The All Things Political Topic - Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation

[BruceVC]

I dont agree that Trump and Biden foreign policy would have necessarily  been the same towards Ukraine. The US foreign policy is consistent when it comes to geopolitical events like the Cold War but there  are numerous foreign policy  differences and outcomes between US presidents for as long as I have been following US political developments since 9/11

Trump has always been more friendly towards Putin and there is a  segment of US right-wing media, like Tucker Carlson, that are very opposed to US assistance or at least question the reason for Putins War and blame the West\NATO hyperbole

Just Trump's disdain and lack of understanding of NATO, which Biden rejected , is another contentious example of the difference between Trump and normal US president foreign policy

I guess we will never know but I am not confident that Ukraine would have got the same support from US under Trump

 

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

 

 

Was surprised to then see the multiple paragraphs that I did not read all of that seemed to be talking about how ACTUALLY, there's no law about there being more than two parties.

your loss. you too mighta' learned something.

keep in mind, the specific euro observation were that the US should "allow" more than two parties. is a frequent claim by americans and foreigners that the US has a two-party system. is nothing which prevents 3p from being successful at the local level save familiarity and custom. at the national level is similar no impediment or systemic limits. curious enough, is a state-level issue 'cause most (not all) individual states has winner-take-all grants o' "electors" (or whatever is the state vernacular) and this has led to 3p success at the national level becoming prohibitive difficult for President and a smidge less so for Congress. etc.

and then we explained the whole state v. national aspects and constitutional prohibitions and limits am not gonna once again get into 'cause one person were too lazy to read. US literal can't do anything to allow... and the follow up where an american indicated he were 3p were precise our point, 'cause most americans don't recognize the issues any better than does ordinary australians or germans who get all their political info from the intraweb. 

education is always the first step. am here to help if you let us.

next, if you wish, we can explain how poor understood and misapplied is the occam's razor principle.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Gromnir

[Chairchucker]

32 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

your loss. you too mighta' learned something.

I suppose it's possible, but as I've grown older I've found I don't have the patience to wade through your tiresome gimmick to get to whatever the point is.

[Gromnir]

5 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

I suppose it's possible, but as I've grown older I've found I don't have the patience to wade through your tiresome gimmick to get to whatever the point is.

and thus you keep making the same mistake. 

education is not ez and am admitted similar old(er) so we no longer try and lead folks such as you gently to enlightenment. take or leave the opportunity matters little to us.

*shrug*

is a good example o' a common problem. ask most americans if we got a two party system and you will get near universal agreement. then ask those same americans what it means that we got a two party system or how 3p are limited and am suspecting an embarrassing high % o' folks scramble to their favorite search engine 'cause they never bothered to consider what it means that the US is two party. surely there must be some kinda meaningful limit on parties other than democrats and republicans or we would have more parties represented, yes? even so, is one o' those things everybody knows while most people don't have a real clue as to reasons and they sure don't get why is so difficult to change.

our gimmick is indeed annoying. may come as a shock, but that were the original intent behind the gimmick. 

*eye roll*

regardless, you still have a chance to self educate. never too late or too old.

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

14 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

I suppose it's possible, but as I've grown older I've found I don't have the patience to wade through your tiresome gimmick to get to whatever the point is.

Yes, the thing about sharing information on any forum is it can't be  too much detail or most people lose interest. You have to reasonable, maybe one link or so and one or 2 paragraphs that are specific to the point. Thats what most people expect when they debate on forums 

It reminds me of the debate we had about CRT and you asked what is CRT in the US or something similar and Gromnir posted that 120 page .pdf as an explanation from 2011. As if anyone is going to read a 120 page .pdf 

 

[Pidesco]

Using the Kristallnatcht to promote fried chicken.

Yep, this happened.

[Malcador]

8 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

Using the Kristallnatcht to promote fried chicken.

Yep, this happened.

"The incident recalled other fast-food advertising slogan gaffs, such as when McDonald’s in Portugal used the campaign slogan “Sundae Bloody Sundae” in a Halloween campaign for its ice-cream puddings."

