Deadfire Polishing Thread

[Phenomenum]

An alternative was to give only few spells but also give a passive bonus like +1 PL for Inspiration or Protection and so on -  or +1 cast for a certain spell level or something like that. Just to make it more different from grimoires (while retraining the same base mechanics).

 

This. A few spells with Inspiration/Protection/Whatever keywords and + PL bonus to these kind of spells.

 

I don't even think it has to be books in every case. But of course "prayerbook" (book with prayers and litanies) or something like a "vade mecum" (like a Handbook for healing spells) sound nice. But it couls also be a bulla (gives you seal spells), a relic of faith (maybe some of the priest summon spells), an ancient ecclesial tablet and so on. It's easy to use trinkets to add something to the game which makes the class more interesting without even touching the class itself.

 

Same with Druids and shrinkheads, vodoo dolls, fetishes and so on.

 

Agreed. I like fetishes.

 

Maybe this is not polishing but better material for a "trinket" mod. But I think it will improve the gameplay of Priest and Druid a lot without making them too good. And I like the non-intrusive apporach since I don't like to tinker too much with class abilites and -mechanics themselves. FOr example I uso no mods besides the Advanced UI mod (which is superb but zero-intrusive in terms of mechanics and gameplay).

 

It can be an optional mod.

 

Ok. Then "Prayers & Litanies" question closed. For me at least.

[MaxQuest]

It can be an optional mod.

Maybe this is not polishing but better material for a "trinket" mod. But I think it will improve the gameplay of Priest and Druid a lot without making them too good. And I like the non-intrusive apporach since I don't like to tinker too much with class abilites and -mechanics themselves. FOr example I uso no mods besides the Advanced UI mod (which is superb but zero-intrusive in terms of mechanics and gameplay).

I salute the separate mod approach for priest/druid trinkets.

 

P.S. And I'd like to hear concrete/specific details about 3 trinkets for priests and 3 for druids. What their effects should be. And where they should be dropped or sold.

Edited March 30, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Phenomenum]

They should be dropped as loot or hidden somewhere - just like in BoW. I think we should use a similar approach.

 

As for the ideas... First of all, if trinket grants spells, they should MUST to be per encounter.
For priest it should be be in form of books (like Boeroer already mentioned).
1. + N PL for Protection/Inspiration spells. Containing several spells of this kind (Prayers & Litanies + maybe 1 or 2 additional spells).
2. + N PL for Punishment/Condemnation spells. Containing several spells of this kind.
3... ? Cleansing? Though i already suggested to remove this "relic" from game.

Similar thing for druids.
1. + N PL for Rejuvenation spells. Containing several spells of this kind.
2. + N PL for Elements spells. Containing several spells of this kind.
... and so on (Decay, Beasts)

Maybe it's worth to do a 4 trinkets for Priests (Protection, Inspiration, Punishment, Condemnation, excluding Cleansing) and 4 for Druids (Rejuv., Elements, Beasts, Decay).

Also i wanted to do a Druid trinked with bonus Spiritshift use, but it looks like we add Level 5 ability instead.

 

As for specific spells, i think that it must be a non-top tier spells. Some spells, which you don't usually pick during level-ups (like those Litanies and so on).

Edited March 30, 2019 by Phenomenum

[MaxQuest]

The general idea is clear enough.

But I'd like to hear specific examples (конкретные примеры). For example:

 

> (Priest) Book of Prayers:

- provides +1 protection PL, +1 inspiration PL

- unlocks Prayer for the Body, Prayer for the Spirit, Litany for the Body and Litany for the Spirit

* unlocks in the sense that it is like a grimoire with 4 spells.

... can be purchased from Temple Vendor ("Ca-candles and balms!..")

 

 

> (Priest) Talisman against Evil:

- reduces damage taken from Vessels by 20%.

- grants "Turn Undead": 1-per-encounter variation of "Halt" that also applies Terrify. But is only usable vs vessels.

... can be looted somewhere inside of Hanging Sepulchers

 

 

> (Druid) Shrunken Head Talisman:

- decreases damage with Decay effects by -20%

- increases duration with Decay and Ground effects by +30%

... can be looted from some Xaurip in Poko Kohara

 

 

> (Druid) Small Rotghast Skull:

- grants a 1-per-encounter "Lesser Rot Skull" spell. It's same as rank-5 "Rot Skull" but single-target instead of AoE.

