The All Things Political Topic - All people love themselves too much to be changed by something as simple as love.

[Guard Dog]

G is a dyed in the wool true blue Democrat. Just goes to show nobody is perfect. 

[Sarex]

5 hours ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

It's not just women's rights, but pretty much the rights of every marginalized group and poor people. It's kind of a **** hole tbh.

But now you have Joe Rogan so it can't be all bad.

[Chairchucker]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:13 PM, BruceVC said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/12/democrats-lose-culture-war/620887/

 

Here is a good read about why the Democrats are losing the US culture wars. I support policies from both the GOP and Democrats but I have been very concerned with certain ideas and strategies from the left since Trump won in 2016. I agree with much of this article and in summary the things I definitely agree with  are  points like 

 

• Like the pugnacious DLC founder Al From during the 1980s, Teixeira believes that Democrats can’t convince swing voters that the party is changing unless they publicly denounce activists advocating for positions such as defunding the police and loosening immigration enforcement at the border
• that progressives are steering Democrats toward unsustainable and unelectable positions, particularly on cultural and social questions.

Its a good article 

One of the worst things about politics is political parties frequently finding themselves in a position of having to choose policies on the basis of whether they can convince people to vote for them with those policies, rather than whether they are good policies.

 

Another of the worst things about politics is political parties.

[Gfted1]

*sigh* I just wish our politicians would focus on UBI, UHC, UFE and UFH. We would be orbiting Alpha Centauri by now. 

[Chairchucker]

8 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

*sigh* I just wish our politicians would focus on UBI, UHC, UFE and UFH. We would be orbiting Alpha Centauri by now. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUi926ses94 ?

[Gfted1]

Pfft, you youngsters dont even know that UHF life.  

[Hurlshort]

10 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

G is a dyed in the wool true blue Democrat. Just goes to show nobody is perfect. 

My wife and mother-in-law were both died in the wool Republicans until Trump. So I guess I'm saying be patient? Maybe the Democratic party will get taken over by a reality TV star who is on record about grabbing female body parts. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

7 hours ago, Sarex said:

But now you have Joe Rogan so it can't be all bad.

It's kind of like the Empire from Star Wars, in that like everything outisde of some government and business buildings is broken down and in disrepair. But the barbecue is great and Austin is a pretty cool place for the arts.

36 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

My wife and mother-in-law were both died in the wool Republicans until Trump. So I guess I'm saying be patient? Maybe the Democratic party will get taken over by a reality TV star who is on record about grabbing female body parts. 

Al Franken?

[Sarex]

40 minutes ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

It's kind of like the Empire from Star Wars, in that like everything outisde of some government and business buildings is broken down and in disrepair. But the barbecue is great and Austin is a pretty cool place for the arts.

Don't worry, my whole country is like that...

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Hurlsnot said:

My wife and mother-in-law were both died in the wool Republicans until Trump. So I guess I'm saying be patient? Maybe the Democratic party will get taken over by a reality TV star who is on record about grabbing female body parts. 

Trust me, a persons political affiliations are no more important and far less interesting to me than the sports teams they cheer for. It's past time our countrymen pulled that splintery stick out of our collective asses believing who we voted for in the last election is actually important. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

12 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Don't worry, my whole country is like that...

So is mine lmao. Honestly every place I have seen or heard of has pretty clear divisions like that. But at least the food is ok.

Edited December 12, 2021 by KP on top of ZA WARUDO

[Sarex]

16 minutes ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

But at least the food is ok.

Tru that.

[Gromnir]

26 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Trust me

no.

is exact your kinda silliness which explains why trump got elected the first time, 'cause in spite o' muslim ban promise, pu$$y grab recording, and verified stories o' trump ripping off charities and defrauding investors, not enough people were convinced it made a difference who were in the white house to actual vote. the very idea that after the last five years and post january 6 we still got more than a few souls claiming it makes no difference who gets votes is disturbing 'cause such a position requires willful ignorance.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guard Dog]

12 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

no.

is exact your kinda silliness which explains why trump got elected the first time, 'cause in spite o' muslim ban promise, pu$$y grab recording, and verified stories o' trump ripping off charities and defrauding investors, not enough people were convinced it made a difference who were in the white house to actual vote. the very idea that after the last five years and post january 6 we still got more than a few souls claiming it makes no difference who gets votes is disturbing 'cause such a position requires willful ignorance.

