Politics XXXV (Life in the Vault is about to change)

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Does this mean we can set him adrift?

is predictable trump will now spin similar stories as fake news by media. the real problem is democrats and liberal media are complete misrepresenting trump and in a time o' crisis they focus on a movie reference rather than the important issues. 

freaking inside-out and bassackwards and yet +30% of the US population will reflexive agree.

"every country has the government it deserves."

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

Whenever people complain about Trump not being presidential I wonder if they know about my favorite president: Andrew "Old hickory cane" Jackson

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Still don't agree with this simply because there's no way to know that these people would have voted D or if they'd have voted at all. But we've discussed this quite a bit already over the years.

I'd disagree with it for a completely different reason- it absolves the Democrat Party for selecting a rubbish candidate, and Hillary for losing to Trump. Fundamentally, in a democratic system you're not obligated to vote for rubbish just because garbage is worse; and doing so is precisely how you make sure that you will always be presented with two bad choices. That approach also destroys confidence in your political system far more effectively than anything else, nothing breeds indifference like being told you have to vote for two choices neither of which you want.

Hillary lost to Trump. She lost because she didn't get enough votes where it counted. If she'd have run a competent campaign and been a better and more appealing candidate she'd have won. Those who voted for someone they actually wanted over someone they didn't should take no blame; those giving it to them don't actually believe in a free vote, they believe in a controlled one.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Zoraptor

[Gromnir]

45 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

Whenever people complain about Trump not being presidential I wonder if they know about my favorite president: Andrew "Old hickory cane" Jackson

andrew jackson, unlike trump, were an experienced statesman o' unquestioned courage and patriotism. fact jackson were arguably unhinged and enjoying a bit too much o' the ultraviolent from time-to-time were not well known by the public as media were a bit different in those days. even so, unlike trump, jackson were genuine popular and advocating for the common man during a Presidency in which he, relative speaking, displayed competence if not remarkable levels o' such. much different than trump. even so, compare worst aspects o' andrew jackson to trump is not benefiting corporal bone spurs.

btw, even andy knew he needed Congress to vote to end the nullification crisis-- were no declaration o' total authority.

HA! Good Fun!

ps invoke trail of tears is typical enough nowadays to have most folks label jackson as a villain in US history.  

[ShadySands]

I'm more than slightly disturbed that Andrew Jackson is anyone's favorite president, everyone knows Arthur is the best, then again I'm also very disturbed by people who list Picard and Discovery as their favorite Trek series. Am willing to admit I'm likely the problem here.

Edited April 15, 2020 by ShadySands

[ShadySands]

9 hours ago, ktchong said:

Xi Jinping looks like Winnie the Pooh

agreed

[Orogun01]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

andrew jackson, unlike trump, were an experienced statesman o' unquestioned courage and patriotism. fact jackson were arguably unhinged and enjoying a bit too much o' the ultraviolent from time-to-time were not well known by the public as media were a bit different in those days. even so, unlike trump, jackson were genuine popular and advocating for the common man during a Presidency in which he, relative speaking, displayed competence if not remarkable levels o' such. much different than trump. even so, compare worst aspects o' andrew jackson to trump is not benefiting corporal bone spurs.

btw, even andy knew he needed Congress to vote to end the nullification crisis-- were no declaration o' total authority.

HA! Good Fun!

ps invoke trail of tears is typical enough nowadays to have most folks label jackson as a villain in US history.  

So the rise in the economy(up until this tragedy) the lowering number of unemployment, increasing our oil production and finally fighting against Chinese hegemony are not the actions of a qualified statesman. You got some high standards buddy.

21 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I'm more than slightly disturbed that Andrew Jackson is anyone's favorite president, everyone knows Arthur is the best, then again I'm also very disturbed by people who list Picard and Discovery as their favorite Trek series. Am willing to admit I'm likely the problem here.

I'm from Florida, Jackson conquered Florida and became it's first governor. Andrew Jackson "the original Florida man".

[Gorth]

After Trumps latest rant, claiming the president is all powerful and has total control of everything, I can't help imagining him sitting in the corner of his bed at night, rocking back and forth in fetal position, wishing he was someone like Xi, Kim or Putin, who has both power and respect (if not loved, then feared by their subjects)

 

 

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, Orogun01 said:

So the rise in the economy(up until this tragedy) the lowering number of unemployment, increasing our oil production and finally fighting against Chinese hegemony are not the actions of a qualified statesman. You got some high standards buddy.

 

the china trade situation has been, at best, a minor win for the US even if there were a larger perception win for trump. perhaps the trump hardline on china strikes you as more impactful if you are one o' the handful o' folks who hasn't yet realized that trump is fool o' p00p when he claims china is paying for tariffs?

and the cost...

