Why are loading time so long (PS4 Pro + SSD)

[vyvexthorne]

I'd say it mainly has to do with the hardware of the ps4 just showing it's age.   SSD speed doesn't matter since the load time has to do with processing speed and with only 8gb's of shared memory the ps4 is just going to be a bit slow when loading. You have to remember you're playing new games on 7 year old (or if using ps4 pro,) 4 year old hardware.  

For comparison, I just bought a new PC this year.. My old one had hit 8 years old and couldn't even play Poe2.  So the fact that an 7 year old console can somehow play games that a very good 8 year old computer couldn't.. is pretty cool. 

[AwesomeOcelot]

9 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Doesn't a problem lie in loading and streaming high definition 2d images, as opposed to reading data and generating it into on screen graphics an a go? Outerworlds is full 3d and "maps" are generated - while majority Deadfire's maps are high definition pre-rendered images with effects simulated on top of it (lighting etc.). 

I don't think the pre-rendered background vs the real-time rendered terrain should make a difference. If anything it should be easier for Deadfire to load only as much as it needs, then stream it in when required. How big is a pre-rendered background in Deadfire vs the textures that have to be loaded in TOW? I would expect TOW with its much larger maps and textures to be much more data, compared to Deadfire's many but smaller maps.

[Boeroer]

Maybe - but a PoE/Deadfire map is one huge(!) piece of a high res image which gets loaded in one go while a 3D game (even the maps) consists of separated, rel. small 3D objects with textures which all can be loaded separately. Maybe that's the problem. I'm only guessing though. But the fact that a SSD drastically improves loading times is an indication for that.

Afaik pure 3D titles in Unity3D don't have such excessive loading times, do they?

[AwesomeOcelot]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Maybe - but a PoE/Deadfire map is one huge(!) piece of a high res image which gets loaded in one go

That's exactly what I've been saying is the problem, there isn't really the need to load the whole map. Maybe not so much with TOW, but other games have huge mega textures, or high res textures, that would be equally as large. The difference between Deadfire and other modern games, even they have more to load, is that games have been streaming content in the background for a long time. They only have load screens when it's necessary. I don't see why Deadfire couldn't have done it.

[fced]

9 hours ago, IST said:

No worries mate!

I no longer fear opening doors or entering new areas, SUCH a game changer for me!!

Eothas bless the External SSD on PS4!

Please what tip with the SSD ? I saw your post in German, but I am not familiar with German ...
PS : Even with a SSD, I fear opening a door on Deadfire, this is why loading time should really disappear from games, this prevented me to re-play to POE (too much door to open, and load screen - even if I should try it to see if it is better with a SSD)...

Edited February 8, 2020 by fced

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, AwesomeOcelot said:

That's exactly what I've been saying is the problem, there isn't really the need to load the whole map. Maybe not so much with TOW, but other games have huge mega textures, or high res textures, that would be equally as large. The difference between Deadfire and other modern games, even they have more to load, is that games have been streaming content in the background for a long time. They only have load screens when it's necessary. I don't see why Deadfire couldn't have done it.

But Deadfire uses streaming! This was specifically stated after the complaints with PoE's loading times.

The loading times are still quite long it seems. Not for me though (fast SSD and a good PC, running Linux) but to be honest they weren't terrible with PoE on an old laptop without SSD which could run PoE on minimal settings as well.

PS4 seems to have really slow IO. And Unity3D doesn't seem to be optimized in that regard.  

Edited February 8, 2020 by Boeroer

[Wormerine]

14 hours ago, AwesomeOcelot said:

That's exactly what I've been saying is the problem, there isn't really the need to load the whole map. Maybe not so much with TOW, but other games have huge mega textures, or high res textures, that would be equally as large. 

[shrug] On my part, it's speculation of someone who has little knowledge of what happens to make this appear on my monitor. It is not impossible, that PoEs use old kind of technology, for which Unity is simply not built to effectively handle. Whenever the problem lies in approach itself (using high definition chunks of 2nd backgrounds) or in not investing enough in engine that would support this approach I have no idea. PoEs have loading issue, there is no doubt about it. Deadfire improved a lot in that regard, so it is not impossible that it could be improved even further with some smart engine tweaking.

Considering how little space, let's say, Witcher3 takes I am not sure it is true. Another thing which comes to mind is, that a 3d game might use a mix of high and low texture and streams in more details as we get closer to things - even so many objects don't have high quality textures. 

[AwesomeOcelot]

2 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

that a 3d game might use a mix of high and low texture and streams in more details as we get closer to things - even so many objects don't have high quality textures. 

Pretty much all 3D games do that, it's called LOD and includes model complexity and texture mipmapping. It shouldn't effect loading much, but it can be a problem when streaming and LOD are not implementing well on a memory restricted system i.e. consoles, that's why pop-in became such a problem.  I just finished playing the Witcher 3, lots of texture and model reuse in 3D games like this, with some texture and palette swapping. That game looks a hell of a lot better than Deadfire, and it has really fast loading, but also virtually no loading.

[Panda Pandaren]

So... I checked Neketaka loading (save game load): it took 2m 40s. Welp.
I did a database rebuild (took only 3m, while I have only 40GB of free space out of 1TB).
New loading time after the rebuild was exactly the same.

It freezes for long on 40%, 52%, 53% - around 20-25s for each.

