Politics XXXIV (Politics never changes)

[Skarpen]

Agree. In Poland now we have unconstitutional bans and restrictions that can only be applied in a state of emergency. But the government refuses to implement state of emergency because they don't want to postpone presidential elections. Civil rights spokeman is filing complaints about this.

They also shoehorned a change to election laws in the so called "crisis shield" which is directly violating constitution. 

But you know what? Many people think this is just fine and dandy because we have an emergency. Missing the point that doing things by the book would take exactly the same amount of time. 

This will not lead to anything good in the long run.

[Hurlshort]

7 hours ago, Gromnir said:

 

decades hence, school children will look back at 2020 and lament how the government took civil liberties away from people in violation o' the Constitution. just like patriot act. just like korematsu. just like... etc. gotta break the cycle. gotta recognize it is The People demanding safety and security and offering freedom up on the pyre as a sacrifice. yeah, trump and others is gonna grab for power for self interest, but biggest threat is your neighbors and the guy in the mirror. 

HA! Good Fun!

If it makes you feel better, I just made a current events assignment for my 7th graders out of your post. We've already covered habeas corpus this year, so hopefully this will hit home for them.

Hardest part of writing the assignment was not making the stimulus package sound like a blatant payoff for our civil liberties. I mean, I don't mind them making the connection, but I don't want to make it for them.

[pmp10]

8 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Agree. In Poland now we have unconstitutional bans and restrictions that can only be applied in a state of emergency. But the government refuses to implement state of emergency because they don't want to postpone presidential elections. Civil rights spokeman is filing complaints about this.

It would also allow far greater restrictions in freedoms - how about some outright media censorship?
As for the essential civil rights - these won't save lives and you certainly can't eat them. 
I can't believe you are making me defend the Polish government. 

[Skarpen]

17 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

It would also allow far greater restrictions in freedoms - how about some outright media censorship?
As for the essential civil rights - these won't save lives and you certainly can't eat them. 
I can't believe you are making me defend the Polish government. 

I can't believe you defend Polish government that is directly putting lives in danger right now alongside violating the core of rule of law.

And yes, the essential civil rights DO save lives, always did and always will in the long run. That's why we have them.

[Volourn]

Like I've said before, most people are anti freedom. They only pretend to be pro freedom when it concerns their own freedom. It is all about power, control, and slavery. EVIL.

[Gorgon]

Trumps daily dose of folksy senility is probably going over pretty well. I mean, if that was your only source you could forgive people for thinking the situation was being handled. 

Who wants to bet, despite all the potential for fundamental change, that things are more or less going back to normal in x amount of months with few lessons learned. 

 

[Maedhros]

Trump doesn't want voting to be easy:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus

Edited March 30, 2020 by Maedhros

[Raithe]

Snopes - Trump did threaten tv stations over ad

In late March 2020, U.S. President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign threatened to sue television stations for defamation and warned that their broadcasting licenses could be revoked if they continued to air a campaign advertisement created by Priorities USA Action, a Democratic super PAC.

The ad showed a steep graph of growing coronavirus cases in the U.S., accompanied by audio of public statements made by Trump about the COVID-19 pandemic:

In the March 25 cease-and-desist letter sent to TV stations, Trump campaign attorney Alex Cannon wrote that the ad takes a remark made by Trump during a Feb. 28 Charleston, South Carolina, campaign rally out of context. 

During that event, Trump complained about harsh criticism leveled by Democratic legislators against his administration’s COVID-19 response. Accusing the Democrats of politicizing the pandemic, Trump compared their criticisms to his impeachment by the U.S. House of Representatives in 2019 (which he had consistently dismissed as a “hoax”), stating, “This is their new hoax.” Multiple mainstream news outlets then published articles reporting that Trump had referred to COVID-19 itself as a hoax.

****

We consulted Brendan Fischer, director of the Federal Reform Program at the Campaign Legal Center, a nonprofit organization that works to bolster voter access and reduce the influence of money in politics. Fischer told us that it’s not uncommon for such cease-and-desist letters to be sent out during campaign seasons, though they don’t often end in actual lawsuits.

“A defamation lawsuit is a pretty high bar and it’s pretty rare a campaign would actually succeed in holding a station liable for statements made in a political ad,” Fischer told us. However, “these letters can have a deterrent effect, in some cases a station will take an ad down just so they don’t have to deal with the possibility of litigation.”

What’s unusual in this case, though, is that Trump has threatened to revoke the broadcasting licenses of television stations whose coverage he doesn’t like. “I have to imagine that station owners have at least considered that fact and how to weigh it when considering this,” Fischer said.

