Politics XXXVI (will catch up to superbowls soon)

[Volourn]

"Seems like bad faith to claim protesters are all complicit in such killings, but I don't have galaxy brain so what do I know. "

Seems like bad faith to claim police are all complicit in such killings, but I don't have galazy brain so what do I know.

 

 And, don't ell me people aren't claiming that. People are aiming to shut the police completely down, are targeting all police for the actions of a small minority. Huporcisy much.

 

Other deaths in this riots include that one girl's sister who was also a protestor and decided it was getting to violent and tried to leave but before she could she got killed.

 

There are peaceful protestors.

There are violent 'protestors'.

There are good cops.

There are bad cops.

 

HOW 'BUT SOME EPRSONAL REPSONSIBILITY.

 

And, most importantly, how about them ****ty mayors and governors? Pure garbage. They are failures and every death, every bit of destruction being cause is on their heads. They WANTED IT. THEY ENCOURAGED IT. The death of the black cops are directly due to  the mayors and governors  (lack of) actions and encouragement.

[Raithe]

Time - Watchdogs Say Assaults on Journalists Covering Protests Is on a 'Scale That We Have Not Seen Before'

 

Between May 26 to June 3, the tracker received more than 279 claims of violations to press freedom—claims that can range from physical assault, arrest, damage or seizure of equipment, and several other additional criteria. Those overseeing the tracker have documented 100 to 150 claims per year for the past three years. But the past few days alone investigators have been handling more than that average.

[Gorgon]

I missed the revolution apparently. Huge demo in Copenhagen. I encourage the confrontation with systemic racism and such, but generally adverse to marching in the same direction as everyone else. 

I don't envy the cops in the US these days, but their track record is not particularly good either.  Still, best be careful not to throw them all under the bus or you are going to be stuck with Trump's mystery paramilitary goons. 

 

 

[Guard Dog]

If they want to de-fund the police go right ahead. It will be "the Purge" every night of the year. Works for me though. I'm one of those crazy, heavily armed, anti-government prepper types anyway. Go ahead and cut your own throats. I'll be just fine. 

[Keyrock]

While I'm not going to be quite as dramatic as GD, I agree that de-funding police is an awfully shortsighted "solution".

[Gfted1]

I love watching poorly thought out, knee-jerk reactions, play out. Weapons, equipment, buildings...those are already sunk costs. "Defunding" will only result in losing the boots on the ground. Just wait for the cacophonic qq-ing the next time tings go sideways and nobody comes to the rescue. "Waaaa, why didnt the police come save us!"

[Volourn]

Even better is when the anti cop protestors start whining for people to call the cops...

[Gorth]

Defunding (not even a real word, is it?) is the most moronic thing I've heard in a long while. If anything, they need more funds and a way to ensure they get better spent.

 

Apparently addressing mental health issues, training, more training and vetting (even among force veterans) seems to be some sorely neglected things in the police forces.

[Malcador]

Think the more reasonable demand is to just adjust the spending on cops versus other areas, with an eye to prevention as it seems they eat up a large amount of budgets in some of these cities. But I guess the cops will scare people and throw a tantrum if they try to cut that.

 

 

[Hurlshort]

The more reasonable defunding measures seems to be more aimed at getting rid of the expensive military type equipment. APC's, for example. Seems a bit unlikely. I tend to agree that I would rather that funding be directed to proper training, accountability, and counseling.

[Elerond]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

If they want to de-fund the police go right ahead. It will be "the Purge" every night of the year. Works for me though. I'm one of those crazy, heavily armed, anti-government prepper types anyway. Go ahead and cut your own throats. I'll be just fine. 

I can understand that there maybe reason to check police's budgets in cities like Los Angeles, where their budget is over 50% of city's budget and size of their budget is on same level or higher than military budget of some Nato countries with population two or three times larger. LA's police departments budget is about three times higher than budget of all police departments in Finland.

[Gfted1]

And 2-6x the crime rate.  

Crime in Finland.

Crime in Los Angeles.

[Keyrock]

8 minutes ago, Gorth said:

(by comparison, Los Angeles' 6.3 per 100,000 population is like completely off the charts, like some dystopian horror movie)

If you've ever had the displeasure of having to drive through the Los Angeles metropolitan area, "dystopian horror" might be too mild a term. Also:

 

[Gorth]

I somehow managed to delete my original post which you just quoted, trying to delete an attached screenshot that refused to go away

[Orogun01]

25 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I somehow managed to delete my original post which you just quoted, trying to delete an attached screenshot that refused to go away

If moderators exists and are all powerful could they post a post that even them could not moderate?

[Malcador]

Sounds like a microcosm of the DoD.

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

The more reasonable defunding measures seems to be more aimed at getting rid of the expensive military type equipment. APC's, for example. Seems a bit unlikely. I tend to agree that I would rather that funding be directed to proper training, accountability, and counseling.

Buying excess military stuff is a bit of a trap- it's pretty cheap to buy but extremely expensive to maintain (which is partly why it's cheap to buy, of course). Ultimately it's to do with 'tough on crime' rhetoric being popular with voters in most places and you can't visually get much more 'tough on crime' than cruising around in a vehicle designed to survive being blown up by an IED in Iraq even if it has a gallons per mile stat instead of miles per gallon one.

[majestic]

Hm, only our counter terrorism unit has APCs, and they're pretty much MAN trucks modified to be able to withstand assault rifle fire. They're no worse than regular trucks in terms of maintenance, well, perhaps a little, but they can be repaired and serviced at every regular MAN depot. Also very much not used to cruise around or appear tough.

