Llyranor Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 PC Gamer UK (a gaming magazine I actually *like* to some extent) has the latest review, with a final numerical score of 93%. In summary, Oblivion is: 1) Narcotically addictive 2) (Gasp!) Emergent 3) Brutal It's not: 1) An AI revolution 2) A grind 3) Perfectly polished. From reading the review, it actually sounds promising. The reviewing actually manages to make the questing sound intriguing, instead of just downright nauseating (though that may possibly be the writing incompetence of other fanperson previewers). The low 90% instead of high 90% is due mostly to NPC-NPC conversation, which is apparently horrible. Here's a short excerpt: Sadly, the illusion is shattered when they try to speak to each other - the AI controlling who they speak to and what they say is terrible, and Oblivion's only real problem. Never mind that casual conversations are hilariously forced exchanges such as:"I hear Errandil is good with a lockpick." "I heard he's good with locks." "That's what I heard." "Good day." The bigger problem is that characters don't know whether they're meeting someone for the first time or have just finished talking to them, whether the two people next to them are having the exact same conversation, or how many times the player has heard the exact exchange they're about to have. You'll even hear the same lines in different voices, making it impossible to pretend they're anything other than actors reading a script. It's a particular shame because the scripted one-off conversations relating to quests are excellently written, and together with the daily schedules would have given Oblivion's inhabitants plenty of life." This, of course, isn't a surprise at all, if you've ever seen footage of the game. The NPC conversations have sounded consistently bad in those. On the other hand, there hasn't been much revealed in terms of writing as it pertains to actual story/quests in those clips, so maybe we could end up being pleasantly surprised. Depending on how good 'excellently written' turns out to be, this might even potentially be a game worth considering. If, of course, the quality is enough to make me overlook the forementioned horror. Blatant mockery turns into cautious skepticism. We shall see. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Kalfear Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Or the low 90s reveiw could just be because Betha didnt pay the stanard rate for a high 90% review! Seriously people, dont trust mags for reviews, its all bought and paid for. Would think people knew this by now! Kalfear Disco and Dragons Avatar Enlarged
Tigranes Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I liked the review, and I'm anticipating the game, but the little story-snippets about quests are rather deceptive. The first one is lauded as some masterpiece in deception, but such "twists" (gasp! he's NOT actually the bad guy) are present, and should be present, in every RPG worth its nuts. And a couple of others simply boiled down to kill kill kill too. The Steal The Muffin segment is something that I've done in many other games, including BG. It seems that the point for excitement is the possibilities for the player to interact with the game system using its many possibilities (walk on water), not rely on mediocre dialogue and writing - it's not bad, but it should be recognised for what it is. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Oerwinde Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) most importantly... did they fix the crappy combat and boring gameplay? I can't rely on reviews for that info unfortunately... since most reviewers actually liked Morrowind. Edited March 13, 2006 by Oerwinde The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.
Tigranes Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Well, facts: 1/ You can still run back as fast as enemies move towards you, so the combat strikes me as "static" as Morrowind's - it's not really designed for moving around, but standing toe to toe with an enemy and slicing. Or using the hit-jump back exploit. 2/ My point previously is made here - quests and dialogue are still mediocre, if slightly better, and the focus is still on exploration / sandbox. I think the only places where you could find something that treads 'new' ground (for TES, that is) is the Stealth system and Radiant AI. And that's two things you really have to *play* to see. Not much help, is it? Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Dhruin Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Or the low 90s reveiw could just be because Betha didnt pay the stanard rate for a high 90% review! Seriously people, dont trust mags for reviews, its all bought and paid for. Would think people knew this by now! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know this magazine and you'd be naive to think it never happens...but it doesn't happen as often as you might think. Most scores fall into line with aggregation systems like Gamerankings and those that don't are usually just different opinions - or perhaps a stuffup. Have you ever spoken to mag writers and editors? Anyway, what does the "brutal" refer to? Game difficulty?
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Didnt Morrowind get similiar scores ? Brutal might refer to the difficulty, or it could refer to the combat. Considering the big deal they were making about the AI it not being an AI revolution is pretty negative. And having seen it in motion just before the 360 launch. Not perfectly polished dosnt exactly fill me with confidence either. Probably get it eventually, but can't say I'm exited about it. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
Meshugger Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 Seems Oblivion has taken the same path as Morrowind: Tried much, failed in some key-points, but still manages to succeed in others. Bethesda has done another game that people will Love/Hate. Since i never fancied Morrowind, i doubt that i'll fancy Oblivion. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Slowtrain Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I'm already wetting myself with excitement! :cool: Too bad I probably won't be able to run it very well. AH well, I'll give it a try and see how it goes. If it doesn't run I'll put in on the shelf until I have a better pc. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Kaftan Barlast Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I hope there will be a reasonably functional demo as I wont be able to badmouth Bethesda without actually knowing for sure if Oblivion is as bad as Morrowind. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Llyranor Posted March 13, 2006 Author Posted March 13, 2006 I still will most probably not end up playing the game, because the lack of proper PC-NPC conversation (half-wiki is still part-wiki, after all, and not very acceptable to me). As I said, though, it'd be interesting to see how 'well-written' it actually turns out to be. Even if Oblivion itself ends up not worth getting, future titles potentially might, if Oblivion *does* turn out to be a major improvement in the right direction. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Lare Kikkeli Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 i'll be getting this when it comes out, just to see the new ai. should be fun playing an assasin...