- +1 Decay PL and +2 Metaphysics

- -1 Plant and Restoration PL

... sold by Dimessa

 

> (Druid) Stelgaer's Fang:

- ...

 

> (Druid) Captured Essence of the Storm:

- ...

 

> (Druid) Bunch of dried herbs:

- ...

 

something like that.

Edited March 30, 2019 by MaxQuest

[UltimaLuminaire]

Sorry for the necro. I decided to jump back into Deadfire after I noticed the community mod had been up on Nexus for a while now. I also noticed the Funnening mods, and this lead me down another Barbarian rabbit hole.

Long story short, I didn't realize Crushing Blow had an error. It lists its damage multiplier twice, and as you all know, active ability damage multipliers (EDIT: of the same type) don't stack. So having the two 20% extra damage doesn't do anything. Worse, they forgot to even make a Crushing Blow crit damage multiplier se entry. Ended up just scrapping the crit damage on my end and using Funnening's gatecrasher idea to give Crushing Blow a solid identity as a full HP nuke, but I digress. If there's ever a future update to the community patch, I hope this gets addressed. As for the current patch, glad you guys caught the off-hand carnage snafu. They had the entry made, just nothing was pointing to it haha.

Edited October 30, 2019 by UltimaLuminaire

[Elric Galad]

33 minutes ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

Long story short, I didn't realize Crushing Blow had an error. It lists its damage multiplier twice, and as you all know, active ability damage multipliers don't stack. So having the two 20% extra damage doesn't do anything. Worse, they forgot to even make a Crushing Blow crit damage multiplier se entry. 

What is a se entry ? Child effect in the game data file ? Does it mean there is no extra crit damage in the regular crushing blow ?

[UltimaLuminaire]

28 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

What is a se entry ? Child effect in the game data file ? Does it mean there is no extra crit damage in the regular crushing blow ?

In the gamedatabundle files, se just stands for status effect. A bulk of all the nity gritty numbers and multipliers fall under that file.

Child effect? Hmm, I don't think that's how the code is organized. The status effects were made to be modular rather than be a child to any specific class. What they did is ID and name status effects alongside each ability, regardless of if the ability is an upgrade or unique, to help with organization for mods. They planned it out pretty well. You can ignore their organization and add a status effect ID to any number of different abilities without having to make something up from scratch if you didn't want to, assuming you find an effect you want.

And yes, that's what I'm getting at. There is no existing crit damage multiplier on regular Crushing Blow. If you search the relevant gamedatabundle file, the entry was not created, nor is any referenced by Crushing Blow itself. All they did was add the same damage boost status effect ID a second time. You can also verify the damage output and the active (visible) multipliers in the combat log. The ability description also lists active properties/effects based on the IDs added to the ability, so you can treat that as an accurate representation of Crushing Blow's error. Flavor text still says bonus crit chance and damage, which is actually present both in the original attack ability and Barbaric Smash (with their own IDs and entries).

Edited October 30, 2019 by UltimaLuminaire

[Elric Galad]

Some status have child effects. But I mixed status and attacks indeed.

I had this to my own list of changes to be made. I might start my own balance mod from the Community Patch basis, but don't be too hurry for the release

Crushing blow needed a rework anyway.

[Elric Galad]

Just a minor complaint : toughened fury is listed as 25% chances in the patch change list, but is only 20% in both in-game description and in the patch file.
Not that it makes a big difference, the change is still very good.

I suppose there won't be any further changes anyway. Can anyone confirm ? Boeroer ?

[Boeroer]

Sadly it seems that both @Phenomenum as well as @MaxQuest have left the forum.

[Elric Galad]

I was thinking about creating my own balance mod, from the Community Patch basis.
Given that it could take some time since I've barely started to explore the gamedata file...

I have some ideas about Subclasses balance, Paladin's Commands, Rogue Mobility / Invibility abilities, Druids Tier VI - VIII, etc.. and in general a cost reduction for high level martial abilities.

