Opinion on the game from an old BG2 fan

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

u know a couple of things have got me wondering - how useful is 'difficulty' as an unqualified measure? like games can test ur mechanical skill, metagame knowledge, strategical skill, tactical skill, memorisation, consistency, persistence, adaptability etc.

 

Metagame knowledge is easier to acquire now. Internet far more efficient and accessible beast than it was at turn of century. what was hard then is easy now bcs u type problem into google and instantly acquire forum thread and exhaustive wiki. even unpopular games are likely to have their guts laid bare.

 

im aware such information was always available if one was willing to put work in, but i might refer to own situation: had no personal broadband connection until about 2004ish? Could access internet through other means but it required effort.

 

So i dont feel is possible now for modern game to replicate experience of playing, say, bg1 with no internet connection. The games difficulty is largely result of gated knowledge which is now instantly accessible for many players.

 

I think is now much harder for (non-mechanical single player) games to be er... harder without properly twisting the knife and alienating potential audience, which is more fickle and has more options than in past.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Hmm, I play with an experience reduction mod and don't experience this at all, I also play with the companions, and don't make a custom party.  I have had some of the most epic fights in Deadfire - I mean I have said this before but nothing beats winning that fight against the zombie Guls and the ones that explode in the Undercity of Neketaka with one man standing and actually having to use Empowers for spells!!  So much fun ...

 

I mean on PoTD I don't buy the argument that its too easy - I am level 15 and 16 right now and just got my party wiped out in BoW by making one bad choice in the battle - I know I can beat the fight but still it isn't a cake walk.  Of course could it be more challenging - heck yeah and am totally down for more but I don't buy that the game is easy.

 

Edit:  I agree that the combat in Deadfire isn't your typical D&D style combat where it is a puzzle to figure out - it is different maybe a little pushed towards an action style of play, but that being said in many ways I enjoy it more

Edited February 11, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[bringingyouthefuture]

I would add too as I kid growing up playing AD&D computer games - I found BG1/BG2 pretty easy on normal difficulty - I think there is one demon fight I skipped from the expansion - but never ran into too much trouble ... Later on playing on the hardest it was still pretty easy, never played with mods as poster is discussing - but from what I have read BG2 was only great because of the mods, the base game was always so-so  ...  Now if you want to talk about a real challenge - Pools Of Radiance - the first fight against the troll, I think it took me a good couple weeks to figure that fight out

Edited February 11, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[merkmerk73]

The Pirates! comparison is not entirely fair, because Pirates! was built around naval combat, whereas it's just a small feature of Deadfire. However, it is true -- and as far as I know, generally agreed upon -- that the naval combat in Deadfire is pretty bad. I understand it was meant to be more extensive, but something happened along the way.

 

I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't mind the naval combat at all, my only real criticism of it is that the system probably cost a lot of development time and energy that may have been better spent elsehwere.

 

I mean, do we expect them to build an elaborate ship combat system for a game that is an isometric IE inspired game? Well no, of course not

 

What's there is already pretty complex - with the crew / cannons and maybe loses a little steam where the ship battles become a text-adventure 

[merkmerk73]

I play potd upscaled with deadly deadfire and a few god challenges.

I regulary die at lvl20 using story companions the best way I can, but without using cheesy builds or exploiting broken mechanics.

I'm a veteran to this types of games, having finished the BG trilogy with SCS multiple times, IWD in heart of winter mode, DoS1/2 in tactician, etc.

PoE2 in this configuration is overall more difficult, BG2 had some difficulty spikes but once you figured it out, most of the game was a cakewalk.

 

Complaining about difficulty without using some the many ways to increase it is somewhat strange.

Also, try the deadly deadfire mod.

 

 

I agree 100%. The difficulty complaints are absurd. If you want to break the game by rolling a custom party with a bunch of stupid 20/20/3/20/3/3 type builds, then that's your fault. If you want to try and find the most overpowered multiclass and spam combusting wounds + wall of fire or w/e to beat every encounter, that's on you.

 

I play with story companions and use a mixed party and with POTD and level scaling the fights are very hard - in fact I just barely beat the first blight boss in SSS with my level 17/18 party - everyone was out of gas, consumables were used, and he was barely finished with some under-penetrating arrow shots from my last couple guys standing.

