Darth Jebus Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 I know this might be totally cheesy and a little long-winded, but bear with me for a second. I just wanted to say, in light of all the shortcomings of K2, I think we need to let the guys at OE know that we still support them and that we know they'll do a better job next time around. Not that they did a terrible job with K2. But I'm only saying this because as a startup company, I always had the feeling that they were rushed into meeting a deadline and getting the product out as fast as possible by LA. I've said again and again that the more I looked at K2, the more I pointed the finger to LucasArts. I guess this is all in light of the recent Resident Cynic article over at Gamespy that really hit the nail on the head. Gamespy basically said that LA has a notorious track record of giving developers unrealistic schedules and trying soak up every last cent of coin out of the Star Wars license that they can. Quality be damned. Gamespy also said that the reason K1 didn't suffer from the same pitfalls that felled K2 was because BioWare was too large, too established, and too concerned about their exellent reputation to allow themselves to be bullied by LA. Startup companies don't have the same luxury. But they did say the same thing most everyone here has been saying: that OE is made up of many of the same people that brought us some of the greatest titles in RPG history, and that there is no way they would put out a product as unfinished as K2 were it not for the big, bad publisher looking over their shoulder, pressuring them to get it out for Christmas. At least that's what I've been saying all along. I may not be a seasoned RPGer, and I don't know the first thing about the vidgame industry, but it just seemed strange to me that that the folks that developed the likes of PST, Fallout, and Icewind Dale, among others, could just drop the ball so bad with the ending to K2 and all of the glitches. I've always said it had to of been LA. That being said, I know the devs, like all developers I'm sure, are well aware of the flaws of K2 and just because they are not posting on these boards doesn't mean they don't know of them or they don't hear us. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they're probably more pissed than most of us are, because it's their reputations and careers on the line. These guys and gals are professionals and perfectionists. You don't think seeing their product riddled with technical flaws and storyline holes doesn't grate on their nerves? We just play the damn games. They have to live them, so to speak. So, all I'm trying to say in this aimless ramble of mine, is that with good constructive feedback (not just, THIS GAME SUCKS. I HOPE YOU GUYS DON'T DO ANYTHING ELSE) I'm sure the devs will take note of it and maybe even implement some ideas for a possible K3. I read in another thread that someone said that there was a Swedish developer that was in a similar situation to OE, but their fans supported them and the devs listened to constructive feedback, and so as a result, two years after their game was released, they're still issuing patches to correct problems. I think it's just important to note that OE is a fledgeling company and that many of the issues that cropped in this game were due to them being rushed and bullied by LA. Not because they don't care about their product. Look at the stuff they've done in the past. K, I'm done. This prolly belongs in the way off-topic fora, btw.
Jad'en Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 /love Obsidian Your right Darth Jebus, but you have to admit half of the people that come here are just people that havent taken the time to analyse their problems.
Volourn Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 "but it just seemed strange to me that that the folks that developed the likes of PST, Fallout, and Icewind Dale, among others, could just drop the ball so bad with the ending to K2 and all of the glitches." A. Half of Obsidian weren't around for those games. B. They were also some of the people involved in the cancealltions of BG3, FO3, Torn, and more. C. They also wer einvolved with such drek as IWD2, SK, and DTU. I like Obsidian; but they are all grown ups. They don't need to be babysat. if there's soemthing in KOTOR2 I dislike I will state that fact. If there's soemthing in KOTOR2 I like; I will state that fact. No mercy when it comes to spending my $50+. "I think it's just important to note that OE is a fledgeling company and that many of the issues that cropped in this game were due to them being rushed and bullied by LA." I doubt LA forced them into using the lame random loot gernerator, or the super easy combat; or many other things in the game. It's wayyy to easy to blame all the bad stuff on the Big Bad Evil Publisher. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
NeverwinterKnight Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 good job, obsidian. and good luck chris avellone. heres hoping you beat paper mario. :D
Volourn Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 "and good luck chris avellone. heres hoping you beat paper mario." I haven't played any of those other games so KOTOR2 wins by default. <> DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
MattyJim Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 Well stated Jebus. I was previously unaware of the GameSpy article until I read it. I'm not quite halfway done with the game yet, but it is so engrossing, I'm getting a little nervous about how the ending is going to play out. I'm purposely avoiding the spoiler forum just in case I read anything that gives it away. In regards to the developers, I don't know how large Obsidian Entertainment is, but I think the overall product is still pretty impressive (save all the minor and semi-minor bugs). I really look forward to the patch from Obsidian and hope they are beginning to work on one. As a fellow software developer myself, I think it would be a bit arrogant to believe that the developers could fix all the major bugs in such a short span, but hopefully they can fix some of the major issues first (e.g. the Swoop Biker issue, the Video Card issues, etc.) to allow for better gameplay, and leave some of the minor problems (e.g. spelling, typos) a little lower on the priority list (or give those to an intern! :D ).
