Spells used up when interrupted in spite of no spell actually cast

[Purudaya]

 

 

 

 

 

Every crpg I've ever played (and I've played a lot) differentiates between a player cancelling an action and having an action interrupted.

Losing a spell due to being interrupted while casting is absolutely not unique to PoE2. It's a common gameplay mechanic for this genre.

 

Except that interrupts did not work this way in POE1 if memory serves.

And serves it does:"If the interrupted action is one that can be performed only a limited number of times (e.g., a spell), the action is not permanently lost, but it must be manually restarted after the Interrupt period has elapsed."

So, yep, I think it's BS

 https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Combat#Interrupts.2FConcentration

Again, losing a spell if shot/stabbed while casting is common to this genre of games. It's not new to PoE2, and *if memory serves* it was the implementation in PoE1 as well, regardless of what the gamepedia wiki says. Same with BG1, BG2, IWD1, IWD2, PS:T, DA:O, Tyranny, and just about any other RTwP game I can think of.

I'm sorry you don't like it. It's as much of a staple in crpgs as a grenade throw being interrupted by gunfire is in an fps. Learn the rules and plan accordingly; you're the only user I've seen in these forums that has a problem with this.

No, indeed it was not applied this way in POE1, taking 5 minutes to hop in game would show you that.

Revised. Is PoE the only crpg you've ever played?

My interest was piqued with POE1 when I was craving to replay NWN2, actually. So, how about that game? Admittedly I was a barbarian in that one.

Given that NWN2 was based on D&D 3.5, yes - being interrupted while casting a spell should have cost you the use of that spell.

[Boeroer]

And what's the problem if you get knocked out - as long as you can get back up?

[DiabloStorm]

 

Pretty much. Said it before I'll say it again, POE1 had a good thing going for it, why fix what isn't broken?

Because they got immense feedback on certain mechanics. Since it was so much they decided to do a complete overhaul.

 

Actually when the beta came out and I saw that everything got changed completey I howled around in these forums for a while, too. I still think they should have improved the mechanics a bit but leave most of it and just concentrate on cool new content. But at some point you really have to get over it. It's no use to stack in these tracks for too long.

 

I'm trying to adapt, still making progress in game in spite of everything so I guess that's something but I'm certainly annoyed by a lot of changes that feel unnecessary.

[DiabloStorm]

And what's the problem if you get knocked out - as long as you can get back up?

Personal challenge I suppose. Or achievements again...if the same one exists in this game.

[DiabloStorm]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every crpg I've ever played (and I've played a lot) differentiates between a player cancelling an action and having an action interrupted.

Losing a spell due to being interrupted while casting is absolutely not unique to PoE2. It's a common gameplay mechanic for this genre.

Except that interrupts did not work this way in POE1 if memory serves.

And serves it does:"If the interrupted action is one that can be performed only a limited number of times (e.g., a spell), the action is not permanently lost, but it must be manually restarted after the Interrupt period has elapsed."

So, yep, I think it's BS

 https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Combat#Interrupts.2FConcentration

Again, losing a spell if shot/stabbed while casting is common to this genre of games. It's not new to PoE2, and *if memory serves* it was the implementation in PoE1 as well, regardless of what the gamepedia wiki says. Same with BG1, BG2, IWD1, IWD2, PS:T, DA:O, Tyranny, and just about any other RTwP game I can think of.

I'm sorry you don't like it. It's as much of a staple in crpgs as a grenade throw being interrupted by gunfire is in an fps. Learn the rules and plan accordingly; you're the only user I've seen in these forums that has a problem with this.

No, indeed it was not applied this way in POE1, taking 5 minutes to hop in game would show you that.

Revised. Is PoE the only crpg you've ever played?

My interest was piqued with POE1 when I was craving to replay NWN2, actually. So, how about that game? Admittedly I was a barbarian in that one.

Given that NWN2 was based on D&D 3.5, yes - being interrupted while casting a spell should have cost you the use of that spell.

 

It's been a decade since I've played, so, no clue if you're right or wrong. Certainly wrong about poe1 though.

[Boeroer]

Unnecessary for you and me perhaps - but a lot of players felt differently. And to be honest ertain things are indeed a lot better in Deafire than in PoE. Don't know if it warranted to knock it all over. But a lots of mechanics in PoE were (more) obscure, infested with exceptions, very weird stacking rules and too strong CC. 

 

For example: how came that you didn't get annoyed by Adragans who would petrifiy you for 15+ secs on a graze? This won't happen to you in Deadfire.

[DiabloStorm]

Unnecessary for you and me perhaps - but a lot of players felt differently. And to be honest ertain things are indeed a lot better in Deafire than in PoE. Don't know if it warranted to knock it all over. But a lots of mechanics in PoE were (more) obscure, infested with exceptions, very weird stacking rules and too strong CC. 

 

For example: how came that you didn't get annoyed by Adragans who would petrifiy you for 15+ secs on a graze? This won't happen to you in Deadfire.