[Cartoons Plural]

1. do people not realize the game you played as a kid seemed harder because you were a kid

 

2. every game ever has a board somewhere with about 12 dudes who post constantly complaining it's too easy. if the extremely hard niche game is too easy I suggest trying to learn how to play an instrument or something

 

personally I'm frustrated by how hard the dragon fight is on heart of winter and the fact that the other dlc is EVEN HARDER. I want to have FUN thanks guys for the constant complaints about difficulty now the DLC can only be finished by 1 percent of the audience

Edited February 11, 2019 by Cartoons Plural

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't mind the naval combat at all, my only real criticism of it is that the system probably cost a lot of development time and energy that may have been better spent elsehwere.

 

ye, i didnt mind it at all. was a fun little time-waster, similar to one of those jrpg mini games or the 1001 things u have to do in WoW these days. i did enjoy naming my ship 'the leng' and mindlessly sinking everything in sight with double bronzers. if nothing else it added flavour to the setting without getting in the way of anything important.

 

personally I'm frustrated by how hard the dragon fight is on heart of winter and the fact that the other dlc is EVEN HARDER. I want to have FUN thanks guys for the constant complaints about difficulty now the DLC can only be finished by 1 percent of the audience

 

dlc does force u to hit the books, but im sure you can get to grips with it and find enough wriggle-room to express urself and muck about. im an idiot, and i got through it all in the end. was able to enjoy combat better from what id learnt.

 

but from what I have read BG2 was only great because of the mods, the base game was always so-so  ... 

 

im one of the first to get ratty when peeps lionise bg2 at expense of progress - and efforts of devs currently making a living from crpgs. regardless, i think bg2's a wonderful big-hearted game that id recommend with little reserve. its enthusiasm overshadows many of its peccadilloes imo.

[asnjas]

I dont know if anyone played the viking expedition rpg but that game did a great job of moving the game forward regardless of player succees or failure. For better or worse, there was never a reason to restart and no game overs: the story always moved forward. The story slightly changed based on you failed or succeeded.

[xzar_monty]

So i dont feel is possible now for modern game to replicate experience of playing, say, bg1 with no internet connection. The games difficulty is largely result of gated knowledge which is now instantly accessible for many players.

 

That's a fair point. However, there are also players (like me) who specifically won't go on the net looking for the best loot locations etc. because they want to discover stuff themselves and feel that checking out stuff on the net would ruin the game.

[xzar_monty]

1. do people not realize the game you played as a kid seemed harder because you were a kid

 

You may have been a kid when you played BG, and there's nothing wrong with that. But do not base your arguments on the idea that your experience is universal. There's plenty of people who were definitely not kids when they played BG. Maybe some of them already had kids when they played BG, you know.

Edited February 12, 2019 by xzar_monty

[ArnoldRimmer]

1. do people not realize the game you played as a kid seemed harder because you were a kid

 

2. every game ever has a board somewhere with about 12 dudes who post constantly complaining it's too easy. if the extremely hard niche game is too easy I suggest trying to learn how to play an instrument or something

 

personally I'm frustrated by how hard the dragon fight is on heart of winter and the fact that the other dlc is EVEN HARDER. I want to have FUN thanks guys for the constant complaints about difficulty now the DLC can only be finished by 1 percent of the audience

Yeah that dragon is hard... and whats worse - you can't leave until you kill it I went there too early and didn't know this, by the time I found out loads of autosaves had been overwritten and I had to go back to save from two hours before. I found it best to use Arcane Dampner on it to bring down it's buffs.

 

I'm disappointed with the DLC, it seems to require min-maxed characters that are designed to exploit game mechanics or require a chanter to spam skeletons for 40 minutes. This content isn't for people who RP or who don't min-max, it's for people who have the time on their hands to spend a whole day on one fight or for people who want to test out builds. Personally I don't.

 

They should have given it away to all the arch-mages on this board... most of the DLC I will never see as it is too hard. Yeah I could start a game on veteran but then a lot is too easy, plus it's another 60+ hours of playing just to get to the DLC

Edited February 12, 2019 by ArnoldRimmer

[xzar_monty]

 

1. do people not realize the game you played as a kid seemed harder because you were a kid

 

2. every game ever has a board somewhere with about 12 dudes who post constantly complaining it's too easy. if the extremely hard niche game is too easy I suggest trying to learn how to play an instrument or something

 

personally I'm frustrated by how hard the dragon fight is on heart of winter and the fact that the other dlc is EVEN HARDER. I want to have FUN thanks guys for the constant complaints about difficulty now the DLC can only be finished by 1 percent of the audience

I'm disappointed with the DLC, it seems to require min-maxed characters that are designed to exploit game mechanics or require a chanter to spam skeletons for 40 minutes. This content isn't for people who RP or who don't min-max, it's for people who have the time on their hands to spend a whole day on one fight or for people who want to test out builds. Personally I don't.

