The Ultimate discussion thread

[thelee]

I might have to walk back my SC troubadour idea, I think animated weapons become less good if you can't micro them as well due to lack of pause (notably the knockdown).

SC helwalker it is.

 

(Also managing like 6 skellies + 4 weapons in a fight like hauani seems too much for reliable success, even at slow speed)

Edited May 9, 2019 by thelee

[Kaylon]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

don't you have  a lot of experience doing solo? you planning on getting your name on a plaque?

Yes, I like to solo, however for me the Ultimate is not fun... But maybe I'll try to kill some bosses with Vela.

1 hour ago, Jayd said:

If I remember correctly, FF works with Instruments of pain. What if you used that and spammed FF at a distance (it doesn't need to land to give you the debuff)? 

 

(Sorry for double post)

You're right, it might work  with IoP.

[dunehunter]

5 hours ago, thelee said:

I might have to walk back my SC troubadour idea, I think animated weapons become less good if you can't micro them as well due to lack of pause (notably the knockdown).

SC helwalker it is.

 

(Also managing like 6 skellies + 4 weapons in a fight like hauani seems too much for reliable success, even at slow speed)

The Magran's Challenge on wiki says:

• The game cannot be paused.
• The game time cannot be slowed.

So I guess u cannot use slow mode?

[thelee]

2 hours ago, dunehunter said:

The Magran's Challenge on wiki says:

• The game cannot be paused.
• The game time cannot be slowed.

So I guess u cannot use slow mode?

must be out of date. people complained a lot about the accessibility issues of not letting people slow down the game, and tehre was a patch that brought back time slowing.  unless 5.0 undid that, you should still be able to adjust time. edit - can confirm with my first four horrible attempts that you can slow time in magran.

 

also, I'm yet again revisiting SC troubadour. I think on turn-based it can work pretty well because then micromanaging is no problem and the expanded graze range will make the infinite knockdowns you have access to real good. plus, I think people might be underestimating how much incidental damage vela can take and the passive regen of having ancient memory or something without having to use a scroll of withdraw can be real useful.

I might actually run two separate characters, an SC helwalker on RTWP and an SC troubadour on tb-mode and see which does better (and submit the first one that succeeds).

Edited May 10, 2019 by thelee

[thelee]

wow i completely forgot that one aspect of the ultimate is that it turns expert mode on, which i'm totally not used to.

also lol that run was short. maybe I shouldn't do a TB mode run, since it's a style of gameplay i have no experience with. RIP L'Egan the first, Long Live L'Egan the second! (it's just as well, i was "streaming" but have no idea where my video stream ended up. sigh, technology)

[Boeroer]

As I already said: Forbidden Curse last for a very short time if you build accordingly. Around 1.3 secs without Crucible and kind of instantly with it. You can just keep attacking with FF or alternate between it and WotW. Don't know if this is enough to kill the Oozes though. But usually the "new" FF has no trouble gaining wounds. Maybe even Hylea's Talons do work: the DoT will be very, very short and once it ends it gives you a wound. Maybe there are other ways to reliably "afflict" you with something? I besides the stuff that HOW puts on you. Maybe symbiote doesn't give you a wound when it expires because it has no finite duration.

Can't one use Efficient Anguish to prevent them from merging?

And what Jayd said. FF works with Instruments of Pain indeed. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Boeroer

[thelee]

something that i just realized that might not be fully appreciated - dance of death is a mortification-based ability, which means it's not actually a renewable ability without rest. it's not exactly a no-rest run, but it's pretty close. for this reason either nazpalca or FF is probably worth diving into more just because they have alternate ways to reliably generate wounds as well (and dance becomes more of a specialty ability).

it's too bad that solo completely removes NPCs from the game, because otherwise xoti's buckler's ability to get you mortification back would actually be handy here.

 

edit - another lesson learned. i'm pretty sure woedica not causing health regen at end of combat also applies to vela. yikes. scrolls aplenty for vela or something other than a monk for sustain.

Edited May 10, 2019 by thelee

[Dyxx]

While I can't play the game I have a lot of spare time.

The Ultimate challenge sounds really tough and I'm excited who's gonna make it.

But I got an idea, maybe it's any good for you guys.

So with all challenges  enabled you can't see the remaining time from the eothas challenges and while iron man is enabled you only have one try to do the whole. 

So wouldn't it be possible to start two exact same playthroughs (same class, same stats, same choices etc) but one with ultimate and one without ironmsn and the ??number challenge (forgot the name) ? So you guys could try out on different fights like the megabosses and see how much time is left on eothas. 

So you play let's say 15 minutes on no iron man and then do the same on ultimate.

It's just an idea that came to my mind.

I hope everyone get's my idea 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Dyxx

[Waski]

@ thelee if you recruit Xoti she's gonna be on ship,  you know what you have to do if you want that lamp

@Dyxx parallel playthrough it's must have IMHO 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Waski

[Boeroer]

That strategy was used by nearly all PoE ultimate challengers so far.

[Boeroer]

1 minute ago, Waski said:

@ thelee if you recruit Xoti she's gonna be on ship,  you know what you have to do if you want that lamp

How can you recruit her in a forced solo run?

[thelee]

1 minute ago, Waski said:

@ thelee if you recruit Xoti she's gonna be on ship,  you know what you have to do if you want that lamp

with solo mode enabled, NPCs immediately disappear, no chance of recruiting them afaict.