 

My first (humble) objectives to get started would be the following :

 

A) Fighters abilities :

 

1) Into the Fray (and upgrades) :

- Cost reduced 2->1 Discipline

- Damages reduced : 10-14 -> 5-10 (to prevent spamming it as an instant damage ability)

 

2) Inspired Discipline :

- Cost reduced 3->2 Discipline (to provide a bit more oomph to SC fighter, also the ability suffer a bit from Tier 1 Inspiration stacking poorly with other buffs)

 

3) Power Strike (and upgrade) :

- Cost reduced 4->3 Discipline

- Stun duration buffed : 6s -> 10s 8s (EDITED)

- Stagger duration buffed : 6s -> 10s 8s (EDITED)

EDIT : Inspired Strike  buff : 10s-> 15s (I want to help SC fighter more than MC)

 

B) 2-Handed Axes :

- +1PR (Amra and Oathbreaker), since they never got the +1 PR that all other 2-hander received at some point.

EDIT : after checking in-game, this was an urban legend I read somewhere. 2-Handed axe Pr is correct (equal to weapons of similar damages + nb of damage types : Pikes and staves

 

Feel free to provide any feedback before I start modding 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

Question about Community Patch :

Does Forbidden Fist work with AoE melee Weapons now ? Or is it just just a tag to generate focus with Cipher attacks ? I'm thinking about a Black Jacket/FF build with WotEP and this would be a good option to apply AoE Enfeeble.

[Powerotti]

FF ability is using your fist as a weapon, and targets only one foe always. But if it proc additional attacks with Swift flurry or HBD, the following hits will be used with your main hand weapon. For example, if you put battle axe with modal and tuotillo hand as weapons, and use Ffist, then first hit will be with fist (with PL scalling and tuotillo bonus), and every other will apply bleeding cuts with axe, but your recovery won't be affected by axe modal. 

Community patch only changes FF to be tagged as melee ability instead of "spell like"

[Boeroer]

Unmodded Forbidden Fist (without mods) is indeed a spell-like ability like Powerotti said.  It doesn't generate focus and afaik it doesn't trigger Swift Flurry or Heartbeat Drumming at all(?). At least I could never proc them with FF when I tested it. And I never experienced the behaviour mentioned above (Bleeding Cuts etc.) in the unmodded game. 

The Community Patch simply added the "weapon" tag to the Forbidden Fist ability (not "melee" afaik because it already was tagged as melee- but not as weapon attack). It now can generate focus and also triggers Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming.

However, like Powerotti also already said, you cannot use weapons with the Forbidden Fist ability and thus no AoE whatsoever.

Monk's "Inner Death" has the same probems by the way and I believe it was untouched by the Community Patch (we didn't notice this before the patch went live).

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

@Boeroer Ha-ha, u miss me. That's sweet.

I was busy IRL + some troubles, so i almost forgot about computer games. As for Deadfire... game has some fundamental problems, which no one can resolve. I stopped work on my own translation mod, because i was tired of this game for a moment.

As for some changes... Let me explain:

1) Into the Fray (and upgrades) :

- Cost reduced 2->1 Discipline First, you want to lower resource consumption, ok.

- Damages reduced : 10-14 -> 5-10 (to prevent spamming it as an instant damage ability) Second, your previous change opening a way to abuse, and you forced to patch it.

In other words: you create a problem, and then you solving your own problem. It's an autism (yes, my favorite word) of some kind.
That's not how the things works. From a wide perspective, your changes should not create a problems, but only resolve ones.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's been a while since CP release and i bet you have some feedback, which can be used to create patch/addon for CP. In this case i need a list.

@Boeroer have you tried to contact with Max?

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

8 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

As for some changes... Let me explain:

1) Into the Fray (and upgrades) :

- Cost reduced 2->1 Discipline First, you want to lower resource consumption, ok.

- Damages reduced : 10-14 -> 5-10 (to prevent spamming it as an instant damage ability) Second, your previous change opening a way to abuse, and you forced to patch it.

In other words: you create a problem, and then you solving your own problem. It's an autism (yes, my favorite word) of some kind.
That's not how the things works. From a wide perspective, your changes should not create a problems, but only resolve ones.