For that example, I can sort of understand them just knowing the U2 song but not paying much attention, and is a different country at least.  KFC's decision, I'd love to read how they decided on that promotion.

 

[Gfted1]

Student loan forgiveness: Federal court strikes down Biden's program | CNN Politics    

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

23 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Student loan forgiveness: Federal court strikes down Biden's program | CNN Politics    

It's worth noting the plaintiff had a PPP loan forgiven that was over twice the max the student loan cancelation could be.

https://theintercept.com/2022/11/09/student-debt-relief-lawsuit-ppp-myra-brown/

Loan forgiveness for me but not for thee.

[Gromnir]

would put judge mark pittman in a similar legal rogue's gallery as aileen cannon.

“In this country, we are not ruled by an all-powerful executive with a pen and a phone,” he continued.

is a direct shot at obamma, has no place in the opinon and seeing as how the judge admitted ignored the standing issues, this decision amounts to little more than political scree.

...

am knowing is texas, but...

c'mon man.

HA! Good Fun!

[Raithe]

Well, maybe not political per se, but that interesting mix of economics and.. dare I say it, funny?

 

[Gromnir]

am gonna guess trump is lying, 'cause if is true he sent doj resources to interfere with a state election, then he just admitted to crime.  somehow having this go complete unnoticed in 2018 is unlikely, so am gonna suggest trump reflexive falsehood is what is happening with this admission, but it would be big news if true.

HA! Good Fun!

[Raithe]

Also from view from the cheap seats, a re-post of something from the other year:

 

[Bartimaeus]

As mentioned a few days ago, it was expected that the Nevada senatorial race would go Democrats' way, and it now has, with networks starting to officially project Catherine Cortez Masto as the winner and for Democrats to retain control of the Senate before the Georgia run-off. The House is still too close to call, although Republicans have an advantage.

[Gromnir]

Just now, Bartimaeus said:

As mentioned a few days ago, it was expected that the Nevada senatorial race would go Democrats' way, and it now has, with networks starting to officially project Catherine Cortez Masto as the winner and for Democrats to retain control of the Senate before the Georgia run-off. The House is still too close to call, although Republicans have an advantage.

am thinking georgia is a near must for democrats. manchin is up for reelection in 2024 and is quite possible he needs to out gop his gop rivals if he has a chance o' victory. sinema is... weird. am not sure what is sinema's endgame, but if the republicans ever get a budget reconciliation effort passed (filibuster proof) or whenever Presidential appointments are up for senate approval, democrats should not feel comfortable they got the senate votes to prevail. am thinking dems serious need to hit the georgia messaging with all resources at their disposal.

yeah, the kinda majority the gop is likely to have in the house has only ever been effective during crisis situations when both parties set aside differences... and am thinking there were one oddball year when a bunch o' Congressmen died due to disease right after an election and so a bare majority effective increased, but a gop majority in the house is still bad news for democrats and not just 'cause o' the investigations. similar, the razor-thin margin democrats will enjoy in the senate is deserving a momentary sigh o' relief, but not much more as you got at least a couple senators who is as likely to vote with gop as the libs.

regardless, and unfortunate for more than a few posters, while 2022 were not great for republicans, it is terrible for progressives. the only legislation which is gonna get made law for the next two years is the increasingly rare bill which got bipartisan support. even Presidential appointees is gonna need tend towards moderation to be successful. unfortunate, progressives ain't fans o' compromise anymore than has been the maga republicans. if every issue represents an existential crisis, then it is indeed immoral to ever give ground. 

in any event, am predicting a whole lotta stoopid investigations from the likely (not certain) new House majority, 'cause am gonna assume the gop did not get the memo (in the form o' unanticipated poor midterm gains) from their constituents that all the trumpy vendetta and outrage is providing diminishing returns for their party. furthermore, if we were a democrat we would be mighty concerned 'bout manchin and sinema these next two years. 

georgia is if not vital, it is still mighty important and am thinking the messaging on that point so far has been lacking.

HA! Good Fun!