U.S. Farm Bankruptcies Surge 24% on Strain From Trump Trade War

gonna point out obvious how most economic gains from three years o' trump, regardless o' who deserves credit, has evaporated in a matter o' a month. p00f. gone. trump ain't responsible for covid-19, but he is at fault for much o' the unnecessary pain resulting from such a slow response. played a lot o' golf and held a bunch o' rallies in february and early march. coulda' been preparing.

yeah, the US economy had been doing well since second half o' obama's second term, but do a search o' Gromnir posts regarding Presidential impact on the economy for our views on such. Presidents have less impact on the economy than they get credit or blame regarding. is typical the next administration which sees benefits or harm from Presidential efforts. given how trump has increased national debt during a period you identify as having positive growth and low unemployment were complete irresponsible and we were gonna need eventual pay for that brobdingnagian stoopidity. we mentioned a few pages back how if trump had been more responsible these past three years, reducing fed spending as 'posed to increasing, he would then be able to brag 'bout his prescience. with trillions o' dollars needing be spent on covid-19 (woulda' been less if trump didn't waste 1.5 months minimizing the pandemic threat and were instead addressing medical needs in anticipation o' increasing inevitable US outbreaks) three years o' traditional conservative fiscal responsibility woulda' been a godsend.

oh, and increasing oil production don't look all that forward thinking at the moment, does it? sure, trump unthinking epa deregulation has potential for severe climate and environmental damage, but even ignoring such, the future is renewable energy as 'posed to oil and beautiful clean burning coal. reduce oil production reliance means current massive shortfall in demand would be less painful.

...

we were considering going down the laundry list o' trump fails, but we would be creating a wall o' text which would exhaust even Gromnir. 

genuine positives from trump? is actual a few. biggest is small business tax breaks resulting from the 2017 tax cut and jobs act. much o' the rest o' the hastily penned tax cut were lacking wisdom and has not resulted in the growth trump insisted woulda' paid for the cuts, a shortfall the CBO predicted btw. regardless, small business win is good. kudos. one o' a few. have admitted from time-to-time how we didn't disagree with the President, but no signature issue or program. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I'm more than slightly disturbed that Andrew Jackson is anyone's favorite president

From Americans online, shouldn't come as a shock

[Orogun01]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

After Trumps latest rant, claiming the president is all powerful and has total control of everything, I can't help imagining him sitting in the corner of his bed at night, rocking back and forth in fetal position, wishing he was someone like Xi, Kim or Putin, who has both power and respect (if not loved, then feared by their subjects)

 

 

Thanks to Obama that is actually true of the US, the president can use emergency status to bypass approvals. It still not on the same level as a dictatorship but one step too close for comfort.

[Orogun01]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

the china trade situation has been, at best, a minor win for the US even if there were a larger perception win for trump. perhaps the trump hardline on china strikes you as more impactful if you are one o' the handful o' folks who hasn't yet realized that trump is fool o' p00p when he claims china is paying for tariffs?

and the cost...

U.S. Farm Bankruptcies Surge 24% on Strain From Trump Trade War

gonna point out obvious how most economic gains from three years o' trump, regardless o' who deserves credit, has evaporated in a matter o' a month. p00f. gone. trump ain't responsible for covid-19, but he is at fault for much o' the unnecessary pain resulting from such a slow response. played a lot o' golf and held a bunch o' rallies in february and early march. coulda' been preparing.

yeah, the US economy had been doing well since second half o' obama's second term, but do a search o' Gromnir posts regarding Presidential impact on the economy for our views on such. Presidents have less impact on the economy than they get credit or blame regarding. is typical the next administration which sees benefits or harm from Presidential efforts. given how trump has increased national debt during a period you identify as having positive growth and low unemployment were complete irresponsible and we were gonna need eventual pay for that brobdingnagian stoopidity. we mentioned a few pages back how if trump had been more responsible these past three years, reducing fed spending as 'posed to increasing, he would then be able to brag 'bout his prescience. with trillions o' dollars needing be spent on covid-19 (woulda' been less if trump didn't waste 1.5 months minimizing the pandemic threat and were instead addressing medical needs in anticipation o' increasing inevitable US outbreaks) three years o' traditional conservative fiscal responsibility woulda' been a godsend.

oh, and increasing oil production don't look all that forward thinking at the moment, does it? sure, trump unthinking epa deregulation has potential for severe climate and environmental damage, but even ignoring such, the future is renewable energy as 'posed to oil and beautiful clean burning coal. reduce oil production reliance means current massive shortfall in demand would be less painful.

...

we were considering going down the laundry list o' trump fails, but we would be creating a wall o' text which would exhaust even Gromnir. 

genuine positives from trump? is actual a few. biggest is small business tax breaks resulting from the 2017 tax cut and jobs act. much o' the rest o' the hastily penned tax cut were lacking wisdom and has not resulted in the growth trump insisted woulda' paid for the cuts, a shortfall the CBO predicted btw. regardless, small business win is good. kudos. one o' a few. have admitted from time-to-time how we didn't disagree with the President, but no signature issue or program. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Man, I miss the old BCC code I could just have broken my reply into direct bits.

