Is this news about Pillars 3?

[xzar_monty]

17 hours ago, Wormerine said:

One thing they did hint at is that they will be making changes to D&D systems - one of the things they mentioned is how often you miss attacks in D&D and how unfun it is. 

We don't have any details to go on, but I am bracing myself for realization that Larian's take on D&D won't be for me. 

Oh my. I hope this hint you mentioned turns out to be untrue. I mean, missing is an integral part of fighting and not unfun at all -- heck, a good hit gets nearly all of its significance from the fact that you also miss a lot. So, this piece of information alone, if true, inclines me to initially agree with you: Larian's take on D&D might not be for me, either.

[Boeroer]

I do find lots of misses very annoying. First of all it gives the impression that your character can't even hit the broad side of the barn - which is a bit frustrating at times. But mainly because it just prolongs fights unneccessarily. By that I mean that if enemies and player characters both play by the same rules of misses/hits/crits then the outcome of the battle (on average) doesn't change if everybody misses more - it just takes longer. I don't mind misses every now and then, but with D&D they are way to frequent for my taste.

It's not that bad with a RTwP game since it's faster paced than turn based combat and thus the time you lose isn't that apparent - but jeez is it annoying when you play turn based D&D games or even tabletop P&P and you miss all the time. I mean that's my free time that I spend with hitting the air...  

Hence I appreciated the graze mechanic of PoE a lot. I would have liked it even more if there would have been an "quality of hit" system that is more fine-grained - where you gradually do more or less damage based on the quality of your hits - but miss/graze/hit/crit is quite easy to grasp and also suitable for tabletop games.

Obsidian even decided to lower the miss chance for TB mode even more - because as I said it it's even more tedious when playing turn based.

So - if Larian decides to deviate from the (for my taste) awful miss mechanics of D&D they have my support. Even if they do a RTwP game. 

On the other hand I didn't look at D&D 5 yet so maybe it's not as bad (in my book) as it used to be?

Edited October 14, 2019 by Boeroer

[Ancelor]

Ι think the introduction of grazes helped a lot against the misses issue.

It's only a matter of fine tuning the numbers in the end

[xzar_monty]

18 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I do find lots of misses very annoying. First of all it gives the impression that your character can't even hit the broad side of the barn - which is a bit frustrating at times. But mainly because it just prolongs fights unneccessarily. By that I mean that if enemies and player characters both play by the same rules of misses/hits/crits then the outcome of the battle (on average) doesn't change if everybody misses more - it just takes longer. I don't mind misses every now and then, but with D&D they are way to frequent for my taste.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from with this, but I don't agree (obviously no problem with that, for either of us, I suppose). And I do agree that the graze mechanic was a very good introduction, particularly for a cRPG. I would also agree that a "quality of hit" system would be welcome; it would also be quite easy to make for a cRPG these days, even if it were mathematically quite complex, whereas mathematical complexity can make PnP gaming too cumbersome.

I know (almost) nothing about D&D5, as my group still plays 3.5, which has turned out to be extremely enjoyable. Ha, our most recent campaign is seven years old now. Only one of the PCs has remained the same(*) throughout that time, and it's not mine. We're now at level 12-14.

(*) I was going to say "stayed alive", but that's not true -- this plucky halfling wizard did in fact die once, and was then resurrected.

[Wormerine]

Something to read:
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/larian-studios-shares-its-vision-for-baldurs-gate-3-interview

Swen avoids revealing any details as of now, so all we can do is speculate. 

[kanisatha]

On 10/13/2019 at 11:10 AM, Wormerine said:

On 10/13/2019 at 9:53 AM, Morrydwen said:

Since when is BG3 going to be turn-based? I hope you are kidding right?

I am pretty sure it's just speculation. Larian hasn't unveal any details just yet.

Yes speculation, but I can't imagine it will be anything else. What Larian has stated though is that the combat system has been established a long while ago and that they will not be changing it or adding multiple options for it.

