KotOR2 confirmed at 1Up.com

[Wolfsburg]

i also like that idea. i mean in star wars there are some things that always happen like father/son and master/padawan settings. i also think there is always alot of beytral or close to it. the idea of killing malak and then having revan as the villian in kotor2 is a really good idea. if obsidian isn't doing that, then i am sure that they have something cool up their sleeves, but that idea does sound good.

[Synaesthesia]

Yeah, that's the problem with a direct sequel, there's no way to realistically start the game without making your character weaker.

In order to get around this, I think the PC should start the game with broken legs.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I think this depends. If it was thought that there would be a sequel, certain things in a prequel could be tailored to that. Knowing that beforehand, you can adjust the game better. If you have say, a game divided into 3 parts, then you can't make the first or the second games have the character reach incredible power levels, gather ph4t l3wt, and all that.

 

If Arcanum had a sequel using the main character its power levels would have to be severely lowered to allow for balance. But if ToEE had a sequel it would work better. BG managed to pull off some measure of balance from BG1 to BG2 and into ToB (despite really being monty haul for the later half of BG2 and the full length of ToB).

[Tigranes]

bg had lots of complaints for being uber munchkin in second half of soa and tob, but it had worked because they planned beforehand, and D&D allowed this. rather, AD&D.

 

now, if its like final fantasy or something... level 163? no way. the reason bg made it work, the reason D&D can support sequels, is that after spending hours to get to level 5 or so, there are lots of levels of spells you still can't memorise at all.

[Darque]

Persactly.

 

AD&D was made for a long haul kind of game, the kind of thing few systems really can emulate. I've yet to see it in anything console.

 

Of course... you have essentially 5 revisions to get it right

 

Chainmail... DnD (the first)... ADnD... ADnD 2nd Edition... and D20DnD

 

As the original SSI dnd games proved, this system is keenly made to support such vast gaming.

[Tigranes]

There's also the fact that it takes you a *while* to get up a level. (final fantasy eiiiiight..... ever gone up multiple levels for three people in one battle?)

[Darque]

Yup and yup

 

In that order, thank you very much

 

DnD was made to let you "enjoy" your progression. I'm not sure I've ever played a console game where I actually looked at my character at each level to see how they were doing...

 

In consoles you level so fast you're more or less grinding at a find-shoot-loot pace.

[Judge Hades]

I hate that type of games.

[kefka]

What are "levels" anyway? Just a guide as to how strong you are, that's all. If you increase 3 levels during a battle then you know you've done well, and since levels are different from game to game, level 50 in Final Fantasy is like 20 in Kotor. It's all relative.

 

I'd prefer it if you had no levels, just one big pool of experience, and you improve your character from that. Can anyone tell the difference between lvl 19 and 20? Not really. Maybe a single feat and a few extra hit points. Big deal. Just give me the skills and feats and forget the levels.

[Pawe]

True. George Lucas just doesn't have the balls to have the bad guys truly win once and a while.

Yep. But hey, just imagine all those flame postings etc. on SW boardsand almost everywhere if bad guys win... C'mon, it SW universe where Good/Light always wins the Bad/Dark. Episode 7 would be kinda cool if Empire would TOTALLY rule the galaxy... You know.. real fascism etc. :D

[FrankK]

Yep. But hey, just imagine all those flame postings etc. on SW boardsand almost everywhere if bad guys win... C'mon, it SW universe where Good/Light always wins the Bad/Dark. Episode 7 would be kinda cool if Empire would TOTALLY rule the galaxy... You know.. real fascism etc. :D

This is one of the things the GAMES have done right.

 

I think Bioware did an exceptional job of showing what being a Sith is truly about--in a sick sort of way I found myself going, "You know, I can almost see how what they believe could work...". They actually presented the philosophy of the Sith in easily digestable terms.

[Darque]

They also showed quite well why it "didn't" work

 

This kill to stay on top thing is a great way to keep yourself strong, but your faction weak.

[Xiw]

"I think Bioware did an exceptional job of showing what being a Sith is truly about--in a sick sort of way I found myself going, "You know, I can almost see how what they believe could work...". They actually presented the philosophy of the Sith in easily digestable terms.

 

That's right Frank. Now just keep walking down the path. Don't look at you feet, just keep your eyes on the big pile of power and glory at the end of the road. Everything is gonna be OK.

[kefka]

The Sith Masters on Korriban are my favorite characters in KotOR - very charismatic and were far more convincing than the stuck-up Jedi council. If only you could join the Sith instead of those do-gooders. *sigh*. More characters like Uthar Wynn and Yuthura Ban, please.

[Tigranes]

DnD was made to let you "enjoy" your progression. I'm not sure I've ever played a console game where I actually looked at my character at each level to see how they were doing...

 

*grins* the first time i played a ff game, i looked after levelling up each time. then i found that none of the insanely numerous values actually really meant anything, except "X gets more uber".

