The All Things Political Topic - A conservative is someone who makes no changes and consults his grandmother when in doubt

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/29/icc-congress-netanyahu-israel-gaza

Heh, missed this.

Do you also  support the ICC, I do. 

Remember when Putin was issued with the warrant and it was immediately dismissed by many people with comments like " the ICC is a Western\US controlled and biased institution and it should be ignored " 

[Lexx]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Using drones is only a measure to be used when there is illegal and violent protests. It wont be necessary in any peaceful protest which  is what most  protests in the US are

Don't be naive. You'll add some undercover police into the crowd, let them throw some stones and now you can gas everyone. That's how it's going to play out.

"Illegal protests" is a funny wording too. Guess who decides what is a legal and illegal protest? Random example out of the wild: Do you think they saw occupy wallstreet as a legal protest?

Edited May 2 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

32 minutes ago, Lexx said:

Don't be naive. You'll add some undercover police into the crowd, let them throw some stones and now you can gas everyone. That's how it's going to play out.

Come on Lexx, lets be fair 

There are literally dozens of examples in the US where you see protests that arent violent or illegal or the police dont respond because a particular mayor doesnt want to escalate tension  so the police will ignore much of the  criminality

There have been numerous BLM protests, like the weeks of protests in Portland, where the police didn't intervene or try instigate violence so they can respond with  just arresting people 

Despite what you seem to think the US police arent some fascist organisation that takes orders from an authoritarian government. Its not how it works and you can see the obvious differences in police response in different states and in different cities 

And these drones are just another mechanism to ensure violent protests can be subdued and contained. Its just an additional tool, its not a bad thing 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

Don't be naive. You'll add some undercover police into the crowd, let them throw some stones and now you can gas everyone. That's how it's going to play out.

"Illegal protests" is a funny wording too. Guess who decides what is a legal and illegal protest? Random example out of the wild: Do you think they saw occupy wallstreet as a legal protest?

Its easy to understand what is an illegal or legal protest and this is  outside of criminal acts or violence being committed , it  depends on things like  where the protest is happening. You cant protest on private property and as far as I know certain Federal areas

But you can protest in public areas. But the campus encampments and protests were largely  on private sector University areas which is why much of the Universities protests  have moved outside the private areas to the streets 

So its not a selective definition because the University can allow protests on there grounds but they have every right to call in the police to end illegal encampments on there private sector areas 

Edited May 2 by BruceVC

[HoonDing]

So where were these clowns that look like they're off to Helms Deep during Drump's coup?

[Gorgon]

Biden's approval of his handling of the Gaza conflict among the 18-25 demographic is at 22% or thereabouts, which is completely terrible.

They won't forget being dismissed as antisemitic on little to no evidence, or that that they were dubbed "outside agitators" when this was not true.

They are absolutely going to hold a grudge against the Democratic party that Trump can exploit.  Trump is no different on Israel, he is even plausibly worse, but Trump is an enemy, he's not a friend who stabbed you in the back, that's always worse.

He tried to walk the tightrope by steadily walking up his critique of Israel, but it was so obviously dishonest that he managed to lose ground with both the pro Israelis and the pro Palestineans.  You can't be all things to all people.

 

Also, way to piss away the clout he got from pushing student debt relief. That should have been a huge winner for him with anyone in a similar situation.

[Zoraptor]

It's still Biden's best play politically since the votes he's losing from students getting beaten up and abetting Netanyahu* killing kids, medics, journalists and volunteers, bombing hospitals, blowing up hospitals, demolishing universities, using food and water as collective punishment and weapons of war may be lost votes for him but at least won't be gained votes for Trump. That makes them half the political value of pro Israelis since they would (potentially) vote Trump.

*probably Biden's biggest actual problem. The irony is that by giving unconditional support you've actually given away all your influence and told Bibi he can do whatever he likes. Hence the immense embarrassment of having ABlinken talking about how the current ceasefire offer is extraordinarily generous while you have Netanyahu saying he'll invade Rafah with or without it, deliberately undermining everything. Just makes Biden look incredibly weak and utterly spineless.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Gorgon said:

Biden's approval of his handling of the Gaza conflict among the 18-25 demographic is at 22% or thereabouts, which is completely terrible.

They won't forget being dismissed as antisemitic on little to no evidence, or that that they were dubbed "outside agitators" when this was not true.

They are absolutely going to hold a grudge against the Democratic party that Trump can exploit.  Trump is no different on Israel, he is even plausibly worse, but Trump is an enemy, he's not a friend who stabbed you in the back, that's always worse.

He tried to walk the tightrope by steadily walking up his critique of Israel, but it was so obviously dishonest that he managed to lose ground with both the pro Israelis and the pro Palestineans.  You can't be all things to all people.