HA! Good Fun!

 

How do you figure? I didn't vote for the son of a bitch either time. And if I had voted for Hillary Clinton or Biden that would have gotten them one step closer to the White House? Trump won my state 700k votes in 2020. More in 2016. Voting my conscience made no difference in the outcome. Besides you know why I do it. For 3rd party candidates total vote count is not irrelevant. 

As for the people who don't show up to vote take it up with them. I show up every time. There are Congressional and State and County elections where my vote actually does matter. 

[Gromnir]

so now is claim that it doesn't matter for whom you vote but only in the limited situation when dealing with the electoral college and a non battle ground state? bit more limited than your oft professed generalization, no? hurl made a broad party affiliation observation, so your response now doesn't appear to be responsive. have you had a come to Jesus moment and realized it very much does matter for whom you vote, but in extreme narrow sense you are decrying the electoral college scheme? that would be swell. for the moment am gonna pretend that is what you actual mean 'cause then we wouldn't need mock your kookie mantra for the umpteenth time.

am also gonna note how amusing is your tenacious 3rd party delusions. you thought 2016 3rd party numbers were significant, and clear still do. you hold on to this fantasy  in spite o' 2020. am seeming to recall Gromnir pointing out to you post 2016 how there had been past cycles o' significant 3rd party voting in Presidential contests which likewise were insular and not sea change events. a single national election revelaing heightend 3p voting, particular when overall voting is depressed, is not significant to those alternate parties. you chuckleheads gotta learn to start placing more effort into local and state, but instead we see spike cohen as the vp choice for the libertarians.  

the thing is, those 3rd party votes in close contests which clear don't actual mean much to those 3rd parties (how many people recall even the name o' ross perot's party w/o google aid?) is actual more meaningful to the eventual winner o' the contested Presidential election. is the reason why trump kept insisting he won the popular vote in spite o' all evidence to the contrary. is tough to legitimize a mandate from the people w/o votes to backup such a claim, and genuine paradigm shifting legislation is unlikely to happen w/o such a mandate.

regardless, am gonna happily embrace your newfound realization that it does indeed matter for whom one votes in national elections, and if you sudden claim otherwise we will perhaps take a page from your book and just pretend away the contrary information which does not support our conclusion. very refreshing.

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

3 hours ago, KP on top of ZA WARUDO said:

Al Franken?

Sadly, or maybe appropriately, Al Franken stepped down because of his controversy. 

You know, instead of using **** grabbing as a springboard into the oval office. 

I honestly don't understand Republicanism any more. Matt Gaetz also seems to be sticking around after his gross stuff. Loke, are there any standards anymore?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

20 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Sadly, or maybe appropriately, Al Franken stepped down because of his controversy. 

You know, instead of using **** grabbing as a springboard into the oval office. 

I honestly don't understand Republicanism any more. Matt Gaetz also seems to be sticking around after his gross stuff. Loke, are there any standards anymore?

