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warhammer 40k: rogue trader


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Posted (edited)

HA! Good Fun!

ps chaos affected our link. fixed

pps am obvious choosing missionary with flame weapon training

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Posted (edited)

Will of course be attempting my best Queen Emeraldas impression (Have yet to assemble the Eldar Corsairs for my Captain Harlock-themed project, let alone put paint to model).

 

Promotional materials suggest one of the possible companions is an Eldar Ranger. I had theorised that there would be immediate speculation on whether or not she would have her own romance questline and upon visiting the Owlcat Discord this hypothesis turned out to be correct. I do hope that there is an option for her to prestige level into a Harlequin or something.

Edited by Agiel
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Quote
"All of life’s lessons come with a price…
We may learn a lesson, and things may get better in the end…
So that’s the trade off…life experience for exhaustion… wisdom for innocence.
There may be a happy ending to our stories…
but we paid for that with little pieces of our souls and we will never get those back."

-Austin Lunn

 

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What's wrong with Owlcat?

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Okay-to-abysmal writing, tons of bugs, questionable design decisions, bad secondary mechanics.
Plus what bothers me personally on top: balance leaning heavily towards munchkins, too ambitious for their skill, games too long.
Also based on the teaser this art style suited Pathfinder really well, but for 40k it looks too cartoony.

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I remember my unit of jump pack equipped ratlings with fondness 😎

(that was when playing the original Rogue Trader)

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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19 minutes ago, Oner said:

Okay-to-abysmal writing, tons of bugs, questionable design decisions, bad secondary mechanics.

That sounds a lot like Obsidian.  😛

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Oner said:

Okay-to-abysmal writing, tons of bugs, questionable design decisions, bad secondary mechanics.
Plus what bothers me personally on top: balance leaning heavily towards munchkins, too ambitious for their skill, games too long.
Also based on the teaser this art style suited Pathfinder really well, but for 40k it looks too cartoony.

and don't forget their weird fascination with puzzles. enigma?

most o' oner's complaints is gonna be echoed by other gamers to greater or lesser degrees. we personal enjoyed wotr, but am not gonna try and convince anybody owlcat is a great developer.

is also the politics angle which might offend people.

with owlcat doing a warhammer 40k game, is more than a few legit concerns.

furthermore, am thinking a warhammer 40k crpg is gonna be tough for any developer to get "right," 'cause in our experience, most fans do not view similar to Gromnir... most fans don't view as does games workshop.

The Imperium Is Driven by Hate. Warhammer Is Not

is a good argument you need a particular deft collection o' writers to strike the right balance so as not to offend many 40k fans and still remain true to 40k. owlcat is such a developer? 

HA! Good Fun!

ps am personal trying to think positive, but is not in our nature to do so.

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

and don't forget their weird fascination with puzzles. enigma?

most o' oner's complaints is gonna be echoed by other gamers to greater or lesser degrees. we personal enjoyed wotr, but am not gonna try and convince anybody owlcat is a great developer.

is also the politics angle which might offend people.

with owlcat doing a warhammer 40k game, is more than a few legit concerns.

also, am thinking a warhammer 40k crpg is gonna be tough for any developer to get "right," 'cause in our experience, most fans do not view similar to Gromnir... most fans don't view as does game workshop.

The Imperium Is Driven by Hate. Warhammer Is Not

is a good argument you need a particular deft collection o' writers to strike the right balance so as not to offend many 40k fans and still remain true to 40k. owlcat is such a developer? 

HA! Good Fun!

trying to please 40k fan doesn't seems like a good goal to begin with

owlcat puzzle are certainly unique brand of awful

fully intentional sadism like elden ring

Edited by uuuhhii
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I share the concerns. I would love to have good WH RPG, but Owlcat does not feel like the dev to do dark gritty and bat**** crazy setting like this. I am worried their politics will spill into it too much

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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3 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Just peeked at the Owlcat Discord and it's all romance 

Never ever go on any Discord.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, Malcador said:

That sounds a lot like Obsidian.  😛

I can agree on everything but the writing. Obsidian is way ahead of Owlcat in writing and character development, and that is kind of important in an RPG.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

I can agree on everything but the writing. Obsidian is way ahead of Owlcat in writing and character development, and that is kind of important in an RPG.

converse, am pretty much gonna disagree on (almost) everything. bugs? obsidian, in spite o' issues with bugs is still way ahead o' owlcat. heck, look on this board and see how obsidian responds to bug reporting from the community. we got wotr bugs from the beta which persist and am having no idea if owlcat is even aware o' our the bugs 'cause getting feedback from owlcat anywhere but discord is improbable. wotr were much better than kingmaker insofar as stability is concerned, but is nevertheless not comparable to obsidian releases which admitted ain't particular stable. owlcat is in a unique kinda realm o' buggy, but am admitting after how terribad were kingmaker for stability, wotr actual were a welcome relief.

mechanics? apologies to fans, but the actual owlcat mechanics added to pathfinder stuff is horribly broken such that we never finished kingmaker and the army campaign aspects in wotr is, at best, not good... and while we know many people love the epic stuff in wotr, is horribly broken, unbalanced and often just plain nonsensical. 