[Skarpen]

I would watch that show:

https://biker-news.com/2020/06/07/hells-angels-and-mongols-allegedly-teamed-up-to-throw-antifa-out-of-the-city-in-placerville-california.html

[Gromnir]

police militarization is not a new board issue, but we keep having same debates. particular following the great recession, when local police departments were experiencing severe budget shortfalls, cost issues o' militarization appeared less than wise, especial given how such militarization plays to cameras during inevitable eventual crisis. honest, after 2011 financial crisis, we thought many departments had decided voluntarily to reduce militarization 'cause o' cost issues, but is too many folks getting palms liberal greased during such transactions for military grade hardware and resulting maintenance contracts to end the idiocy complete. am suspicious o' a 2020 change. too much money.

defund cops however, is kinda newish, but may not be as crazy as it sounds... although still crazy/stupid when done w/o a plan and simple as a knee jerk response. am knowing with michael brown and george floyd we has stressed how just how many police departments we got nationally in the USA. am also having noted the multiplicity o' such departments for same jurisdictions. states invariable have state police and counties have sheriffs. got an accident or crime committed on highway 16 in CA, which is a 2-lane country road for much o' its length despite images "highway" might evoke, and you might see chp, sheriff and local township police all showing up at the scene. if is an officer involved shooting, then state police could be called in as well. particular for european folks hearing o' defund police, there is inevitable confusion 'bout what such impact would have on citizenry in terms o' police coverage. defund ferguson or even la city police doesn't necessarily mean less police response in ferguson or la city. state and county police forces exist simultaneous in same jurisdictions with defunding municipalities and they arguable may take up the slack o' defunded city.

municipalities brazen defunding police is an easy move for many cash strapped city mayors who love an excuse to remove a huge cost from their budgets while simultaneous leaving impression with many angry voters that they is doing such 'cause o' concerns regarding police violence and racism. as with so many issues, "follow the money" is always a good rule o' thumb when trying to explain government action. 'course defund cops looks much different from perspective o' elected sheriffs who is most immediate gonna be left taking up the slack when municipal police sudden reduce their footprint in an area. apoplectic fury? open weeping? sheriff reactions to mayors promise to defund are no doubt mixed and colorful.

however, get rid o' some o' the overlap resulting from seeing as many as 4 and 5 police bodies all having arguable jurisdiction for a crime in a city is not inherent bad. each police department has own standards and training and each police body is likely to investigate itself whenever there is an initial issue o' cop excess. such multiplicity is part o' what is making uniform training standards and reporting guidelines so impractical regardless o' legal issues. even if every sane person were to wake up tomorrow and agree police need make arguable improvements to police training, reporting and self-investigation, implementing such changes become a complete charlie fox when rational implementation o' such changes is considered. 

regardless, defund police is another one o' those issues which is a bit more complex than it may appear to be at first blush... although precise 'cause is so complex it is admitted brodenagian stoopid when such changes is made w/o reflection and planning.

HA! Good Fun!

ps most social change is stoopid when viewed practical. is why is so important for young people to be involved in the political process. young folks unknowing and/or uncaring o' practical costs will demand change. as concerned as is Gromnir 'bout stoopid young people demanding the impossible and unreasonable, am glad those young and dumb is the voice o' optimistic unreasonable. "all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

Edited June 8, 2020 by Gromnir
ps

[Skarpen]

That's a nice gesture:

http://mwakilishi.com/article/diaspora-news/2020-06-07/african-americans-who-feel-unwanted-in-the-us-invited-to-settle-in-ghana?cid=h

[Raithe]

For that little out of time...  Rod Serling rips Loyalty Oaths, the Vietnam War, and Social Inequity

I would rather have a son or daughter of mine march through the streets of Chicago protesting injustice—than I would siring a Chicago policeman who’ll club anyone who’ll get in his way—and that includes sixteen-year-olds, newspaper photographers, and senior citizens.

And if anyone wants to raise the spectre of “provocation”—I say this categorically.  There is no provocation extant short of a motive of self defense to excuse as representative of law and order wading in with a billy-club under the pretense of saving the sovereign city of Chicago.  Of the four hundred young people currently held under arraignment for so-called assault and battery, half of them are under eighteen and half of those under a hundred and twenty pounds.

Suddenly we are a nation whose new battle slogan is law and order.  Last year it won countless numbers of elections.  It’s the great new American euphemism.  Law and Order.  It is now interchangeable with God, Motherhood, the Constitution and the Holy Grail.  But how empty and how suspect is this sloganry when it points up the incredible selectivity on the part of America’s citizenry—how picky and choosey they are when it comes to moral outrage.

 

[Guard Dog]

Minneapolis is disbanding it's police dept. Well... this ought to be interesting! 

Hey I am NO fan of the police in general. They are the epitome of "necessary evil" in their best form and intolerable evil in their worst. But to go without or replace them with unarmed "social workers"? Let's put it this way... If I lived in Minneapolis I'm buying guns and LOTS of ammo today. I'd say get a carry permit but f--k that. No one will be around to arrest you for carrying concealed soon! 

[Skarpen]

Socialist circle of life:

[Gromnir]

city council voted to defund and disband. is not same as disbanding. city charter requires police, so to actual disband, particular by city council vote over protests o' mayor, there likely needs be a public vote. council vote is a political publicity stunt.

as an aside, am recalling when the minneapolis hoopla over defund started, the local sheriff said he wouldn't help unless a plan were developed to deal with consequences o' defunding... which didn't happen. defund ain't an end o' days scenario for cop presence in minneapolis, but some kinda thought as to what happens in the near and far future is required.

regardless, is all theatre at this point, and the nutters buying out local ammo supplies and arming themselves for the inevitable apocalypse in the face o' such imaginary drama is not gonna help the problem. sheesh.

HA! Good Fun!