I don't see any point of buying an ssd:

• I don't have any similar issues with other games or downloads on my ps4 pro
• ps5 with ssd and backwards compatibility is kinda coming
• buying a game for 60 euro and paying additional 140 for an ssd especially for one game is just a joke.

I guess I will put the game on hold and will wait for ps5.

If anyone is interested in a very boring video of the measurement, here it is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AQfipzUEoiMgw90s43JsBTXsSWDXritd

[IST]

5 hours ago, Panda Pandaren said:

So... I checked Neketaka loading (save game load): it took 2m 40s. Welp.
I did a database rebuild (took only 3m, while I have only 40GB of free space out of 1TB).
New loading time after the rebuild was exactly the same.

It freezes for long on 40%, 52%, 53% - around 20-25s for each.

I don't see any point of buying an ssd:

• I don't have any similar issues with other games or downloads on my ps4 pro
• ps5 with ssd and backwards compatibility is kinda coming
• buying a game for 60 euro and paying additional 140 for an ssd especially for one game is just a joke.

I guess I will put the game on hold and will wait for ps5.

If anyone is interested in a very boring video of the measurement, here it is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AQfipzUEoiMgw90s43JsBTXsSWDXritd

The way I justified not only to myself but to the wife (the T5 SSD purchase *seemingly* for one game) was:

1)  After PS5 drops with all it's SSD glory, I can just format the T5 and it's a spiffy 500GB external for my music (I'm a DJ, so can do some much needed secure SSD backing up).

2)  It makes this glorious game great again, and to me, that was worth the discounted pricetag alone.  Neketaka loads are the longest still on SSD, I'll have to time some but I would say none are over 35 sec or there abouts (15-25 sec for most loads though, the 35 sec guess is the very worst ones I'd say).

Also of note: I got the T5 500GB SSD for $99 (or $89, my memory bit avg) NZD (about $62 USD) on super Waitangi Day sale...so that defo helped in my decision (they retail for $179 normally here).

Edited February 12, 2020 by IST

[IST]

On 2/8/2020 at 11:02 PM, fced said:

Please what tip with the SSD ? I saw your post in German, but I am not familiar with German ...
PS : Even with a SSD, I fear opening a door on Deadfire, this is why loading time should really disappear from games, this prevented me to re-play to POE (too much door to open, and load screen - even if I should try it to see if it is better with a SSD)...

Basically just get any 256GB+ size SSD, format it using the Playstation settings tool, move your game over to the new drive and play from there: way better!

[Gakkie]

I play on PS4 Pro and attached an SSD specifically for this game. SO far lading times are around 40s. I will measure some more load times tonight. I heard that keeping the number of save files to a minimum also keeps load times within acceptable range, so I use 10 save files (001 - 009) which I rotate all the time.

But yes, the load times for entering small interiors is ridiculous ....

[Dyxx]

The loading times are no fun, need smth to do in the meantime.

But I feel that PoE1 was worse

[Gakkie]

Did some checking last night and mostly load times are around 36s-40s for me with the external SSD. I was playing in the districts in Neketaka, so much loading in and out of buildings. An evening's worth of playing ends up looking at loading screens half of the time. And what's worse, the same 4 or 5 tips on the loading screen over and over again. One would think there's enough information to put on there ...

[xzar_monty]

22 minutes ago, Gakkie said:

And what's worse, the same 4 or 5 tips on the loading screen over and over again. One would think there's enough information to put on there ...

That's a really good point. Although it is a minor thing, this is something that I also paid attention to while playing the game. Plenty of games have these tips displayed while loading, but Deadfire is by far and away the least impressive game I've ever seen in this regard. There really are only those four or five tips. I mean, come on!

Edited February 15, 2020 by xzar_monty

[IST]

Putting 100 or so tips on those screens would be a boon for sure

[xzar_monty]

Given the lengthy loading times, they could have put some lore in there as well, in addition to tips. It certainly couldn't have harmed, could it? The way it is now looks just lazy.

[daven]

I never want to see that pic of the party on the boat ever again.

[xzar_monty]

Speaking of which: is it possible for the party to end up in a fight against a huge aquatic monster on the open sea?

[Boeroer]

Nope. That stretch goal was not reached during the crowdfunding campaign.

[Dyxx]

If they would have put lore or more tips in the loading screen we would have had a release in 2021...

Is my sentence grammatical correct, sounds funny ?

[xzar_monty]

Since you ask, it's not correct. With "if", you don't use "would", you use the past perfect. So it should be "If they had put lore or more tips...", and the rest is ok, except that a comma right before "we" would be in order. In the second sentence it should read "grammatically", and "does it sound funny?". It's understandable of course.

You asked!

[Dyxx]

7 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Since you ask, it's not correct. With "if", you don't use "would", you use the past perfect. So it should be "If they had put lore or more tips...", and the rest is ok, except that a comma right before "we" would be in order. In the second sentence it should read "grammatically", and "does it sound funny?". It's understandable of course.

You asked!

Thank you very much !

[ekt0]

The issue is definitely caused by development. It saddens me that no one tries to fix this problem. It would be hard to fix though.

[fced]

On 2/8/2020 at 1:07 AM, IST said:

No worries mate!

I no longer fear opening doors or entering new areas, SUCH a game changer for me!!

Eothas bless the External SSD on PS4!

you are lucky, since i returned on obsidian games, i fear opening any door... It was not the case on AC Odyssey, DOS 3, Dragon AGE, ME, etc...