however, obsidian deserves criticism regarding bad design decisions, which they has a preternatural knack for blowing beyond expectations. deadfire ship-to-ship combat were extreme expensive and added almost nothing to gameplay value. deadfire itself were a commercial mistake in that in spite o' every warning sign the game had fewer people interested in the product than pillars, obsidan spent more money making a game which were gonna even further alienate those who wanted pillars to be their ideal bg3. you had a crowdfunding campaign for deadfire which brought in more money than either owlcat title, but obsidian didn't appear to notice the number o' contributors decreased substantial from pillars. more money but less people? obsidian wasted a hardcore pillars fanbase attempting to be the next d:os2... or somesuch 'cause that is how obsidian developers described their deadfire thinking. 'course this is the same developer who s'posed negotiated extra time and money from lucas to finish kotor2 as it deserved, but never bothered to get the new agreement in writing before they invested additional resources and altered their development timeline. serious.

oh, and while is not mentioned in this thread as an owlcat strength or obsidian weakness am gonna note how frustrating is the relative lack o' communication from owlcat save through twitter and the aforementioned hellscape which is discord. is not as if developers owe us their thoughts and intentions, but as we referenced insofar as bugs, am having no idea if owlcat is even aware or cares 'bout a few problems with their games 'cause save for the infrequent discord/reddit/twitter communication, owlcat is bordering on willful obtuse levels o' reluctance to respond.

bad design decisions? sure, obsidian wins the razzie in that category 'cause they got a curious history o' making preternatural bad moves. converse, owlcat has played safe and gave fans (most fans) what they wanted from a pathfinder/d20 game. the problem for owlcat is there ain't been a real 40k crpg to know what is gonna work with the fans when writing becomes more important.  as we already noted, am pretty sure we view 40k much different than a whole lotta fans 'cause we see the satire, but much as with fallout, is a large % o' the fanbase which takes 40k deadly serious and for them there is a proper way to do a crpg. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

heck, look on this board and see how obsidian responds to bug reporting from the community.

Obs use Jira (or something that looks a lot like it) for issue tracking and posting workarounds, but they rarely engage here directly. For TOW, the publisher handled that entirely if memory serves. I have no clue how Owlcat does it, but it can't be much worse than what Larian has for BG3 (internal report form and forums - rarely any dev responses there either) or, heh, CIG's Issue Council.

I think opacity in issue management is something game developers in general could get better at, but it's an ongoing process. Obs have certainly got better at it than they were back in 2004, but then, it would be a bit of a red flag if they hadn't. So perhaps Owlcat have learned some lessons?

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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31 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Obs use Jira (or something that looks a lot like it) for issue tracking and posting workarounds, but they rarely engage here directly. For TOW, the publisher handled that entirely if memory serves. I have no clue how Owlcat does it, but it can't be much worse than what Larian has for BG3 (internal report form and forums - rarely any dev responses there either) or, heh, CIG's Issue Council.

I think opacity in issue management is something game developers in general could get better at, but it's an ongoing process. Obs have certainly got better at it than they were back in 2004, but then, it would be a bit of a red flag if they hadn't. So perhaps Owlcat have learned some lessons?

base on the difference of kingmaker and wotr

only thing they learned seems to be that video game doesn't need to be limited by the tabletop d20 system and sometime use 25% and 50% damage instead of just + numbers

the game certainly not noticeably better optimized or have less annoying puzzle

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can't speak to outer worlds. no doubt the publisher has input on tech support and how such will be handled. no such limits for owlcat regarding kingmaker and wotr. ignore community is a choice from owlcat. even so, "rare" engagement here on even outer worlds would nevertheless be more than is provided at the official owlcat boards.

now compare pillars and deadfire to owlcat games. apples v. apples.

31 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Obs have certainly got better at it than they were back in 2004, but then, it would be a bit of a red flag if they hadn't. So perhaps Owlcat have learned some lessons?

this seems like an odd observation. am suspecting the notion obsidian has decreased opacity is not gonna be borne out by the experience o' many (most) folks who has followed their games over time. again, the most significant difference would appear to be the publisher relationship, but in general, opacity from obsidian has increased a bit from a previous highpoint during pillars development. 

am also gonna note issue spotting has had peaks and valleys and am not certain where obsidian is at the moment on some kinda admitted arbitrary scale. hard to imagine they is worse than owlcat. regardless, as an example, less than a couple weeks before deadfire release, obsidian finally recognized there were an issue with how might bonuses to damage were calculated. what made the recognition particularly irksome were the issue had been a frequent board topic for months. unfortunate, obsidian were less focused on board feedback compared to past titles and instead relied on game telemetry and other sources. previous to deadfire is almost certain the issue woulda' been spotted and addressed in a more timely fashion. that said, insofar as issue spotting is concerned, is doubtful there has been a linear evolution, particular as has been noted obsidian has, in the past, needed work with different publishers who no doubt had their own schemes. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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On 6/2/2022 at 6:12 PM, Hurlsnot said:

I can agree on everything but the writing. Obsidian is way ahead of Owlcat in writing and character development, and that is kind of important in an RPG.

Mmmmmm, I don't know... I think that the number of people who just skip the dialogue is fairly large, like more than half large.

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53 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Mmmmmm, I don't know... I think that the number of people who just skip the dialogue is fairly large, like more than half large.

I read faster than the characters talk, I skip a lot of dialogue.

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