Bulgaroctonus Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 Yeah, I agree. For all the problems I had with the game, I still found it to be completely engrossing (until the end), and was completely taken in by the story. Though the new evidence regarding the cut ending leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth?
Darth Jebus Posted February 16, 2005 Author Posted February 16, 2005 "but it just seemed strange to me that that the folks that developed the likes of PST, Fallout, and Icewind Dale, among others, could just drop the ball so bad with the ending to K2 and all of the glitches." A. Half of Obsidian weren't around for those games. B. They were also some of the people involved in the cancealltions of BG3, FO3, Torn, and more. C. They also wer einvolved with such drek as IWD2, SK, and DTU. I like Obsidian; but they are all grown ups. They don't need to be babysat. if there's soemthing in KOTOR2 I dislike I will state that fact. If there's soemthing in KOTOR2 I like; I will state that fact. No mercy when it comes to spending my $50+. "I think it's just important to note that OE is a fledgeling company and that many of the issues that cropped in this game were due to them being rushed and bullied by LA." I doubt LA forced them into using the lame random loot gernerator, or the super easy combat; or many other things in the game. It's wayyy to easy to blame all the bad stuff on the Big Bad Evil Publisher. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're absolutely right about not blaming everything on the publisher. And I'm not trying to defend OE on anything or defend some of their lame ideas, such as the RLG, the lack of romances, or the combat system that made you seem like Jesus with a lightsaber. All I'm trying to say is that we have to keep some things in perspective, and that you can see the potential in this game when you play it. You can see what it could've been. Look, I was incredibly disappointed in K2. But I just think you can attribute most of the shortcomings towards an unrealistic schedule brought by a large publisher, coupled with a new startup company handling the sequel to one of the most critically and fan acclaimed RPGs of all time which carries one of the most lucrative licenses in the world. Oh, and it's their very first title. Not good bedfellows.
Volourn Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 "All I'm trying to say is that we have to keep some things in perspective, and that you can see the potential in this game when you play it. You can see what it could've been." True; but I don't judge games on potential. KOTOR2 is an ok/good game as it is. "Oh, and it's their very first title." It may be Obsidian's first game; but its not like the Obsidian bigwigs are rookies in the industry. They know what theya re doing, and I'd like to givew them credit for being intelligent as well. They knew what theyw ere getting into. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Adan Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 Well OE get my support, fantastic story ( best crpg story i have ever seen imo ), great game and the music score was simply brilliant. Thanks again
Aes Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 It is said you can recognize the greatest artists by the works they can create with limited means. My sincerest condolences, Obsidian. Both you and this game deserve the extra 3-6 months of development cycle to add in the unfinished scenes and polishing. Perhaps the sales figures of this game will help pesuade the publisher to grant them next time around.