 

Also, way to piss away the clout he got from pushing student debt relief. That should have been a huge winner for him with anyone in a similar situation.

Its interesting you raise " or that that they were dubbed "outside agitators" when this was not true"

Now that hundreds of arrests have been made that view  is demonstrably untrue

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/live-updates/college-protests-israel-palestine-war/nearly-half-of-columbia-university-and-ccny-arrests-were-nonstudent-protestors-109886454?id=109734946

" Nearly half of Columbia University and CCNY arrests were non-student protesters

Of the total arrests made at Columbia University and The City College of New York, many were affiliated with the university, though nearly half were identified as non-student protesters.

At Columbia University, there were 112 total arrests with 80 of the arrests being individuals affiliated with the institution while 32 individuals were unaffiliated.

The protests at CCNY saw 170 total arrests with 68 individuals arrested being affiliated with the public research university and 102 individuals being unaffiliated with the college"

So why does 50% of the total numbers of people  arrested  not being students  just  at 2 universities matter? 

Two main reasons, the first one being that the allegation of outside agitation is true and the second one is it undermines completely the view that says " these protests are about well-meaning students who have an understandable concern about where there universities spend there campus endowments " 

I do think most of the students have a well-meaning and genuine  belief they doing  the right thing even if the demands are unrealistic and unachievable 

But you cant deny that there is a  real element of protestors who have hijacked the protests for there own radical left agendas 

 

 

 

Edited May 3 by BruceVC

[Gorgon]

There is a lot going on at the same time at different sites but ;

What's radical about demanding that a university divest from the arms industry, or that it publish a list of it's potential conflicts of interests.

the same should be true of investments with a connection to slave labor, or  fundamentally undemocratic ones.  The protestors, well at least 50% of them, are paying customers.

Institutions of higher learning are supposed to be committed to democratic ideals, there is a long history that at least. Without an ethics clause attached to their investments, the rot and corruption will set in, as we have seen evidence of already. 

 

[BruceVC]

42 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

There is a lot going on at the same time at different sites but ;

What's radical about demanding that a university divest from the arms industry, or that it publish a list of it's potential conflicts of interests.

the same should be true of investments with a connection to slave labor, or  fundamentally undemocratic ones.  The protestors, well at least 50% of them, are paying customers.

Institutions of higher learning are supposed to be committed to democratic ideals, there is a long history that at least. Without an ethics clause attached to their investments, the rot and corruption will set in, as we have seen evidence of already. 

 

You asking an important and relevant question and that is "  whats   radical about demanding that a university divest from the arms industry "

Thats not radical at all and its reasonable. But thats not what the protestors are asking

They asking for the Universities to divest from all companies that do business with Israel and a boycott of these companies if these companies continue to do business with Israel or have an Israeli footprint. Its similar to South Africa Apartheid sanctions which were reasonable, understandable  and effective 

But if you think how impractical the students  demands really are, just take IT companies that include Microsoft, Amazon, FB or Twitter. The Universities and the students themselves arent going to boycott these products so whats the point of asking for a generalized boycott and divest of all companies?

But if they were specific about weapons companies that would be a different story because the Universities can do this 

 

 

 

 

[Gorgon]

Well, Israel is engaging in war crimes in its war with Hamas according to basically everyone without a vested interest. It is already illegal to invest in Russia  for the same reason. Israel gets a pass because the security cooperation and financial ties between it and the US as well as the unfathomable amount of influence it holds in internal US politics.

European leaders back Biden's play because of the hundreds of billions of dollars of aid for Ukraine, and because if they don't, they will be dealing with Trump for the next four years. These relations are all transactional, none of them are ethical.

If the international criminal court means anything, it will have to issue arrest warrants on both Hamas and senior Israeli leaders, given the facts.

With all this, it is entirely appropriate and moral to attempt to undermine the US-Israeli relationship, or at least to say that they don't want their university to have a stake in the continuation of violations against human rights.

 

 

 

[ShadySands]

Take your radical leftist agenda elsewhere, buddy. We're trying to kick off Armageddon over here.

[Bartimaeus]

New York Times: RFK Jr. says "[parasitic worm] ate part of his brain".