LoneWolf16 Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I'm going with an Argonian or Khajiit spearmen/stealth-oriented character. And yes, I can hardly wait 8 more days for this. I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast
Lyric Suite Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 most reviewers actually liked Morrowind. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which pretty much makes reviews irrilevant.
Shadowstrider Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 It's not:1) An AI revolution 2) A grind 3) Perfectly polished. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1) I wish I could comment about. 2) Definetely not. 3) Just a second, before anyone gets the wrong impression here. In a game that is the scope and scale of Oblivion, there are bound to be bugs. Lots of bugs. In TINY games, there will always be bugs. Comments like this leave the impression that Oblivion is riddled with bugs and show-stoppers. This is entirely untrue. Just a stray fact to consider before purchasing: Oblivion made it through Microsoft certification in its first pass.
Ellester Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 I have to buy Oblivion. Even if it turns out great for the first 20 hours, but then gets boring and repetitive like Morrowind did. Morrowind was close to being a very good game, but it fell short in many areas. I just have to see if Oblivion improved on Morrowind, if they did then maybe it will be a very good game. I think it Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Berserk Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) I'm going with an Argonian or Khajiit spearmen/stealth-oriented character. And yes, I can hardly wait 8 more days for this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are no spears in Oblivion so you'll have to change that a bit. I have to say that I find it a bit humorous that the Tamriel Empire, just as the Roman empire in the real world, prided itself for it's light infantery who were trained in the art of the sword and the SPEAR doesn't have one of their most important weapons anymore. I'm not too happy about the generic fantasy feeling I've gotten from Oblivions artwork but I guess that I got spoiled by Morrowind atmosphere that actually managed to convey a truly "alien" feeling. EDIT: Aside from the disappointment that I won't be able to make my Dragoon, I just hope that Oblivion isn't half as crash happy as Morrowind was before 2 or 3 patches later. Edited March 13, 2006 by Berserk
astr0creep Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 It's not:1) An AI revolution 2) A grind 3) Perfectly polished. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1) I wish I could comment about. 2) Definetely not. 3) Just a second, before anyone gets the wrong impression here. In a game that is the scope and scale of Oblivion, there are bound to be bugs. Lots of bugs. In TINY games, there will always be bugs. Comments like this leave the impression that Oblivion is riddled with bugs and show-stoppers. This is entirely untrue. Just a stray fact to consider before purchasing: Oblivion made it through Microsoft certification in its first pass. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is an amazing feat(first pass certification) or a big fat bribe(a lesson from LA?) :D http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/
Shadowstrider Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 It is an amazing feat; a tribute to the QA and programming departments here at Bethesda.
astr0creep Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 It is an amazing feat; a tribute to the QA and programming departments here at Bethesda. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/
Gromnir Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 wait & see it don't hurt us at all to wait until after the first patch is released before we purchase. by then we gets a pretty good notion of quality of game, and if we does decide to purchase we gets a much more stable app. our biggest concern: crappy writing. fom the tiny bits we has seen/heard, oblivion writing is just as bad as morrowind writings. however, is unfair for us to judge based on the small 'mounts we has seen. even so, what little we has witnessed is 'nuff to make us concerned. *shrug* we make it a point not to buy any game on day 1. you is asking for trouble in so doing. wait for a week or two and get feedbacks from the guniea pigs w/o no impulse control.... watch and sees if they gets electrocuted or gets a food pellet before you commit. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Hurlshort Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 AI intelligence is very problematic, especially with a game as large as Oblivion is supposed to be. I think I read the Gothic III is trying to create a system where the gameworld is constantly updating your progress, so NPC's know if they've talked to you, if you've had an impact on them, etc.
Shadowstrider Posted March 13, 2006 Posted March 13, 2006 AI intelligence is very problematic, especially with a game as large as Oblivion is supposed to be. I think I read the Gothic III is trying to create a system where the gameworld is constantly updating your progress, so NPC's know if they've talked to you, if you've had an impact on them, etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HYPE! RPGs have pretty much always tracked this.
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