The China trade situation has allowed other players in the global market to compete with China's manufacturing, China isn't paying tariffs because manufacturing is moving out of China. Which is a huge win since giving a Communist power all of our manufacturing has proven lethal, as this current epidemic proves. If you think that the reason to make China pay tariffs is purely economical then you need to pay more attention to the world

The slow response has to do with the W.H.O and China lying about the number of infected as well as the political situation in the US. W.H.O is clearly in China's pocket, China undereported the severity of this virus. Meanwhile Cuomo and Pelosi were telling New Yorkers to not be racist and go to ChinaTown to celebrate the Lunar New Year, yet they don't get blasted like Trump does.

The economy saw a clear boom under Trump largely due to his tax cuts on companies as well as a reduction in illegal immigrant workforce. That wasn't a leftover from Obama's. The national debt increase is a result of trying to restore the American economy and will subsequently pay for itself.

Foreign Oil dependence is a bad thing, if the current Oil wars that threaten to further destabilize the World's economy does anything is prove how we need to be self sufficient. I do agree that nuclear energy should replace more of our production but there are safety considerations. BTW what renewable energy are you talking about? Most are in their infancy and can't yield anything worth spit.

Also, this has indeed been good fun.

[Guard Dog]

Kudos to Trump for stopping the US funding of the WHO. It irritates me to no end knowing my hard earned money is going to any organization like that. If anyone feels bad about that please feel free to write them a check yourself rather than taking the money I earned and giving it to them. 

[ktchong]

Back in 2016, only two professors, Helmut Norpoth and Allan Lichtman, went against all the polls and pundits and prevalent predictions that Hillary would defeat Trump in a landslide. Using different models, both Norpoth and Lichtman predicted that Trump would defeat Hillary, win the election and become the president.

Professor Helmut Norpoth has just updated his “Primary Model” and released his prediction for the 2020 election:

“91-95% Certain Trump Will Be Re-elected”

Link: http://primarymodel.com/2020

Edited April 15, 2020 by ktchong

[Gromnir]

so the trade war with china weren't 'bout economics. what a relief. wait. what?

US overseas manufacturing needs had already been expanding beyond china borders before the start o' the trade war in part 'cause o' increasing labor shortfalls in china which will only get worse in the next few years. vietnam and cambodia were already becoming a new nexus for manufacturing which has only accelerated. that said, if not economics but principle were the selling point, then all those US farmers and and other business has paid a heavy price w/o knowing what they were actual fighting for, eh?

is not binary. were not trump's trade war or nothing. am agreeing china has been a bad actor for a long time, but the trade war has cost the US billions and hurt businesses most vulnerable. trump had no plan. period.  that's should be in quotes. "i have no plan right now, and "i have second thoughts about everything," were quotes from trump last summer. at g7 last year, trump were asked at if he had second thoughts ' bout escalating the trade war with china and his rambling and nonsensical responses were as follows:

"Yeah, sure why not. Might as well. Might as well."

...

what?

and blame WHO, china and pelosi for trump's pandemic slow walking is idiotic as trump had dire warnings, at the latest, in january. did nothing for six weeks After the travel limits. not ban. so trump applauds xi for transparency on  january 24 but fails to heed warnings from his own intelligence folks and healthcare experts, and somehow, this is WHO fault? or pelosi? trump played golf and had rallies for a month and a half after credible warnings and signs o' asymptomatic community spread and your excuse is the real nogoodniks is WHO, china and pelosi. deflection.pathetic deflection. yeah, china lied and WHO were not aggressive enough, but pass the buck when trump knew is hardly convincing. 

raise hand if you were surprised china lied 'bout an emerging pandemic threat? anybody? 

nobody. nevertheless, trump gets a pass? please.

the only thing you mention insofar as trump actions as the reason for a boosted economy is the tax cut and no, the boosted economy won't pay for itself. that were the point 'bout the CBO growth projections post tax cut. to pay for the tax cut woulda' required sustained growth far greater than we were seeing. trump overestimated growth by a whole bunch.