 

Ah, kefka, there is a difference. At level 99 of a final fantasy game, you've got spells of mass destruction, innumerable immunities, and basically maxed out the limits of that particular RPG character system. In D&D, you haven't done that yet; so think of FF's level 99 as.... TOB level 50. There's just nowhere else to go because you can't make magic or build golems or whatever. Every system has its limits. D&D just makes you take a looooong time to get there.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

DnD was made to let you "enjoy" your progression. I'm not sure I've ever played a console game where I actually looked at my character at each level to see how they were doing...

 

*grins* the first time i played a ff game, i looked after levelling up each time. then i found that none of the insanely numerous values actually really meant anything, except "X gets more uber".

 

Ah, kefka, there is a difference. At level 99 of a final fantasy game, you've got spells of mass destruction, innumerable immunities, and basically maxed out the limits of that particular RPG character system. In D&D, you haven't done that yet; so think of FF's level 99 as.... TOB level 50. There's just nowhere else to go because you can't make magic or build golems or whatever. Every system has its limits. D&D just makes you take a looooong time to get there.

The real difference is that in D&D , or any known system for that matter you have a benchmark of progress.

 

 

Also because D&D was never really intended to go to those levels you end up with a lot of stuff tagged on. Having never gotten to level 99 in any of the FF games I cant really say how effective it is. But as its possible to finish the games in the mid 50's and lower one would assume its merely a matter of scaling damage and abilities.

[MrBrown]

After FFIV, FF games seem to have started being more about the skill/magic system rather than the levelling up. Both in what matters more and what the player can affect more.

 

Jobs in FFV, the Espers (or whatever they were) in FFVI, Materia in FFVII, etc.

 

This attitude seems to have spread into other JRPGs as well. Personally, I'd prefer all the stuff would work relatively in the same manner / using similar math, but that's just me. Not like western RPGs do that always either.

[Judge Hades]

My only concern is if they are going to use an established rules system use it entirely. ToEE, if not for anything else, has shown us how much of the d20 System can be put into a computer game. All it needs was a story to make it worth it. If they can't or will not do so then they might as well make their own system. Frankly I prefer original rules systems on the PC than trying to convert established PnP rules sets.

[Karzak]

I still haven't finished KotOR, it just isn't a gripping game if you don't like console clones.

[Land of Er]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and 1000 times wrong.

 

V - Job System

VI - Esper System

VII - Materia System

VIII - Junction System

XI - Skills system

X - Sphere Grid

X-2 - Job System (dress sphere)

 

So basically the system changed every single game from V upwards. X and X-2 even though they share the same world use a totally different rules system.

 

Which kind of shoots your theory out of the water given the success of the FF franchise dosnt it.If there is any lesson to be learned here its dont paint your franchise into a corner that it cant escape from. We saw that with FO.

First of all... there is no FF VIII. They mislabeled the packaging for Squall's Adventures.

 

Second the case in point was the COMBAT system. NOT the level up system. ATB (active time battle) has been the combat system in the final fantasy series ALMOST throughout. X is an exception as are a few of the very early FFs.

 

Third... the Esper system from VI and the skill system from XI are the same. They just use different items.

 

Fourth... if you are going to convert a PnP system to a CRPG you need to bear in mind why things like skills are there in the first place.

 

BALANCE

 

Otherwise there is no motivation for a character to be anything but combat oriented.

 

Skills=Replay When you can't do everything the first time through you have a reason to play again. Fallout anyone?

 

Also tighter adherence to the D20 rules would have given non Jedi characters greater playability. :ph34r:

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Second the case in point was the COMBAT system. NOT the level up system. ATB (active time battle) has been the combat system in the final fantasy series ALMOST throughout. X is an exception as are a few of the very early FFs.

 

Third... the Esper system from VI and the skill system from XI are the same. They just use different items.

 

Fourth... if you are going to convert a PnP system to a CRPG you need to bear in mind why things like skills are there in the first place.

 

BALANCE

 

Otherwise there is no motivation for a character to be anything but combat oriented.

 

Skills=Replay When you can't do everything the first time through you have a reason to play again. Fallout anyone?

 

Also tighter adherence to the D20 rules would have given non Jedi characters greater playability. :ph34r:

The equivelent of ATB would be Biowares pause and play. So it really dosnt matter what rules they use as long as they keep the same pause and play system.

[AlanC9]

Skills=Replay When you can't do everything the first time through you have a reason to play again. Fallout anyone?

 

Also tighter adherence to the D20 rules would have given non Jedi characters greater playability. :ph34r:

That's assuming the developer cares about replayability. It's not obvious why they should. They can't charge any more money for the game, and it just means you have less time to play other games.

 

By tighter adherence to D20 rules, you mean the nerfed blasters, right? I agree. Though since KotOR made you go Jedi, favoring Jedi wasn't such a bad thing.

[YOYORT]

KOTOR 2 as an article, arg waiting feels like I am being dragged a mile a day in nothing but thumb tacks, waiting listening for any slip up in announcements by obsidian, bioware or even lucas art AHH im going insane waiting lol

[Judge Hades]

Then don't wait. Play something else in the mean time.

[Volourn]

OMG Hades actually makes sense!