Laozi Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 I've already supported them pretty well , by shelling out $50, I don't need to have their mothers come over and tell me to stop picking on them People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
superbo3 Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 yeah great game loved it only had the game crash 3 or so times during my intire play , thou i wish you would surport more then 999 save game slots i had to delete my save games at about the 35th game hour lol used about 15 gb i think in save games alone lol
LoneWolf16 Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 I'm liking the game so far...then again, I'm only 15 hours into it. The story telling has been great, and character development is, at worst, decent. I haven't become uber powerful yet, as I've thought I would be even this early, what with some of the posts on here being so adamant about that fact. Props to OE...aside from the few bugs I've encountered, and some odd crashes here and there, this is a pretty damn good game. I look forward to NWN 2. I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast
DSLuke Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 I supported Obsidian. I was one of the few games I actually bought. (very few to be excact). My previous buy was KOTOR. And by the light of the moon He prays for their beauty not doom
Kalfear Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 LOL, you people to funny! Why does it have to be a love or hate relationship???? I dont love Obsidian (and I stick up for them more then most). They made a good game that was fun to play. On my version I encountered very few bugs. End of story! When Obsidian makes anouther game ill see if it interests me, if it does ill buy it. If its buggy ill complain about ACTUAL REAL bugs only. If its as good as KotOR2, ill say its a great game. dont have to love or hate a company folks, its only a game after all Kalfear Disco and Dragons Avatar Enlarged
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 It's not Obsidian's fault. Its LucasArts' fault!!! They rushed the game.
213374U Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 It's not Obsidian's fault. Its LucasArts' fault!!! They rushed the game. No. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 It's not Obsidian's fault. Its LucasArts' fault!!! They rushed the game. No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes.
213374U Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 It's not Obsidian's fault. Its LucasArts' fault!!! They rushed the game. No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. Prove it. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 It's not Obsidian's fault. Its LucasArts' fault!!! They rushed the game. No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. Prove it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well... It's pretty obvious isn't it? LucasArts asked Obsidian to develop the game. They wanted the game ready for a certain date. Obsidian which is being PAID by LucasArts to develop the game doesn't have a say in the release date. All the official content that is released for the game goes through LucasArts. LucasArts chooses when to release the game. Obviously LucasArts atleast looked at the final product and they chose to release the game on February 8th 2005. If LucasArts wanted the bugs fixed, they would have delayed the release. Therefore, while Obsidian could have done a better job at debugging in the time it was alotted, LucasArts is mainly to blame. Mike Gallo did evaded questions in the interviews because he did not want to tell us the truth that : LucasArts released the game so that they could make some quick money and they knew about the bugs.
213374U Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Well... It's pretty obvious isn't it? LucasArts asked Obsidian to develop the game. They wanted the game ready for a certain date. Obsidian which is being PAID by LucasArts to develop the game doesn't have a say in the release date. All the official content that is released for the game goes through LucasArts. LucasArts chooses when to release the game. Obviously LucasArts atleast looked at the final product and they chose to release the game on February 8th 2005. If LucasArts wanted the bugs fixed, they would have delayed the release. Therefore, while Obsidian could have done a better job at debugging in the time it was alotted, LucasArts is mainly to blame. Mike Gallo did evaded questions in the interviews because he did not want to tell us the truth that : LucasArts released the game so that they could make some quick money and they knew about the bugs. That still doesn't account for the POOR game balance, uber lame random item generator, and other faults. The overly buggy state of the game may be to blame on LA, but that's about it. And I didn't run into any bugs, apart from a few freezes. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Naso Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 With the ending / better story line that evil dev didn't support thing, I would refer you to Homeworld 2, which has what seems like the skeleton of a very good story, but holes big enough to fly a large fleet, (i don't know, make your own pithy statement), through. There was much the same sort of controversy about that, with a previous version, titled "Dust Wars" that was scrapped, some concept art, and the general concensus that if only they hadn't been pushed they could have done that and it would have been wonderful. A year or two after release, maybe when a contract expired, I don't know, a dev posted on the relic forums I think that actually the bits of dialog they found in files was *ALL* that they had on the story line and various implementation problems plagued it, they couldn't make it work with their path-finding, and it was just a mess, and they started over *SUA SPONTE*. Perhaps it was just Lucas Arts rushing things. That certainly is plausible. Even if that had a hand in it though, you should think about this and not just blame any or every thing on LA. Only the devs and LA knows right now, but until we do, no one can be held any more or less accountable. (Yes, I haven't gotten it yet, so don't know how bad the ending is. Maybe tomorrow, I hope)
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