Because I had a counter. Confuse, figurines, my own petrify. All of which have been nerfed in this game. (Also other tactics I will fail to mention to avoid nerfing in poe2 since they still exist)

Edited March 13, 2019 by DiabloStorm

[Boeroer]

 

And what's the problem if you get knocked out - as long as you can get back up?

Personal challenge I suppose. Or achievements again...if the same one exists in this game.

 

Nope.

 

If it's only your personal tick then I see no way to resolve this reasonably. There are multiple ways to deal with interrupts ("counters" if you like). If you choose to forgo them because of "special" personal preferences then it's going to be really difficult to deal with it. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Boeroer

[DiabloStorm]

 

 

And what's the problem if you get knocked out - as long as you can get back up?

Personal challenge I suppose. Or achievements again...if the same one exists in this game.

 

Nope.

 

If it's only your personal tick then I see no way to resolve this reasonably. There are multiple ways to deal with interrupts ("counters" if you like). If you choose to forgo them because of "special" personal preferences then it's going to be really difficult to deal with it. 

 

I read briefly on an area ive forgotten of some pool you can drink from that applies a random injury or buff, any merit to this? Specifically frost bite was one of the possibilities.

[Boeroer]

Yes, it's there: Outcast's Respite

[xzar_monty]

Unnecessary for you and me perhaps - but a lot of players felt differently. And to be honest ertain things are indeed a lot better in Deafire than in PoE. Don't know if it warranted to knock it all over. But a lots of mechanics in PoE were (more) obscure, infested with exceptions, very weird stacking rules and too strong CC.

 

Pretty much everything works better in Deadfire, in my view, although early on there were a few strange moments before coming to term with the changes.

[DiabloStorm]

 

Unnecessary for you and me perhaps - but a lot of players felt differently. And to be honest ertain things are indeed a lot better in Deafire than in PoE. Don't know if it warranted to knock it all over. But a lots of mechanics in PoE were (more) obscure, infested with exceptions, very weird stacking rules and too strong CC.

 

Pretty much everything works better in Deadfire, in my view, although early on there were a few strange moments before coming to term with the changes.

 

Judging by the amount of bugs Ive been finding in my first playthrough, i'd disagree.

[DiabloStorm]

Yes, it's there: Outcast's Respite

Do you know if it's reusable?

[Boeroer]

Drinking from the pool will give you one of three boons, but also has the chance of giving you an injury. You are able to drink as many times as you please.

 

According to that I would guess the answer is "yes". But I didn't try myself. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

Iirc this was an intentional change by Obsidian, and most likely for the following reasons:

- in order to make Concentration more important

- to provide the players some additional means to deal with hostile kith spellcasters

 

P.S. As Boeroer already noted, during backers beta, the spell usage was consumed at spell's casttime start. But due to player's feedback this was changed, such that the usage is getting consumed at cast end, or when being interrupted. Source. So now, we can re-position / move without losing the usage. Moreover it is possible to fake cast, i.e. manually cancel casting right before being interrupted, and start again immediately after it landed.

Edited March 13, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Waski]

 

Yes, it's there: Outcast's Respite

Do you know if it's reusable?

 

It is reusable. On a island west of Fort Deadlight is a place called False Mouth Forrest, if you fail Survival check (12) during scripted event you gonna end with Acute Rash(-5 Fortitiude, -3 corrode AR) but its one time only.

[AeonsLegend]

Concentration is your friend. There's a passive that gives this and a spell at level 1 as well.

[Boeroer]

I guess with this item you could have an easy time building up Concentration during a solo run...?

[xzar_monty]

Ha. Would be interesting to know how that's built, i.e. whether you actually need an ally for the counter to start to work.

[Verde]

I think spells take too long as it is. And wizards have cool casting animation so why did Obs give druids and priests the Hadouken!? Oh let me put my weapon down to make this hand shape...would have preferred a staff motion for druids and something more holy for the priests.

[BlackSperm]

I just think the MP system is better than the "limited number of spells per battle" system. Im level 20 wizard, and I have a lot of tier 6 or 7 spells that i dont use, and a lot of tier 2 or 3 that i use... but i can only use them 2 times? i would rather use tier 3 four-five times than use the useless (for me) tier 6 one-two times. 

 

With an MP pool system I can use my magic capacity the way i see fit, not being limited by game design strings. Freedom of choice... is ALWAYS better. 

[thelee]

I just think the MP system is better than the "limited number of spells per battle" system. Im level 20 wizard, and I have a lot of tier 6 or 7 spells that i dont use, and a lot of tier 2 or 3 that i use... but i can only use them 2 times? i would rather use tier 3 four-five times than use the useless (for me) tier 6 one-two times. 

 

With an MP pool system I can use my magic capacity the way i see fit, not being limited by game design strings. Freedom of choice... is ALWAYS better. 