[Bartimaeus]

I'm just glad we won't have to much hear or see Mitch McConnell. Now there is a guy that I could do the rest of my life without ever thinking about again. Having the Georgia seat is important for another reason as well: the 2024 senatorial elections will defend 2018's results, and that was a blue wave year in a large way, so it is likely that one or multiple of those seats will flip. In particular...

1. Sinema's seat in Arizona (who may be primaried out anyways)
2. Jon Tester in Montana
3. Jacky Rosen in Nevada
4. Sherrod Brown in Ohio
5. Joe Manchin in West Virginia

...are probably all the most vulnerable seats, especially IMO Tester and Manchin (both of these guys are kind of unicorns for continuing to win their seats). There doesn't look to be even a single seat in 2024 that Democrats could realistically expand their majority with - maybe Indiana and Tennessee, but I'd say both are long shots.

(e): One other positive from this election has been that the cries against "fraud" and democracy have been way less compared to two years ago. Seems like a lot of the conservative anger has instead been directed towards Trump and other leaders not named Ron DeSantis; DeSantis and Trump look to be the presumed heavyweights for the 2024 presidential election, assuming Trump is still a free man by that point. DeSantis winning that battle could certainly be...interesting, what with the cultish fervor Trump inspires. On a completely separate note, via ballot initiative, it looks like Connecticut will implement early voting, Nevada will implement open primaries and ranked choice voting, and Michigan will implement early voting.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

Democrats to maintain control of the United States Senate

am posting not for the story but for the comments. fox news articles is worth reading if only to get a looksee at what fox readers/viewers believe.

in any event, the next two years will be interesting. success o' democrats is gonna depend on foreign supply chains, the housing market, putin and a bunch o' factors they is gonna have even less control o' in 2023. perhaps more vital to democrat fortunes is how the gop reacts to the 2022 midterms and to the trump legal problems which is only gonna increase in the near future. am doubting anybody believes trump is gonna try and fade into the background as the gop power dynamic is clarified. how does the gop respond this time. after january 6, many gop leaders made an attempt to distance themselves from trump. a few visible republicans even criticized trump excesses which they had ignored the previous four years. has been multiple times during the past +6 years republicans shoulda' showered off the trump filth and stank, but didn't. is 2022 gonna be different? 

am thinking we are stuck with trumpism for awhile, but the gop could be in for major or minor changes as republicans either swear new loyalties or reaffirm their devotion to trump. is so many times republicans coulda' turned away from trump but did not. is 2022 different? am genuine uncertain.

Did Lindsey Graham Say Republicans Would Get 'Destroyed' If They Nominated Donald Trump?

credit where credit is due, eh? call, him a spineless hypocrite, but many o' lindsey's pre 2016 election predictions 'bout trump look positive prescient,  yes?

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/29/undecided-voters-midterms-polls-2022-00063971 

Its interesting how the polling data seems to have got it wrong in these midterms. But its always the undecided voters who generally dont participate in polls and they can really swing elections or upset things like we have witnessed in these midterms

The polls are normally accurate but undecided voters make up 10-15% of all US registered voters and the polling data never includes them which explains why polling is wrong sometimes

 

But end of the day I watched numerous polls on both left and right media platforms and it was more or less consistent, most people considered these the salient issues

 

• Economy
• inflation
• crime
• border control

 

Yet its obvious that other issues like R vs W and the anti-Trump vote, and that includes election denialist candidates who didnt do well overall ,  were more significant than what many  thought. And I would argue that undecided voters played a big part in this

But the GOP needs to distance itself from Trump in 2024 as reasonably as possible because if we didnt see GOP taking Congress in this environment of real economic and societal issues I cant see Trump  benefiting them in 2024. The anti-Trump vote shouldn't  be ignored anymore.