 

Edited May 8 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

South Africa is having its national election on 29 May and we in full season of populist and utterly unrealistic campaign promises from numerous political parties that are ubiquitous with the " silly season " reality in any Democracy with different political parties

The party I vote for, the DA, released this campaign video of the " South African flag burning " and it received the expected immediate criticism around "racism, treason " and " abhorrent and unpatriotic " comments from the ANC and other political parties

The ANC even going as far to say " Sport, Arts and Culture Minister, Zizi Kodwa, is considering taking further steps against the Democratic Alliance over the party's ad depicting the South African flag burning"

https://www.enca.com/top-stories/mi...action-against-da-after-flag-burning-campaign 

Here is the actual advert and its clear most people who are " outraged " haven't watched it or havent bothered to understand its political message

In summary the advert

• doesnt show an actual physical flag being burnt, its a digital AI piece of paper and the " flag" gets restored
• its a political metaphor about the state of the country under a coalition of the ANC and other parties like the EFF

But watch this video and tell me if you think its "treasonous " and legal action needs to be taken against the DA 

 

 

[Gorth]

28 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But watch this video and tell me if you think its "treasonous " and legal action needs to be taken against the DA

Honestly? All I see is a political ad so typical it could almost be invisible because there is nothing distinguishing it from any other the last 50000 political ads. It's all about what they don't want, not a single word about what they can do, that would benefit the people of SA?

I.e. the only change offered it's us instead of them?

 

Disclaimer, I know nothing about the party, their ideology or otherwise, just going by the ad

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Honestly? All I see is a political ad so typical it could almost be invisible because there is nothing distinguishing it from any other the last 50000 political ads. It's all about what they don't want, not a single word about what they can do, that would benefit the people of SA?

I.e. the only change offered it's us instead of them?

 

Disclaimer, I know nothing about the party, their ideology or otherwise, just going by the ad

Yes thats all true

It doesnt explain much but its not suppose to because they only had 30 seconds. Its not about the policies of the DA 

Its just another example of a sensationalized political advert but the point is really the overreaction to this advert from ANC which is also a political response 

Its been in the news the last 2-3 days and some  people are literally " outraged " because they think its treasonous and racist 

Like I mentioned with the ANC grandstanding about taking legal steps because of the flag burning 

But a flag wasnt burned. Its just a political advert 

 

 

[Malcador]

The reaction to Israel not getting a couple of shipments of JDAMs is getting hilarious.  You'd think without those bombs, the IDF will be annihilated by Hamas.

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Malcador said:

The reaction to Israel not getting a couple of shipments of JDAMs is getting hilarious.  You'd think without those bombs, the IDF will be annihilated by Hamas.

Yes it is lots of  unnecessary drama and outrage  and Biden is right 

The US cant provide the same support to Israel for the Rafah military campaign without a proper humanitarian plan for the Palestinian  civilians

And despite discussion around this Israel has not provided a satisfactory plan for this so the US must do something like suspending this type of military aid, I dont know how much of difference it will make but its symbolically important 

[Malcador]

When the IDF piles up dead civilians, at least they have the out of saying they had to use inaccurate weapons because the US was mean. 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

When the IDF piles up dead civilians, at least they have the out of saying they had to use inaccurate weapons because the US was mean. 

Malc you being cynical again,  remember you said you werent going to be as cynical 

[Malcador]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg6761ggxz1o

Slovak PM survived assassination attempt it seems

[Mamoulian War]

An assassination on our pro-russian Prime minister has been performed. People are talking about Karma biting him back, as he was during the last 4 year doing his best to divide the people here and demonized journalists, liberals, LGBT communities, progresives, immigrants, intelectuals, etc... It is said, he was shot 4 times in chest and stomach. He is currently being hospitalized in one of the hospitals, which has been "robbed" out of Euro funds by his party people and friends.

The shooter was 71-year old man. A primary target audience of his party.

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

An assassination on our pro-russian Prime minister has been performed. People are talking about Karma biting him back, as he was during the last 4 year doing his best to divide the people here and demonized journalists, liberals, LGBT communities, progresives, immigrants, intelectuals, etc... It is said, he was shot 4 times in chest and stomach. He is currently being hospitalized in one of the hospitals, which has been "robbed" out of Euro funds by his party people and friends.

The shooter was 71-year old man. A primary target audience of his party.

Do we know the reason for the assassination? Is the shooter  a nutjob or it political and if its political what is the political reason because it could be lots of things 

Keep us updated 

[Mamoulian War]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Do we know the reason for the assassination? Is the shooter  a nutjob or it political and if its political what is the political reason because it could be lots of things 

Keep us updated 

He was a writer. Nothing else is known so far. No nutjob for sure. More like absolute frustration. Smer has destroyed lives of many people. I was expecting to see something like this sooner or later, with the rhetorics of his political party, and with them ruining a lot of people in the past, especially in the construction sector. I am just absolutely surprised, that the guy decided to go so high in the “food chain”. He travelled aprox 80 kms to meet him. 
 

Oh and I forgot to mention in my first post, that the PM is alive for now, but in critical condition.

[Mamoulian War]

Now it starts to be interesting, the guy whot shot the PM, has written a “novel” full of hate speech against gypsies, and in the past was associated with pro-russian paramilitary group Slovenskí Branci. It starts to smell more and more as a Russian infulence operation.