 

in particular spells are frequently balanced by the fact that you are limited to a few tier X casts per encounter. this is an artifact of the conscious decision of trying to make spells of any tier useful throughout the game. (go try a blood mage)

 

from a game design perspective, freedom of choice is not always better. for example, some people like classless designs, some people don't (count me in the latter). "freedom" of any kind is its own game design constraint, even if it seems invisible to you.

 

form a real life perspective, freedom of choice is also not always better, depending on what you define as "better". A good, quick primer on the topic: https://www.amazon.com/Paradox-Choice-Why-More-Less/dp/149151423X (the canonical example is that a store selling one kind of jam will have more jam sales than a store that sells many many types of jams. poorly handled, choice induces anxiety... call it FOMO or whatnot. it's also probably why trader joe's and costco have such high throughput on sales compared to similar stores (both heavily stock items of one brand, frequently their own))

Edited March 13, 2019 by thelee

[Frak]

 

Except that [XY] did not work this way in POE1.

This is DiabloStorm's problem in a nutshell.

 

 

 

Somebody! Ask him how he feel about heralds.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Frak

[thelee]

 

 

Unnecessary for you and me perhaps - but a lot of players felt differently. And to be honest ertain things are indeed a lot better in Deafire than in PoE. Don't know if it warranted to knock it all over. But a lots of mechanics in PoE were (more) obscure, infested with exceptions, very weird stacking rules and too strong CC.

 

Pretty much everything works better in Deadfire, in my view, although early on there were a few strange moments before coming to term with the changes.

 

Judging by the amount of bugs Ive been finding in my first playthrough, i'd disagree.

 

 

Of the latest patch of PoE1 I can still literally soft-lock the game if I use consumables ever-so-slightly incorrectly or weirdly. (And it's random). Traps were so bugged, I wrote an entire section in my PoE1 gamefaqs guide imploring people to try to lobby Obsidian to get it fixed. Nothing in Deadfire compares to that. PoE1 also gets bloated and takes forever to save/load the further you get into the game. Deadfire is rock solid there. I pruned up my PoE1 bug-report dropbox folder (hitting dropbox free storage caps) but the size of that folder dwarfed my Deadfire bug-report folder.

 

PoE1 isn't all that stable or intuitive a game (relatively speaking). You're just used to its particular idiosyncracies. Deadfire is way more stable (though with the TB-related patches it has notably regressed a bit).

 

Oh yeah - and interrupt/concentration in PoE1 was pure murk and needed to be fixed mechanically.

Edited March 13, 2019 by thelee

[Purudaya]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every crpg I've ever played (and I've played a lot) differentiates between a player cancelling an action and having an action interrupted.

Losing a spell due to being interrupted while casting is absolutely not unique to PoE2. It's a common gameplay mechanic for this genre.

Except that interrupts did not work this way in POE1 if memory serves.

And serves it does:"If the interrupted action is one that can be performed only a limited number of times (e.g., a spell), the action is not permanently lost, but it must be manually restarted after the Interrupt period has elapsed."

So, yep, I think it's BS

 https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Combat#Interrupts.2FConcentration

Again, losing a spell if shot/stabbed while casting is common to this genre of games. It's not new to PoE2, and *if memory serves* it was the implementation in PoE1 as well, regardless of what the gamepedia wiki says. Same with BG1, BG2, IWD1, IWD2, PS:T, DA:O, Tyranny, and just about any other RTwP game I can think of.

I'm sorry you don't like it. It's as much of a staple in crpgs as a grenade throw being interrupted by gunfire is in an fps. Learn the rules and plan accordingly; you're the only user I've seen in these forums that has a problem with this.

No, indeed it was not applied this way in POE1, taking 5 minutes to hop in game would show you that.

Revised. Is PoE the only crpg you've ever played?

My interest was piqued with POE1 when I was craving to replay NWN2, actually. So, how about that game? Admittedly I was a barbarian in that one.

Given that NWN2 was based on D&D 3.5, yes - being interrupted while casting a spell should have cost you the use of that spell.

 

It's been a decade since I've played, so, no clue if you're right or wrong. Certainly wrong about poe1 though.

 

 

Yes, we established that, which is why I revised my post a few moments after double-checking, iirc. Same goes for Tyranny - I forgot that its system didn't rely on finite abilities the way most cprgs do. Other than that, I can't think of any crpg with finite-use abilities that doesn't cause those abilities (or at least spells) to be lost on interrupt. If you find one, let us know?

 

 

Rather than building an entire playthrough around the casque and constantly going back to out of the way locations to give yourself a rash, it might just be easier to learn how to avoid being interrupted in the first place. The tips in this thread should be more than enough - you probably won't be able to make it through the game without ever losing a spell, but you can minimize it quite a bit with the right combination of positioning, protections, and tactics. Add to that the Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry and a means to proc Brilliant and you'll find it pretty difficult to be short on casts.

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Purudaya