And as I mentioned in a previous post  there are very credible GOP candidates like Kemp, DeSantis and Abbott who people can rally behind and so can undecided voters but Trump has now become a liability to the final voting outcomes

[BruceVC]

Here is some good news about the US midterms, we may not have seen a "red wave " but rather a " rainbow wave "

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2022/11/12/rainbow-wave-how-lgbtq-politicians-broke-barriers-in-midterm-election/

 

[Gromnir]

the post mortems is gonna be interesting. so far the stories we has seen from conservatives is that they either blame trump election denialism or mitch mcconnell failure as a team player for the red trickle. is good news for democrats if gop can't even consider the possibility that there were other factors to consider. 

Why were the midterm elections close? Exit polls offer clues.

There was a significant partisan divide in voters’ priorities and attitudes this year. About 45% of voters who supported a GOP House candidate called inflation their top issue from a list of five, with 15% picking immigration and fewer than 15% picking any other issue as their priority. Among voters who backed a Democratic candidate, about 43% called abortion their top issue, with 18% picking inflation and fewer than 15% picking another issue.

...

obviously inflation were gonna be a factor, but...

It’s Not Just the Economy, Stupid

the economy were gonna be significant and real even if Congress or the President has limited capacity to do anything meaningful in the short term. that said, the party in power is ordinarily blamed for perceived economic failures, so were hardly crazy-talk to assume democrats would suffer in the midterms... as were near invariably the case even w/o historic inflation increases.

however, most o' the other hobgoblins the gop imagined into being only resonated with fox viewers, and that clear weren't enough. 

democrats got their own issues to resolve and am no more confident they will come up with a compelling unifying message which genuine speaks to voters as a whole than the gop. scotus handed midterm democrats a huge gift with abortion. trump and his carnival o' crazy will also continue to benefit democrats. is quite possible those two factors will continue to motivate liberal and independent voters in enough numbers to make a difference, but for how long, eh? 

regardless, is good news for democrats if the gop savages their own instead o' addressing real problems. am admitted curious to see how much blood is metaphorical shed before/if the gop achieves some new power dynamic, 'cause am suspecting they embrace stoopid and forge ahead with an investigations-focused platform which is only gonna reach their base and conspiracy theory nutters.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 14, 2022 by Gromnir

[Pidesco]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

regardless, is good news for democrats if the gop savages their own instead o' addressing real problems. am admitted curious to see how much blood is metaphorical shed before/if the gop achieves some new power dynamic, 'cause am suspecting they embrace stoopid and forge ahead with an investigations-focused platform which is only gonna reach their base and conspiracy theory nutters.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Given that the majority they might eventually achieve in the House will be razor thin, it might happen that about the only thing the GOP will be able to do is investigations. Getting all their ducks in a row to pass legislation in the house will be a tough ask. Assuming they get the majority, which, amazingly is still very much up in the air.

[Gromnir]

9 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

 

Given that the majority they might eventually achieve in the House will be razor thin, it might happen that about the only thing the GOP will be able to do is investigations. Getting all their ducks in a row to pass legislation in the house will be a tough ask. Assuming they get the majority, which, amazingly is still very much up in the air.

yeah, we mentioned a few posts ago how ordinarily, and maybe with one or two exceptions, the only time a House with the kinda majority the 2022 gop may achieve (is not certain, but is increasing likely) has ever been able to do anything noteworthy were during times o' crisis. assuming there is no war or other catastrophe, then what is the gop gonna do other than investigations? might be able to bring about a government shutdown, but am not seeing how that helps republicans. budget reconciliation is a thing and should not be dismissed.

...

o' more immediate concern is the strange but true scenario o' trump being made speaker of the house. at the very least, such an outcome could have a chilling effect on the criminal investigations o' trump.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Bartimaeus]

Although it would've been a bunch of dysfunctional fun to see a 218-217 House (Democrat or Republican, either way), it looks like it's going to be 220-215 Republican. Truly an injustice.

[Gfted1]

Twitter lays off 5K contractors in surprise 2nd wave of cuts, more mods lost | Ars Technica

[Pidesco]

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Although it would've been a bunch of dysfunctional fun to see a 218-217 House (Democrat or Republican, either way), it looks like it's going to be 220-215 Republican. Truly an injustice.

I'm predicting a difference of three or less. We should bet on it.