I was thinking he could make a return or something. I dunno, I'm trying to think of a reality star who fits the bill and am coming up short.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Gromnir said:

no.

is exact your kinda silliness which explains why trump got elected the first time, 'cause in spite o' muslim ban promise, pu$$y grab recording, and verified stories o' trump ripping off charities and defrauding investors, not enough people were convinced it made a difference who were in the white house to actual vote. the very idea that after the last five years and post january 6 we still got more than a few souls claiming it makes no difference who gets votes is disturbing 'cause such a position requires willful ignorance.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Gromnir you have raised an interesting point that I think gets misunderstood or ignored by those that dont like Trump and yet dont want to understand why he won in 2016 and this matters because Trump might run and win in 2024 and that is something none of us want...the  GOP must find a better candidate than Trump. The problem being much of the base support Trump running again so its not about what GOP personally think about Trump as the best candidate  as we have seen GOP Republicans raise issues and support things just because Trump is involved and the base expect Republican politicians to support Trump or they dont get reelected in most states

So the most important question all of us who have a vested interest in the politically and economic stability of the US is " why did so many Americans vote for Trump in 2016 and 2020 " because clearly he represents policies and views that matter to many Americans. And it took me about 4-6 months after Trumps 2016 election to understand this and certain reasons made sense to me after I realized what they were while other reasons seemed irrational and unnecessary 

But the main point is we must stop thinking Trumps victory was an aberration  or an example of the failure of Democracy  or what GB mentioned is why Trump won in 2016 because that isnt the full picture and ignores the things that Trump stands for that matter many Americans. You are well informed about the history of the US and how Congress works  and the importance of the Constitution but you have a blind spot around what Trump did that mattered and why he is popular. In 2020 more Republican supporters came out to vote for Trump than in 2016 yet he still lost but its an important point about Trumps support

We got lucky with Trump losing in 2020 because I believe if it wasnt for the overall mishandling of the pandemic  and how that created the carnage of the various waves Trump would have won in 2020. So an understanding of what Trump represents is important but I  dont agree with some of the things you raise as being important to what people liked about him or rather these things are reflected on differently. And end of the day even if you dont agree with the lack of concern for some of the points you raised the significance of these points does matter to peoples voting choices and explains them. So if you dont like Trump and are frustrated with his support you wont gain much insight if you interact in a echo chamber where people dont like Trump anyway and will not provide some context to things you mention. But I can share some views with you from some who support Trump 

For example 

• The Muslim Ban - We discussed this last time and I understand this has always concerned you because last time you mentioned this was  a bill  that seemed to blatantly generalize and target people who shared a religion and that is anathema to how human rights  is defined in all our countries. But it wasnt a ban of all Muslims and only certain Muslim countries were targeted. And the bill was not logical in some of the cases of countries being banned but some I think are valid 
• Trumps success and failures of being a good  and successful business man, he has definitely created some profitable hotels and Trump is effective at transactional business which some countries and people appreciate but I dont support because it can undermine governance and agreed on legal realities
• Trumps demonstrating  a lack of respect for women who question him or touching women inappropriately. His supporters will dismiss this because they say " thats how men sometimes act " and its " just change room rhetoric that men participate in. I dont agree with this because the men I know dont act like that in front of women or talk about women like that 
• 6 January Capitol attacks : The worst misunderstanding and responses from Trump for me was him rejecting the Biden win and then how Trump did believe right wing media conspiracy theories about how the " election was definitely fraudulent " . So its a huge problem when a president who loses any election questions how the election works so yes I would say misinformation can create strange responses from those on the losing side which we saw with all the endless failed " election fraud cases". So what we saw on 6 January was something very similar with several hundred Americans failed to believe or understand how the US election had been won. They ignored common sense and decided to believe their own reality of the election results. The purpose of the violence was not going to somehow make a misperception true and  it had no clear outcome . So this type of violence was and is unacceptable and people must be prosecuted who broke the law but I dont see this as anything more than what it was....some US citizens deciding to believe a false narrative of the election facts and deciding to use violence at the Capitol building. Its bad but not about a real insurrection or attempt to overthrow government? 

But in closing Trump became president because of real sentiment in support of his policies  and many Republicans believing he represented their concerns and fears. So it always matters who gets votes but its people who ultimately vote for the candidate and the candidate normally raises polices that people can identify with and this resonance makes people support the candidate 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

G is a dyed in the wool true blue Democrat. Just goes to show nobody is perfect. 