Only if you look at "Into the Fray" as a dmg tool. But the main part of the ability seems to be the CC/pull effect (especially in TB mode I reckon) which will remain untouched. The change he suggested would simply shift the focus away from damage and towards that aspect of the ability. Since the ability would do less dmg but keep its pulling effect it needs to be cheaper then.
Thus his "problem-creating+solving" is necessary.

I have not tried to contact @MaxQuest besides tagging him like so.

PS: Hey!  

Edited January 21, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Anyway I should stop hijacking your thread with my own modding stuff.

As for Community Patch itself, here is the list of minor issues I have in mind :

1) Toughened Fury is stated 25% Discipline on Crit in the patch note but is 20% in game (might be intended ?).

2) Deep Wounds is stated 4 ticks at 5% damages of the original Attack but is 3 ticks in game (checked the file : this is because the duration is still 6s, while it should be 9s to get the 4 ticks)

3) Lesser Wounds for Shattered Pillars cause the wound limit to be back to 5. This is because Shattered Pillars use their own version of Lesser Wounds in the abilities file, and the max number of Wounds is among the attributes of the ability.

4) I think (based on the files, not tested in game) that sacred immolation increased radius has only be changed for the base ability, but not for its upgrades (Sacred Sacrifice and Divine Immolation)
 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Phenomenum]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Only if you look at "Into the Fray" as a dmg tool. But the main part of the ability seems to be the CC/pull effect (especially in TB mode I reckon) which will remain untouched. The change he suggested would simply shift the focus away from damage and towards that aspect of the ability. Since the ability would do less dmg but keep its pulling effect it needs to be cheaper then.
Thus his "problem-creating+solving" is necessary.

I agreed, but damage part is very minor, only 10-14 - you can't do any serious damage with this ability, then is unnecessary to change it. But with Discipline cost=1 you can spam pulling. Anyway, what's the problem with vanilla "Into the Fray"?

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

Anyway I should stop hijacking your thread with my own modding stuff.

No, every opinion is appreciated.

P.S. @Boeroer I like the idea of Priest subclasses bonuses from this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/363

What do you say? Basically it's what we wanted to do via trinkets.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

@Phenomenum: I'd say it leeds to Power (Level) creep (e.g. Illusionist/Ascendant getting bonus PL for all spells from Illusionist subclass, bonus PL from Ascension, bonuses from passives AND longer duration from Lingering Echoes etc.). Which will lead to broken combos with certain multiclass characters. And last but not least it gives every ability a reeeeeeally long list of keywords.
I actually like the current CP solution: it's more systemic and makes more sense but it doesn't lead to completely broken edge cases.

What I wanted to do with trinkets was giving Priests and Druids more spell choices without having to use ability points. So basically I wanted to mimic grimoires which do exactly that. Also because trinkets were originally planned to be given to all classes but were cut because of "no time and money left". So trinkets (for priest, druid, later also fighter, rogue etc.) would kind of be a "spiritual" continuation of the original development progress.

Just to make them a bit distinct I wanted to give Priests less spell choice (since Wizards with their "scientific" apporach and books full of spells should have the biggest portfolio) and compensate that with other bonuses. Everythig else was just for flavour etc.  

Edited January 21, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

I agreed, but damage part is very minor, only 10-14 - you can't do any serious damage with this ability, then is unnecessary to change it. But with Discipline cost=1 you can spam pulling. Anyway, what's the problem with vanilla "Into the Fray"?

As a generic rule, I tend to be very suspicious with the Ressource Cost scaling of most martial abilities of the game.

Most (if not all) 1 ressource abilities feel pretty good for their cost, while many 2+ feels a bit meh . MC/SC martial ends up with 9 to 11 total ressources (+items), which means 2+ ressources abilities take a big part of your pool. This could be critical during mid to long fights. One always has to think twice when using them, and one should expect Something cost-effective when used.

Think about Barbaric Blows, Strike the Bell, the various Paladin Commands, etc...

They are 2+ cost abilities that feel totally right IMHO (Unbending, Clear Out, Blinding Strikes, Vanishing Strikes, Reviving Exhortation...) 

For Tier VIII-IX, the problem is even bigger since these abilities are supposed to be a reward for going SC, but low cost abilities are still better in many cases. For example, Driving Roar (which is a mere upgrade)  is arguably the best Barbarian ability simply because it costs 1 and isn't that worse compared to HoF or Instruments of Boundless Rage.
 