 

 

[ktchong]

[ComradeYellow]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/54088.htm

Yet the confused administration of President Donald Trump has been doing just this as it fights an invisible foe no one expected. Trump, who dodged US military service using phony doctor certificated about his feet, now shamelessly styles himself ‘a war president.’

This new affectation mirrors Trump’s well-known love of ostentatious displays, military parades, and bombastic talk. When draft-dodgers grow old, they often become flaming warmongers and carriers of the big stick. Fox-TV watching older American men replaced their long faded sexual prowess with calls for martial action by…..the young, of course.

Now, as the coronavirus spreads, our self-proclaimed ‘War Leader’ has drawn his sword to defend endangered America. But Trump can’t decide if he is waging war against a vicious virus or fear itself. For the first two weeks of the epidemic he dismissed it as a ‘hoax’ spread by lefties. It was surprising the Clinton Democrats did not claim the plague was started by Moscow.

When the light of reality put an end to Trump’s Panglossian cheer, the president assumed the costume of doctor in chief and began warning that the ’Wuhan’ virus was very dangerous and likely introduced by foreigners (read Muslims, Chinese and Mexicans). If only his wall had been built.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, ComradeMaster said:

Fox-TV watching older American men replaced their long faded sexual prowess with calls for martial action by…..the young, of course.

This explains so much.

[Guard Dog]

When it comes to politics sooner or later a wise man just has to say screw it and wash his hands of the whole thing. Elections are meaningless when all of the candidates are idiots or otherwise damaged individuals who should never be let anywhere near a position of power. When all of the choices are bad the outcome of every contest is pre-ordained. And it ain’t a good outcome

[Bartimaeus]

Hungary transitions to dictatorship in face of coronavirus crisis? Prime Minister granted unlimited legislative power with no time limit.

[Skazz]

11 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Hungary transitions to dictatorship in face of coronavirus crisis? Prime Minister granted unlimited legislative power with no time limit.

Frankly? I fear that the government here in Poland may want to try to pull off a very similar magic trick.

I feel like this is paving the way for other countries to follow.

[Bartimaeus]

The Trump administration wanted to suspend constitutional rights as well. I pray that the Democrats don't 9/11 ourselves and go along with it again like last time.

[Guard Dog]

8 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

The Trump administration wanted to suspend constitutional rights as well. I pray that the Democrats don't 9/11 ourselves and go along with it again like last time.

They were just mad it didn't happen while they were in control. There is more than a little totalitarian drive in the Democrat Party. A LOT more than a little. The love of liberty does not abide in them. 

Would by tyrants on the left, would be tyrants on the right. There are no "good guys". 

[Bartimaeus]

12 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

They were just mad it didn't happen while they were in control. There is more than a little totalitarian drive in the Democrat Party. A LOT more than a little. The love of liberty does not abide in them. 

Would by tyrants on the left, would be tyrants on the right. There are no "good guys". 

Oh, I know - but even if it's purely for a "I don't want them to be able to do that even though I'd be fine with it if it were my party" rationale, it's important that they ultimately shoot it down. They didn't post 9/11 because of an incredible pressure to "unite" + Bush's insane approval ratings post 9/11. Trump has gotten a big boost in approval ratings himself from coronavirus (lord knows why, he has been somewhere between bad and terrible in his response to the crisis), so I fear that the Democrats will once again not resist in the face of a crisis. Might be one of those times where our extreme polarization may save us, but we'll have to wait and see.

Congress has also been busy trying to push through breaking end-to-end encryption with the EARN IT act. A disaster if they pass that through, too.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Guard Dog]

25 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Oh, I know - but even if it's purely for a "I don't want them to be able to do that even though I'd be fine with it if it were my party" rationale, it's important that they ultimately shoot it down. They didn't post 9/11 because of an incredible pressure to "unite" + Bush's insane approval ratings post 9/11. Trump has gotten a big boost in approval ratings himself from coronavirus (lord knows why, he has been somewhere between bad and terrible in his response to the crisis), so I fear that the Democrats will once again not resist in the face of a crisis. Might be one of those times where our extreme polarization may save us, but we'll have to wait and see.

Congress has also been busy trying to push through breaking end-to-end encryption with the EARN IT act. A disaster if they pass that through, too.

Good point about polarization. God help us all if they ever really started working together! 

[Volourn]

Our Kanadian gvo't has tried to do the same. Trying to take power from the House/Senate.