4 minutes ago, Dyxx said:

So wouldn't it be possible to start two exact same playthroughs (same class, same stats, same choices etc) but one with ultimate and one without ironmsn and the ??number challenge (forgot the name) ? So you guys could try out on different fights like the megabosses and see how much time is left on eothas. 

 So you play let's say 15 minutes on no iron man and then do the same on ultimate.

It's just an idea that came to my mind.

I hope everyone get's my idea 

that's literally waht i ended up doing for poe1 ultimate, basically using a normal run as "research" to confirm some stuff in advance of hard fights and to practice. i'm sort of doing it now while still trying to figure out a build that actually can get out of port maje in decent shape without resting.

[Boeroer]

@thelee: for Vela you could carry around that medium shield with the healing aura. Forgot the name. Lathandria's whatever or something.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Boeroer

[Waski]

You can recruit anybody,  they will go and stay on ship.  No access to inventory unfortunately. 

[Dyxx]

3 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

That strategy was used by nearly all PoE ultimate challengers so far.

So nothing new for anyone 

 

[thelee]

2 minutes ago, Waski said:

You can recruit anybody,  they will go and stay on ship.  No access to inventory unfortunately. 

super good to know. i haven't left port maje left so i don't have a ship to access. (embarassingly i've already failed five times though the first one i don't want to count because it was just me being dumb about turn-based mode). i just assumed when the screen faded to black they were gone for good. 

this means i can revive my helwalker idea and rely on the buckler to get mortification back when i need to.

Edited May 10, 2019 by thelee

[Kaylon]

Voidwheel+Voidward is another combo that allows infinite Whispers of the Wind. If the enemies die fast then the heal on kill is enough, but vs strong enemies the self damage can add up quickly.

 

[MaxQuest]

Regarding Vela: I wonder if her wandering behaviour changes if you remove her cower effect (which is actually a Terrify she casts on herself in combat, if she is not already under it's effect)

And by removing I mean: trying Cap of the Laughingstock; or using Writ of Sorcery + Res inspiration; stuff like that. 

[Alhoon]

22 hours ago, thelee said:

to anyone with solo experience - have you also done iron man solo?

I did Iron Man Solo a long time ago, before any megabosses or DLCs, but I did kill both dragons and the end boss. As Assassin+Bleak Walker multiclass. It involved maximum stealth cheesing and combat resetting. That's obviously not possible in The Ultimate.

On a topic of how to trigger Brilliant Tactician solo, any invisibility still triggers it with Berath's Challenge in 5.0 when all enemies have disengaged. This bug was supposed to be fixed many patches ago according to patch notes, but it still isn't, and probably will never be fixed as the game is going to maintenance mode now.

[Dr <3]

5 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

Regarding Vela: I wonder if her wandering behaviour changes if you remove her cower effect (which is actually a Terrify she casts on herself in combat, if she is not already under it's effect)

And by removing I mean: trying Cap of the Laughingstock; or using Writ of Sorcery + Res inspiration; stuff like that. 

The next step is try to use vela as a tank and run a dps range build behind her

[MaxQuest]

16 minutes ago, Dr said:

The next step is try to use vela as a tank and run a dps range build behind her

A bloodmage/priest with BDD, Salvation of Time and a load of barrels ?)  

18 minutes ago, Alhoon said:

On a topic of how to trigger Brilliant Tactician solo, any invisibility still triggers it with Berath's Challenge in 5.0 when all enemies have disengaged. This bug was supposed to be fixed many patches ago according to patch notes, but it still isn't, and probably will never be fixed as the game is going to maintenance mode now.

Whoa..

Edit: So... Tactician of Scaen, can cast Withdraw on Vela, and use Shadowing Beyond to get 3 discipline / spell usages over 12s? And after that use Unbending Trunk and Salvation of Time?

Edited May 10, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Alhoon]

32 minutes ago, MaxQuest said:

So... Tactician of Scaen, can cast Withdraw on Vela, and use Shadowing Beyond to get 3 discipline / spell usages over 12s? And after that use Unbending Trunk and Salvation of Time?

Just tested this since I haven't used it with Vela before, and the answer is yes.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Alhoon

[Alhoon]

Tested gameplay with Vela and Invis a bit more. This may be common knowledge but I'll post it anyways since I've never played with Vela. If you stealth and walk next to enemies, start the fight and pop Withdraw on Vela and Shadowing Beyond away, you gain Brilliant Tactician for as long as you stay away from the enemies. Even when Vela gets released from Withdraw, as long as your player character isn't aggroing the enemies, Vela will not aggro them either. She just stands there covering in the middle of enemies.

This means one could do Start fight -> Withdraw Vela -> Shadowing Beyond -> Wait for full spells -> Spam BDD+SoT -> Re-engage, Withdraw Vela and complete the encounter.

Then again, is this against the spirit of the challenge? It sure as hell sounds like it, but again, I don't think this challenge is doable without cheesing.

[MaxQuest]

^ Leaving unprotected Vela amidst enemies, indeed sounds against the spirit. But if she is kept under Withdraw or BDD for the full duration, I suppose it's ok.

P.S. Vela seems to be considered a summon (with indefinite duration) of CombatPet type, whatever that means 

Edited May 10, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

CombatPet? Sound like the Conjurer's Familiar.