Wisconsin Democrats are fine, they dont take extremist liberal views like Democrats in California but not all Democrats in California take extremist views  but it seems more common 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

fears

I think I quoted all the important parts of your post... but since you already know the answer, why even bother with the question in the first place?

It's a society that spends a disproportionate part of its existence living in fear. Racism and McCarthyism is alive and well, even if it's 50 years past its best by date.

To this outsiders eye, it looks like Trump got elected because he wasn't Hillary and Biden got elected because he wasn't Trump. Yet those are just symptoms of much deeper issues with a much longer history.

In an atmosphere of fear, you have a fertile soil for demagogues, if history is anything to go by. Just lie, accuse, point fingers and blame anything and everyone for every woe, real or perceived (especially the latter). It's worked like a charm since the ancient Persians.

[HoonDing]

This is what 70 million  people voted for:

[BruceVC]

44 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I think I quoted all the important parts of your post... but since you already know the answer, why even bother with the question in the first place?

It's a society that spends a disproportionate part of its existence living in fear. Racism and McCarthyism is alive and well, even if it's 50 years past its best by date.

To this outsiders eye, it looks like Trump got elected because he wasn't Hillary and Biden got elected because he wasn't Trump. Yet those are just symptoms of much deeper issues with a much longer history.

In an atmosphere of fear, you have a fertile soil for demagogues, if history is anything to go by. Just lie, accuse, point fingers and blame anything and everyone for every woe, real or perceived (especially the latter). It's worked like a charm since the ancient Persians.

 

I dont believe it was fear that was the main reason for why most people voted for Trump and still support him. Because your example is valid for the era of the Cold War but what would you consider is the same fear mongering or hyperbolic examples that Trump uses ....in other words Trump dismissing things like the media or  BLM is more about SJ movements that tend to be focus points in the US 

During the Republican race he claimed to believe in issues like the border problem and how the US was no longer respected in the world. He also suddenly really had issues with the " Obama America" and how Obama had been the worst president the US had ever seen and as usual much of his public convention was about theater and literally  working the crowd ...you can give Trump that, he was able to connect with many people in ways I could never saw

But I would say he exaggerated the state of the  US decline and stood for hope ....as in " Make America Great " ...that was one of his quotes?

And I can see how  this could concern anyone who fears future US presidents who are like Trump. 

But can I ask you to clarify something so I understand your point, you mention "t's a society that spends a disproportionate part of its existence living in fear. Racism and McCarthyism is alive and well, even if it's 50 years past its best by date"

I have  heard similar views but I never understand exactly what people mean because I need examples of these things just so I understand the view. So in summary

1. What would do you  mean 50 years in fear of what ...Communism or the Soviets? But the Cold War ended ages  ago and nowadays many young people in the  USA are very confused about what defines the US and some actually think " socialism " will provide a better quality of life for all and consider the proven working economic model of free market principles to actually increase inequality. But some young people who mean well will openly say " we support socialism " yet they live, survive and are intrinsically a part of the great US economic juggernaut which is mostly about normal monetary policies and views that are not normally seen as socialist. So sometimes when we see this resurgence of socialism from some it confuses me   
2. What would be your practical example of Racism and McCarthyism because a quick consideration is many Americans are opposed to racism and support SJ movements like many Democrat members and mayors of liberal cities which is what you would expect. Racism does occur in the US but I dont see how it can very prevalent ?
3. And last question, I always appreciate your view on these topics even if we sometimes disagree on certain realities as you have lots of world experience and places you have worked and lived  in and I assume you probably remember the " red scare " . But my question is what do you think would be  the  worst outcome for the US in the worst  potential future ..silly example but do you think a US of white nationalism is possible? 

 

 

[BruceVC]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:03 AM, rjshae said:

Funny how the choice in US politics is increasingly becoming between two unelectable positions. The Dems are embracing the deconstruction of nationalism while the Pubs are doing the same for rationalism. It feels like a political death spiral.

