

The Sith have their own weird moments, too. Now we have to bring up the case of Revan. Yeah, I'm going there. Architect, if you don't like it, cover your eyes and sing songs because I'm going there.

 

Revan used her/his powers for "good" in order to try and save the Republic, if that's what you believe. He/she fell to the dark side to try and save the Republic by strengthening his/her empire through a military dictatorship of some sorts. She/he assassinated key political persons and made sure not to cause mass destruction that would upset the balance of her/his empire. Unlike Malak and some after her/him, Revan sought to cause balance, not utter chaos and destruction. So, if you believe that Revan fell out of necessity or whatever, then you can use this example. If not, ah...go find your own.

 

So, it's not your words that dictate you, but your behavior and your actions. The Dark and the Light side are just two dogmas of the Force and are extremes. I guess this is where Grey Jedi come in. They are sort of medians between the two extremes and have their own code that you can go ahead and read on wikipedia if you want.

 

There is no Dark Side. There is no Light Side. It is only your actions and your motives that dictate if you're good or evil, lawful or chaotic.

 

But then again...Force Lightning is so cool...

[SilentScope001]

The Dark Side is evil because...George Lucas says so.

 

edit: Seriously, that's it. Even when you talk to the Sith tw'ilek appericnate in the Sith Academcy in K1, you learn that even some members of the Sith doesn't consider themselves as evil. "If you define evil as helping yourself, of getting what is rightfully yours, then yes, we are evil." This quote shows that she believes that the definition of evil is twisted by the Jedi, but the true definition of evil is what stops people from reaching their potential.

 

Who truly cares? Before the Jedi and the Sith, nobody knew what was LS and what was DS (according to Kreia). Studying the life of the people BEFORE they were force-users...that may be interesting.

Edited March 18, 2007 by SilentScope001

[seejai]

the dark side is just an illusion the jedi created to keep their subjects under their tighter rule. The force is a power source, you either control it, or let it control you. The sith take the force and bend it to their will. i think their is absolutely nothing wrong with "the dark side" of the force. GO SITH!!!!!!

 

then why do u play lightside games all the time? oh well. mara jade never completely fell to the dark side

i really made those posts contradict bc i thought i was on my account

[hawk]

Yeah, working for the bad guys could be considered Evil but do some really have a choice. Are the clone troopers evil in ROTS because they had to kill Jedi?

 

No, they had no choice.

[Omelette]

Yeah, working for the bad guys could be considered Evil but do some really have a choice. Are the clone troopers evil in ROTS because they had to kill Jedi?

 

No, they had no choice.

 

So they would not be considered "evil". They were programmed to be dumbed down, so to speak, and take orders without question, which was a pity for them. And even if they had been smart enough to make a conscious decision, fear of the Emperor and what he would do to them would have taken hold and it would have altered their decisions, making them do something that they probably, as more moral people wouldn't (depending on your take on morality), didn't want to.

 

That's why views on good and evil really depend on situational ethics more so than moral ethics.

[Watchman]

the dark side is just an illusion the jedi created to keep their subjects under their tighter rule. The force is a power source, you either control it, or let it control you. The sith take the force and bend it to their will. i think their is absolutely nothing wrong with "the dark side" of the force. GO SITH!!!!!!

 

Haha! We have a darkside lover in the house!

 

You will find the there is always a destruction in any creation. Darkside powers are lightside powers. And lightside powers are darkside too. Don't forget that you have to create lightning to use it. The difference is what you use them for. Lightside tries to leave something better that what it found. Darkside leaves less of anything it comes across. Mass destruction on the part of the Jedi is not unheard of. It is just that when they did it, they were destroying something they thought would leave the universe better than they found it, like stopping a dictator and his armies.

 

The most powerful side there is, is the gray side. Because can be the master of both worlds.

[Shagrano]

the dark side is just an illusion the jedi created to keep their subjects under their tighter rule. The force is a power source, you either control it, or let it control you. The sith take the force and bend it to their will. i think their is absolutely nothing wrong with "the dark side" of the force. GO SITH!!!!!!

 

Haha! We have a darkside lover in the house!

 

You will find the there is always a destruction in any creation. Darkside powers are lightside powers. And lightside powers are darkside too. Don't forget that you have to create lightning to use it. The difference is what you use them for. Lightside tries to leave something better that what it found. Darkside leaves less of anything it comes across. Mass destruction on the part of the Jedi is not unheard of. It is just that when they did it, they were destroying something they thought would leave the universe better than they found it, like stopping a dictator and his armies.

 

The most powerful side there is, is the gray side. Because can be the master of both worlds.

 

The gray side??

The Dark side rules them all,forever and ever!!!

Edited March 19, 2007 by Shagrano

[Darth Alexa Kun]

A Jedi falls to the dark side as soon as he/she realizes that being a Jedi is not such an enjoyable task after all. All rage!! :D

[Kyp Torvyn]

I am a philosophical person. I could and sometime will put an official response to why the Dark Side is no better or worse than the Light Side, but for now, I will say. Dark side fun, Jedi boring. The answer is simple people. Fun doesn't equal evil.

[Shagrano]

I am a philosophical person. I could and sometime will put an official response to why the Dark Side is no better or worse than the Light Side, but for now, I will say. Dark side fun, Jedi boring. The answer is simple people. Fun doesn't equal evil.

 

Evil equals to Fun all the time!!

Just think about the fun of slaughtering an entire mass of civilians,whitch wont obey you...or something How fun,AND great would'nt that be?!!!

[Xard]

That would mean you are sick and twisted person who should be put in mental hospital and leave you there

[Barzarel]

Well both things need to exist for any order to co exist.

 

We can survive without being hardened at times otherwise our sense and means for purpose goes numb, and what is good or evil?

 

Take this for example:

 

A human is hungry he finds a deer seeing it wounded and figuring it has not much chance for survival he chooses to eat it.

 

Another human find a wounded deer but even in his dire hunger he decides to help it takes it with him mends it everyday getting more attached to it, till finally it is well and his consiscense tells he cant deny it freedom and decide even as attached as he is to it, to give it back freedom and lets it loose.

 

The animal has grown accustomed to peaceful sorrounding living secure without hardship and it runs off and falls at the hands on a wolf without its gaurds open to danger.

 

Now really is there any difference between over caring or not?

 

I dont think anything can be deemed more evil or good than the other, nature is both harshness and beauty both are part of the world if or not we choose to see it.

Edited March 22, 2007 by Barzarel