[Wormerine]

On 10/14/2019 at 4:25 PM, kanisatha said:

Yes speculation, but I can't imagine it will be anything else. What Larian has stated though is that the combat system has been established a long while ago and that they will not be changing it or adding multiple options for it.

[stupid me]

Edited October 15, 2019 by Wormerine

[Boeroer]

Err? He didn't say anything about multiplayer. Did you misread "multiple options [for combat system]" as "multiplayer options"?

[Wormerine]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Err? He didn't say anything about multiplayer. Did you misread "multiple options [for combat system]" as "multiplayer options"?

Sorry. My brain hasn’t been working for couple days now. 

[bringingyouthefuture]

I would like a POE3 game ... that is all.  So in a perfect world in the next 4 years:

 

POE3

BG3

DA4

Realms Beyond

Solasta

... and anything else is very welcome!!!

 

EDIT:

 

Wasteland 3

Edit edit:

Pathfinder Kingmaker sequel???

Edited October 16, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture
boredom

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Honestly, it'd surprise me if BG3 wasn't multiplayer. The first two having multiplayer (which I doubt few on these boards ever used) aside, the shore mages have been trying to brand D&D as sort of a lifestyle thing you do in a group, and a videogame that does multiplayer like the DOS games fits that like a glove. As long as they don't do anything like Armor in DOS2, it will probably be a pretty good game that captures tabletop.

[juanval]

While we wait for future news, yesterday an interesting game was released. Disco Elysium. At the moment the reviews are positive.

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/632470/Disco_Elysium/

Edited October 16, 2019 by juanval

[xzar_monty]

9 hours ago, KaineParker said:

As long as they don't do anything like Armor in DOS2, it will probably be a pretty good game that captures tabletop.

It won't capture it, though, simply because it is impossible to capture playing tabletop with a group of friends in the same room with you. This, on an abstract level, is why I feel it shouldn't even be attempted, because even at its best, it's only going to be a pale shadow. A proper single-player cRPG campaign can do many things that a good PnP cannot, and vice versa. A cRPG multiplayer falls somewhere in between -- it's not the "worst of both worlds" but it's a way of playing that I don't find particularly fruitful.

[Boeroer]

Same for me. So far at least.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

10 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

It won't capture it, though, simply because it is impossible to capture playing tabletop with a group of friends in the same room with you. This, on an abstract level, is why I feel it shouldn't even be attempted, because even at its best, it's only going to be a pale shadow.

By striving for the impossible we achieve the limits of possibility, if we were to cautiously do no more than what we know to be possible then we would never take a single step forward. 

A proper single-player cRPG campaign can do many things that a good PnP cannot, and vice versa. A cRPG multiplayer falls somewhere in between -- it's not the "worst of both worlds" but it's a way of playing that I don't find particularly fruitful.

Quite a bit of the time a proper single-player cRPG plays like a very poor rendition of a PnP game (even when not directly adapting PnP mechanics) with meh storytelling and most of them only saved by grognards having masochistic tastes in mechanics or waifus, the exceptions are unfortunately few and far between. I think it's almost certain that Baldur's Gate 3 is going to have multiplayer functionality similar to the DOS games, because that fits well in Larian's wheelhouse and with wizards branding D&D as a social experience/lifestyle. It's similarly almost certain that it's going to be able to be played by yourself, and be close enough to D&D 5E for those familiar with the system to recognize it, so it should be good enough for anyone able to slog through Kingmaker.

[xzar_monty]

5 hours ago, KaineParker said:

By striving for the impossible we achieve the limits of possibility, if we were to cautiously do no more than what we know to be possible then we would never take a single step forward.

No doubt. But it does go both ways, you know. I would not try to play a symphony with a banjo. I would also not fool myself into believing that a computer game can in any realistic sense ever come close to actually being with my friends. There are definite, insurmountable obstacles. So my interest in computer multiplayer remains at zero.