You raise some interesting points, can you explain further by what you mean by the " deconstruction of nationalism "and the " same for rationalism " .I think I know what you mean but I dont want to guess

And does this mean you wont vote for either party and are you more like GD who supports Libertarianism? 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

 

I dont believe it was fear that was the main reason for why most people voted for Trump and still support him. Because your example is valid for the era of the Cold War but what would you consider is the same fear mongering or hyperbolic examples that Trump uses ....in other words Trump dismissing things like the media or  BLM is more about SJ movements that tend to be focus points in the US 

...

1. What would do you  mean 50 years in fear of what ...Communism or the Soviets? But the Cold War ended ages  ago and nowadays many young people in the  USA are very confused about what defines the US and some actually think " socialism " will provide a better quality of life for all and consider the proven working economic model of free market principles to actually increase inequality. But some young people who mean well will openly say " we support socialism " yet they live, survive and are intrinsically a part of the great US economic juggernaut which is mostly about normal monetary policies and views that are not normally seen as socialist. So sometimes when we see this resurgence of socialism from some it confuses me   
2. What would be your practical example of Racism and McCarthyism because a quick consideration is many Americans are opposed to racism and support SJ movements like many Democrat members and mayors of liberal cities which is what you would expect. Racism does occur in the US but I dont see how it can very prevalent ?
3. And last question, I always appreciate your view on these topics even if we sometimes disagree on certain realities as you have lots of world experience and places you have worked and lived  in and I assume you probably remember the " red scare " . But my question is what do you think would be  the  worst outcome for the US in the worst  potential future ..silly example but do you think a US of white nationalism is possible? 

You are as bad as McCarthy area USA when it comes to BLM. You see them everywhere the same way the McCarthyists saw communists hiding behind each street lamp and behind each window curtain, ready to tear America apart!

The word is 'paranoia' I think... in a society where poverty is a crime, sometimes punishable by death if you have the wrong skin colour and politicians threatens their children with the commies comming and taking them if they don't eat their dinner, people live fearful lives. Add to that a very badly functioning healthcare system for decades (one of the worlds most overpriced and inefficient ones), the lack of workers protection, the lack of security if you lose a job, making many people working 2-3 jobs at a time (making the statistics look nice, but in truth the US workforce is under-employed (and often grossly underpaid). Lack of mental health care. Lack of social welfare. Lack of higher education for large demographic groups... oh yeah, and also knowing that every weirdo who was never questioned about anything can buy an AR-15 and use for anger management purposes.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Americans-live-in-fear

You need a google or facebook account to read the related questions and anwers...

Lets forget the silly, constant BLM boogie man for a moment and look back at 2016. Trump campaigned on fear. Fear of losing whatever manufacturing was left in the US, fear of immigrants, fear of Muslims, fear of empowering women and black people, fear of socialism (which was apparently everywhere as soon as daylight waned), fear of people taking your guns away, fear of a liberalization of society, fear losing status and prestige... and yes, he had this unhealthy, pathological obsession with Obama and Obama's popularity in particular It's almost like he made it his life's goal to destroy anything Obama created, being somehow an abomination in his mind. The better and more popular, the more effort was put into destroying it. **** envy much maybe?

 

As for the bullet points:

1) The fear of "socialism" never left the McCarthy area (the 50's). It's like a cultural, collective memory thing, where there is absolutely no reasoning. If it gets labeled 'socialist', its inherently bad, regardless of any truth of such a statement. Truth is not important, the unreasoning fear is important (and exploitable by savvy politicians who keeps fanning the flames of fear in that regard).

2) Look at the number of unarmed black people killed by police compared to the number of unarmed white people? Look at the job opportunities in different layers of society? (not just burger flipping or garbage collection), look at how often people of various skin colours have been sentenced to life in jail or even executed after a death sentence, only to be cleared 20-30 years later by DNA evidence? I'll give you a hint, it's not white people who are dis-proportionally represented.