Visualizing the huge difference in the White House economic projections versus the CBO’s and Wall Street’s

growth rates post tax cut were almost exact what CBO predicted previous to tax cut and far short o' the wh estimates. trump, to sell tax cut, were predicting sustained 4% and that never happened. even before covid-19 there were a big drop-off in 2019 ending at less than 2% in the last quarter with projections o' sub 2% being norm post 2021. 

trump sold you debt, but don't feel bad, he did same with all his casino investors so you are in good (albeit foolish) company.

btw, germany has better than 40% o' its energy needs fulfilled by renewable sources. the US? ~17%. yeah, large cargo ships is gonna continue to be powered by diesel for the foreseeable future, but other nations has made the transition to renewable sources much more effective and efficient than has the US. funny part is much o' the ai tech which makes renewable work elsewhere is pioneered in the US, but then doesn't see use save as oversized science experiments. renewable reduces dependence on foreign oil btw. thought that were obvious. we use oil and coal and gas 'cause current it is cheap and also to continue to support those industries. isn't 'cause renewable cannot replace much o' the current need for petro. 

and again, these are your High points?

lordy.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 15, 2020 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

 BTW what renewable energy are you talking about? Most are in their infancy and can't yield anything worth spit.

Also, this has indeed been good fun.

Renewable energy CAN work if the will is there... mind you, it's still only half and it doesn't account for a fleet of cars that still mostly fossil fuel driven (sorry Tesla)

Ironically, Denmark is a net exporter of oil, so it's not like they don't have their own oil supply from the North Sea.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/denmark-secured-50-of-its-power-supply-from-wind-and-solar-in-2019/

 

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Renewable energy CAN work if the will is there... mind you,

 

obama had big dreams 'bout renewable energy, high speed rail and smart grids. he didn't follow through but is noteworthy he simultaneous got hit with a fracking boom which woulda' required a whole lotta will to slow... and orogun would have us seeming give trump credit for the fracking boom which happened during the obama years, so go figure. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[ShadySands]

You guys aren't taking into account the massive healthcare costs that windmills will create when everyone has cancer.

[Bartimaeus]

Oh, all of us Americans have a cancer all right...

[Gromnir]

38 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

You guys aren't taking into account the massive healthcare costs that windmills will create when everyone has cancer.

and what about the birds? 

now that prince has passed, why is trump the one who must need listen when doves cry?

HA! Good Fun!

Edited April 15, 2020 by Gromnir
link fail

[Skazz]

40 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

You guys aren't taking into account the massive healthcare costs that windmills will create when everyone has cancer.

Spoiler

 

[Guard Dog]

With regards to green energy all I'm going to say is from December to March I did not owe the power co-op a nickel. My bill in April was $31.50. Of course how green will it be when I have to recycle those batteries in three more years? Replacement costs are also a factor. They cost a little over $1k for both strings. But they last 10 years (supposedly)

[Guard Dog]

One thought on China. You all realize I'm sure there IS something YOU can do about them right? And it's very easy. Do not buy products made in China. If you can help it do not buy products whose components came from China. You can't control what China does. You can't control what your governments do. You sure as hell cannot tell other people what to do. But you CAN control what YOU do. Not everything in the world is made there. Read the label, do you homework, buy products from somewhere else. Anywhere else. If it means you pay more, then pay more. If it mean buying an off brand, then buy the off brand. No one can tell you how to spend YOUR money (whatever your goddamned government deigned for you to keep of it). 

Do this, keep doing it, persuade others to do so and you can hurt China. I've been doing it for years. 

[Gorth]

32 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

One thought on China. You all realize I'm sure there IS something YOU can do about them right? And it's very easy. Do not buy products made in China. If you can help it do not buy products whose components came from China. You can't control what China does. You can't control what your governments do. You sure as hell cannot tell other people what to do. But you CAN control what YOU do. Not everything in the world is made there. Read the label, do you homework, buy products from somewhere else. Anywhere else. If it means you pay more, then pay more. If it mean buying an off brand, then buy the off brand. No one can tell you how to spend YOUR money (whatever your goddamned government deigned for you to keep of it). 

Do this, keep doing it, persuade others to do so and you can hurt China. I've been doing it for years. 

I wish it was that simple, I really do. Last time I went shopping for cutlery (I know, I got two hands, but... spoons are much better at liquid stuff), I had a choice between about 30 different sets from 4 different brands. All made in China (and obviously made at the lowest possible cost, judging by the quality of the manufacture and the finish of the sets).

Luckily I still have a few oldies brought with me from Europe, made 30 years ago in Germany. Unlike the so called "stainless steel" cutlery from China, the 3 decades old German stuff actually doesn't rust. The made in China stuff looks like it's ready for the scrap heap after a single trip to the dishwasher.

Would I prefer to buy more of the old German stuff? You bet, but no department stores or home whatever stores carries those ranges, only the lowest possible cost stuff.

If anything, you can blame history for having led us to a situation where people don't really much of a real choice, it's digging the hole deeper or eat with your hands.

 

Edit: I did mention a while back, I believe that unregulated capitalism leads to no choice at too high prices for what you get (monopolies).

 

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Kudos to Trump for stopping the US funding of the WHO. It irritates me to no end knowing my hard earned money is going to any organization like that. If anyone feels bad about that please feel free to write them a check yourself rather than taking the money I earned and giving it to them. 

Enjoy your $1.50.