Edited October 17, 2019 by xzar_monty

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

21 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

No doubt. But it does go both ways, you know. I would not try to play a symphony with a banjo. I would also not fool myself into believing that a computer game can in any realistic sense ever come close to actually being with my friends. There are definite, insurmountable obstacles. So my interest in computer multiplayer remains at zero.

But that is what you would do or want, not what everyone who may play BG3 or bring the banjo to an orchestra would do or want. As it is I'd bet my hat multiplayer similar to what Laraian did in DOS2 is going to be in BG3, and that it will be completely optional just as it was in BG, BG2 and DOS2. If you're interested in a single player game adapting D&D mechanics to fit a computer game, then there's been no indication that BG3 won't provide that.

[Wormerine]

On 10/18/2019 at 4:01 AM, KaineParker said:

As it is I'd bet my hat multiplayer similar to what Laraian did in DOS2 is going to be in BG3, and that it will be completely optional just as it was in BG, BG2 and DOS2.

Except in DOS2 single player is optional, not multiplayer. 

That is, I think, the main reason I didn't enjoy DOS1&2 without a friend, and I don't expect to enjoy BG3. 

Which is fine. I was not interested in BG3 anyway. This at least might be interesting. Not for me, but interesting.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Wormerine

[ABearIsHere]

Taking the discussion away from Larian's games for a moment, it does look like the Unity programmer position isn't available anymore, so it's probably been filled.

[Tenray]

Getting ready for Pillars of Eternity 3 - The Ultimate! *Already stretching*

=D

 

Will be cool if there will be some kind of Ultimate achievement for the new Baldurs Gate game aswell.

[xzar_monty]

I wonder how many players actually care about achievements. Has this been studied? Does anyone know?

I am always annoyed when an achievement icon pops up on my screen. It breaks immersion in the game and I have no interest in achievements. But yes, I also haven't checked whether they can be totally disabled somehow.

[Boeroer]

I can only speak for myself: although you can consider me a "hardcore" PoE player I don't care about official achievements at all.

Doesn't proof anything, but you can take it as a counterexample to the potentially upcoming theory that it's the hardcore players who care most about achievements.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I wonder how many players actually care about achievements. Has this been studied? Does anyone know?

I am always annoyed when an achievement icon pops up on my screen. It breaks immersion in the game and I have no interest in achievements. But yes, I also haven't checked whether they can be totally disabled somehow.

Mods and console usually disable achievements, and they seem to be fairly popular especially if there is a steam workshop (ease of use). It's hard to control for this, but without mods maybe half of people who own the game will go far enough to get the first act/area achievement. Furthermore, it seems like achievements structured around things that are outside of what the game tells you is good (like causing a mutiny or pissing off companions in Deadfire) are the least likely to be achieved. Deadfire may be problematic for this analysis, because players are rewarded in game for picking up achievements with Berath's Blessings and this may have increased achievement hunting.

I personally don't care about achievements, but I have all of them for Deadfire because there is an ingame incentive to. There are no studies or hard data I'm aware of.

[Boeroer]

Mods don't disable achievements (Or Berath's Blessings) in Deadfire. Use of the console also doesn't per se. Only thing that disables BBs is if you type "iroll20s" into the console to unlock cheats.

Don't remember how it was with mods and PoE1 since I didn't use any. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Boeroer

[xzar_monty]

Ha, mods, what a topic. BG2 is the only game where I've even tried mods, and boy the hassle they can create. Never even thought of using any for PoE, Deadfire or P:K.

One funny thing with mods is the writing, i.e. content mods (as opposed to system tweaks) are a nice idea and something I favor, at least in theory, but the writing can be poor. Having experienced some of the mods for BG2, it's easy to say that while the game itself is not on the level of literature or any kind of excellent writing, it's still pretty darn decent. (And yes: there was some decent writing in the mods, too.)

Edited November 12, 2019 by xzar_monty