3) Unless something changes the current trajectory, yes, I think the US is perfectly capable of oscillating between the extremes until some government in the future does away with pretending and assume centralized executive power. Trump failed 2016-2020, but NOT for lack of trying. If not Trump in 2024, somebody else makes a case study of his presidency may succeed. Yes, Trump overtly supported (and was supported) by alt right groups and everything from right wing, armed militias over QAnon to The Klan.

[Chairchucker]

Some of Trump's 'achievements', prior to election and during his tenure:

Calling Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals.

Insulting a prisoner of war for having been captured

Implying a journalist attempting to do her job by asking probing questions was PMSing

Responding to an act of violence carried out by his supporters in his name not by condemning their actions, but by saying that the people following him are very passionate and love this country.

Mocking a reporter about his congenital joint condition

Saying a judge was unable to effectively do his job because of his Mexican heritage.

Bragging that his celebrity status enables him to sexually assault women.

Dismissing bragging about being able to sexually assault women as ‘locker room banter’.

Being the subject of at least 25 separate accusations of sexual misconduct.

Implying that some of his accusers were not attractive enough for him to sexually assault.

Perpetuating the lie that vaccines cause autism.

Asking a black reporter if they can set a meeting up with the Congressional Black Caucus, and if they were friends of hers.

Labelling any unflattering news story as ‘fake news’ and calling those media outlets ‘enemy of the American People’.

Barring those outlets from press conferences.

Implying that in a clash between actual Nazis and Klan members yelling slogans such as ‘Jews will not replace us’ and counter protesters, in which a white supremacist killed one person and injured 19 others with their vehicle, both sides are approximately morally equal, and later saying there were very fine people on both sides.

Calling athletes who peacefully protested against police brutality by kneeling during the national anthem 'sons of bitches' and suggesting they should be fired.

Implying that media outlets who publish what he characterises as ‘fake news’ might lose their media license.

Joking that his vice president wants to kill all gay people.

Sharing anti Muslim videos posted by a member of a hate group.

Suggesting that the USA should accept more refugees from places like Norway or Asia, rather than African nations.

Inspiring a white supremacist website to write that he is more or less on the same page as them with regards to race and immigration.

Suggesting it was treasonous not to applaud his speeches.

Using a school shooting as an opportunity to criticise FBI investigations into himself.

Saying that it was great that China’s president was now President for life, and suggesting that the USA should give that a shot someday.

Siding with the leader of a foreign nation over the leaders of his own intelligence agencies.

Mocking the testimony of a victim of sexual assault.

Praising a congressman for assaulting a reporter.

Suggesting that several congresswomen of colour who are American citizens, three of whom were born in the USA, should go back to their own country.

Repeatedly downplaying the dangers of a global pandemic.

Suggesting the use of untested drugs against the advice of medical professionals.

Withholding pandemic aid from states with governors that aren’t ‘grateful enough’.

Calling on protestors to violate lockdowns.

Publicly speculating about the possible effectiveness of eating or injecting disinfectant to fight a virus.

Suggesting he has been treated worse than presidents who were assassinated.

Calling a congresswoman ‘Shamu’ and suggesting that she visited every buffet restaurant in the state.

Suggesting that a 75 year old peace activist, hospitalised after being shoved by police officers, ‘could be an ANTIFA provocateur’.

Sharing a video of one of his supporters yelling ‘white power’.

Saying he might not accept the results of an election if he loses.

Sending well wishes to someone who was arrested on charges of aiding a sex offender.

Calling someone pathetic for accurately saying that a pandemic is widespread.

Suggesting that a police officer mistakenly using deadly force is similar to a golfer missing a putt.

Encouraging people to vote twice.

Refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he lost an election.

Ridiculing a political opponent for heeding the advice of scientists.

Saying that people who tried to run a campaign bus of his political rival off the road ‘did nothing wrong’.

Falsely declaring himself the winner of an election.

Falsely claiming that election fraud has been committed.

Urging a crowd at a rally to march to the capitol.