In the specific case of Into the Fray, I feel this is a tactital tool that should cost about the same as basic mobility ability such as Escape or Evasive Roll.

 

Quote

No, every opinion is appreciated.

I know but here I'm speaking about things I plan to mod myself 

I want to start from what CP has already done, so I feel concerned about overlapping, but I will create my own thread about my mod.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Phenomenum]

@Boeroer Nonono, i mean only this section - unique abilities for each Priest subclass:

Priests:
All Priest subclasses now have a unique passive bonus. These also apply to enemy Priests.

If you are loading an existing save, you will have to respec your character to gain the bonuses for Berath, Eothas, Woedica and Gaun. The rest should apply to existing characters.
 

• Berath: When scoring a Hit with a Decay attack, or when an ally or enemy falls in combat, gain increased Power Level on the next Restoration or Rejuvenation ability used.
  
• Eothas: When under an Inspiration effect, nearby allies gain Resistance to Resolve Afflictions. When under a Protection effect, nearby allies receive increased healing.
  
• Magran: On scoring a hit with a weapon, gain bonus Armor Rating and Concentration for 15 seconds, and bonus Accuracy on the next Fire or Punishment attack. On scoring a hit with a Fire or Punishment attack, the Priest and all allies gain bonus Accuracy and Penetration on their next weapon attack.
  
• Skaen: Condemnation and Punishment attacks gain bonus Accuracy from stealth, invisibility, or against Sneak Attack targets. From stealth, invisibility or against Sneak Attack targets, Punishment attacks deal additional Raw damage over time.
  
• Wael: Deception, Mind and Illusion attacks Interrupt against Sneak Attack targets. When missed by an attack, the Priest has a chance to gain duration on beneficial effects.
  
• Woedica: Targets hit by Condemnation or Punishment attacks suffer increased damage and Interrupt the next time they take damage. Allies near targets hit by Condemnation or Punishment attacks have Intellect Afflictions cleared.
  
• Harvester of Gaun: When scoring a Hit with a Plant attack, or when an ally or enemy falls in combat, gain increased Power Level and Action Speed on the next Inspiration or Protection ability used.
  
• Rymrgand: Targets hit with Decay, Frost or Poison attacks suffer increased duration of hostile effects. Targets Crit by Decay, Frost or Poison attacks additionally suffer penalties to Armor Rating and Action Speed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other tweaks in this mod (Keywords etc.) quite unbalanced.

 

[Phenomenum]

As  for Priests spells, i remember that you wanted to do a second Wizards from Priests with identical grimoure mechanic, i've stand opposed and Max... well, he was somewhere in the middle.

[Boeroer]

So in order to not make it identical I opted for less broad spell choice but other features instead (like completely new spells or spells from other classes or specific PL bonuses) instead - in order to give the trinkets more flavour and story than simply being trinket a, b and c - like most grimoires are.

Reason is that the underlying mechanic of grimoires (broadening spell choice) is exactly what Priest as a class needs (and Druids, too - but to a lesser exend). That was my whole motivation for trinkets: to stop the level-up-railroad of Priests.  

Edited January 21, 2020 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

So in order to not make it identical I opted for less broad spell choice but other features instead (like completely new spells or spells from other classes or specific PL bonuses) instead - in order to give the trinkets more flavour and story than simply being trinket a, b and c - like most grimoires are.

Reason is that the underlying mechanic of grimoires (broadening spell choice) is exactly what Priest as a class needs (and Druids, too - but to a lesser exend). That was my whole motivation for trinkets: to stop the level-up-railroad of Priests.  

Ok, let's think again. I'm interested with this and we can discuss it here to make some "to do" list, and i can start doing something on weekend. I should also check my own notes... And maybe try to contact with Max and ask his permission, in case if he don't want to be involved in modding.

In any case, we can do some nice little things.

[Boeroer]

Cool. I also voted for trinkets because I guess(?) it's very easy to just copy the grimoire stuff and alter it than coming up with something completely new.

I also have to say I like to think we would somehow "finish" the work of the devs who wanted to introduce trinkets for every class but couldn't.

I think you could do so much nice stuff with them without messing with the game mechanics of (sub-)classes directly. 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Boeroer