 

"the ’Wuhan’ virus was very dangerous and likely introduced by foreigners"

Uh. Not likely. It was. By China.  Why try to pretend otherwise?

 

[ktchong]

On 3/26/2020 at 6:27 PM, ktchong said:

 

 

 

[Gromnir]

if your neighbor has a vicious dog and you pretend as if the dog is friendly and tame knowing such ain't true, then when you refuse to change your behaviour and get bit by the dog, predictably, you gotta accept some blame. sure, the dog's owner is no less at fault 'cause you are an obtuse dullard, but you need embrace responsibility for your injuries.

it were years past that bill gates predicted a china born pandemic.

the obama administration warned the incoming administration 'bout the possibility o' a pandemic emerging from china during the transition exercises when trump were moving into the wh.

Is China Ground Zero for a Future Pandemic?

Diseases like Ebola and avian flu are some of the biggest threats to global security — and lack of funding puts the US at risk

many people with expertise saw this coming. HOWEVER, another sars kinda coronavirus were actual one o' the lesser concerns. is literal millions o' coronaviruses and almost none o' them pose a threat to humans. given chinese resistance to consuming less than "fresh" meat, and the huge populations o' china which is not particular spread out 'cross their geography, the dangers o' a pandemic spreading from china were well documented. even so, the likelihood o' a lethal coronavirus making the leap from some wild critter in a market in china or elsewhere, while recognized, were considered a lesser danger. in retrospect, the coronavirus threat were underappreciated, but is easy to point fingers in march 2020. 

yes, china hid the dangers o' covid-19 from their own people and the world.  even so, in january 2020 the US government were getting strong intelligence reports confirming that the predicted nightmare scenario o' a pandemic o' chinese origin were already happening. fact folks here in north america, including kanada and mexico, reacted so slow in spite o' forewarning is arguable criminal negligent. 

am not giving china a free pass. china badness does not absolve trump or trudeau. 

oh, and when this is all past, if we as a species pretend as if the danger is past and ignore the future danger from the next global pandemic, then we deserve what lies ahead. even if china closes every wild animal market, their poultry and pork production is gonna continue to represent an existential threat.  oh, and americans don't get a free pass from Gromnir. US domestic animal production is gonna need serious attention in the coming years if we wanna prevent a north american born pandemic, but please read the 2017 smithsonian article we linked.

we got lucky with covid-19. am knowing how callous that sounds, but covid-19, as bad as it is, coulda' been a far more lethal disease. we are lucky 'cause we are getting a chance to fix our mistakes. blame entire on china may make vol feel better, but if such vindication means US and kanada reacts with insufficient vigor in preparing for the next pandemic, then it is utter misguided and unacceptable dangerous.

woulda' kept this in the other thread, but am responding to vol.

Trump says he wouldn't have acted differently on coronavirus without impeachment

what a cheap and cowardly dodge.  surprising he is adopting this argument as it suggests weakness, no?

HA! Good Fun!

[ComradeYellow]

Yes taking a close look at the cattle that McDonald's uses in their burgers will make you vomit.  I'm wondering how many airborne viruses are created by the American meat industry.

[Bartimaeus]

I'm shocked he didn't say the opposite to deflect blame ("I was too busy defending myself from the impeachment to realize what a risk it was!"). Of course, he may not have realize that saying the opposite *would* deflect blame - this is Trump we're talking about, after all.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I'm shocked he didn't...

am thinking after +3 years in the wh, the realization trump behaviours and statements is still resulting in shock and dismay is the real surprise. 

'course the issue is not trump. when we attempt to explain the improbability o' trump statements and actions there must need be the recognition the President only indulges in acts o' improbable increasing crudeness, perfidy and pettiness, while displaying a kinda ignorance heretofore unimaginable given his responsibilities, 'cause his base encourages and/or supports him. 

shake head in sorrow and bafflement at the next trump inanity is, in our estimation, misplaced. real shocker for us is how there is no mendoza line for competence or character demanded by the trump base. none. while am recognizing just how polarized is the nation, the willful indifference o' the trump base still manages to disappoint us. more fool is Gromnir, eh?

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Volourn said:

Our Kanadian gvo't has tried to do the same. Trying to take power from the House/Senate.

 

"the ’Wuhan’ virus was very dangerous and likely introduced by foreigners"

Uh. Not likely. It was. By China.  Why try to pretend otherwise?

 

Volo under the circumstances I thinks its best Canada and its citizens accept the temporary suspension of rights and certain Constitutional outcomes.... all Canadians, like most other countries,  should be trusting and supporting your government . These are unusual times and they call for unusual actions from all governments