Telling the crowd, after they commit domestic terrorism by entering the capitol building, erecting a gallows with the apparent intent to hang his Vice President, entering senate chambers and looting several items, ‘We love you. You’re very special’.

Continuing, despite his words already having inspired a right wing terrorist attack on the capitol building, to utter the same rhetoric to cause that attack.

Trying to have his Vice President overturn the election.

 

Now, the reason I have listed these as 'achievements', is that it is my contention that many of his supporters voted for him in the most recent election not in spite of these things, but because of them. Trump is a terrible human being, and fortunately for him, there are a large  number of similarly awful human beings who are excited to be represented by an openly garbage human being.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Gorth said:

You are as bad as McCarthy area USA when it comes to BLM. You see them everywhere the same way the McCarthyists saw communists hiding behind each street lamp and behind each window curtain, ready to tear America apart!

The word is 'paranoia' I think... in a society where poverty is a crime, sometimes punishable by death if you have the wrong skin colour and politicians threatens their children with the commies comming and taking them if they don't eat their dinner, people live fearful lives. Add to that a very badly functioning healthcare system for decades (one of the worlds most overpriced and inefficient ones), the lack of workers protection, the lack of security if you lose a job, making many people working 2-3 jobs at a time (making the statistics look nice, but in truth the US workforce is under-employed (and often grossly underpaid). Lack of mental health care. Lack of social welfare. Lack of higher education for large demographic groups... oh yeah, and also knowing that every weirdo who was never questioned about anything can buy an AR-15 and use for anger management purposes.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Americans-live-in-fear

You need a google or facebook account to read the related questions and anwers...

Lets forget the silly, constant BLM boogie man for a moment and look back at 2016. Trump campaigned on fear. Fear of losing whatever manufacturing was left in the US, fear of immigrants, fear of Muslims, fear of empowering women and black people, fear of socialism (which was apparently everywhere as soon as daylight waned), fear of people taking your guns away, fear of a liberalization of society, fear losing status and prestige... and yes, he had this unhealthy, pathological obsession with Obama and Obama's popularity in particular It's almost like he made it his life's goal to destroy anything Obama created, being somehow an abomination in his mind. The better and more popular, the more effort was put into destroying it. **** envy much maybe?

 

As for the bullet points:

1) The fear of "socialism" never left the McCarthy area (the 50's). It's like a cultural, collective memory thing, where there is absolutely no reasoning. If it gets labeled 'socialist', its inherently bad, regardless of any truth of such a statement. Truth is not important, the unreasoning fear is important (and exploitable by savvy politicians who keeps fanning the flames of fear in that regard).

2) Look at the number of unarmed black people killed by police compared to the number of unarmed white people? Look at the job opportunities in different layers of society? (not just burger flipping or garbage collection), look at how often people of various skin colours have been sentenced to life in jail or even executed after a death sentence, only to be cleared 20-30 years later by DNA evidence? I'll give you a hint, it's not white people who are dis-proportionally represented.

3) Unless something changes the current trajectory, yes, I think the US is perfectly capable of oscillating between the extremes until some government in the future does away with pretending and assume centralized executive power. Trump failed 2016-2020, but NOT for lack of trying. If not Trump in 2024, somebody he makes a case study of his presidency may succeed. Yes, Trump overtly supported (and was supported) by alt right groups and everything from right wing, armed militias over QAnon to The Klan.

Gorthfuscious this is an excellent response with exactly the details I was looking for  and it allows  me to understand what your concerns are and what you mean. Since 9/11 I have been involved in many debates about the US and the important role it plays in the world and I sometimes come across anti-US sentiment in SA on our talk shows which matter to me because they about our SA journey to address Apartheid legacy and first world country....it is possible but it requires an exorbale set of policies and government integrity but thats way off but it is a future objective 

You have made  several interesting points that I want to respond to and I will later but I wanted to ask you something about your general view on the US right now in the sense what do you like and appreciate about the US

Do you have a more positive view or negative based on overall sentiment ?