 

I can vouch that you are wrong. I never min-max, I don't even know the game mechanics well enough to exploit them and I've never had a chanter in this game. I just role-play.

 

However, the dragon is hard. Not as hard as the alpine dragon in PoE, but it is hard. It looks manageable in the beginning, but once it starts casting that protection spell, things become considerably more difficult and you're going to need plenty of wit and resources. Also, the three helpers you may have gathered along the way can prove invaluable. I only had one of them, because I had apparently been overly generous during the DLC, but he turned out to be extremely useful.

Edited February 12, 2019 by xzar_monty

[Verde]

1. do people not realize the game you played as a kid seemed harder because you were a kid

 

2. every game ever has a board somewhere with about 12 dudes who post constantly complaining it's too easy. if the extremely hard niche game is too easy I suggest trying to learn how to play an instrument or something

 

personally I'm frustrated by how hard the dragon fight is on heart of winter and the fact that the other dlc is EVEN HARDER. I want to have FUN thanks guys for the constant complaints about difficulty now the DLC can only be finished by 1 percent of the audience

You have no room to complain when there are difficulty levels. What more do you want? Edited February 12, 2019 by Verde

[bringingyouthefuture]

but from what I have read BG2 was only great because of the mods, the base game was always so-so  ... 

 

im one of the first to get ratty when peeps lionise bg2 at expense of progress - and efforts of devs currently making a living from crpgs. regardless, i think bg2's a wonderful big-hearted game that id recommend with little reserve. its enthusiasm overshadows many of its peccadilloes imo.

 

 

Sorry wasn't clear in my post, wasn't referring to the game, was just referring to the combat -- oh BG2, you're like that best friend from middle school who was the first to kiss a girl ...

[Verde]

BG2's combat was mostly dependent upon casters, but it was multilayered and fun so it worked. I also liked how having a Thief was almost mandatory for dungeon diving and you could cast spells OUTside of combat.

[mydnightscrivener]

BG2's combat was mostly dependent upon casters, but it was multilayered and fun so it worked. I also liked how having a Thief was almost mandatory for dungeon diving and you could cast spells OUTside of combat.

Try Pathfinder Kingmaker.

[Verde]

 

BG2's combat was mostly dependent upon casters, but it was multilayered and fun so it worked. I also liked how having a Thief was almost mandatory for dungeon diving and you could cast spells OUTside of combat.

Try Pathfinder Kingmaker.

I've heard scary things. I may wait for a year or more to let it settle.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Verde

[kanisatha]

 

 

BG2's combat was mostly dependent upon casters, but it was multilayered and fun so it worked. I also liked how having a Thief was almost mandatory for dungeon diving and you could cast spells OUTside of combat.

Try Pathfinder Kingmaker.

I've heard scary things. I may wait for a year or more to let it settle.

The scary claims are overblown. The game is in a perfectly playable state and is truly very good. But it does not hold your hand.

[bugarup]

 

The scary claims are overblown. The game is in a perfectly playable state and is truly very good. But it does not hold your hand.

 

 

It does hold your feet though. 

[xzar_monty]

The game is good, I agree, but the writing is extremely clichéd, basically pulp. With plenty of exclamation marks, too! So coming to it from Deadfire may feel... surprising.

 

And yes, you don't walk very fast at all.

[kanisatha]

The game is good, I agree, but the writing is extremely clichéd, basically pulp. With plenty of exclamation marks, too! So coming to it from Deadfire may feel... surprising.

 

And yes, you don't walk very fast at all.

Hey that's just the way Russians talk. They're trying to translate talking with your hands to text, so lot's of exclamations.

[xzar_monty]

 

The game is good, I agree, but the writing is extremely clichéd, basically pulp. With plenty of exclamation marks, too! So coming to it from Deadfire may feel... surprising.

 

And yes, you don't walk very fast at all.

Hey that's just the way Russians talk. They're trying to translate talking with your hands to text, so lot's of exclamations.

 

 

You're talking about stereotypical South Europeans now, Italians especially.

[Manveru123]

 

The game is good, I agree, but the writing is extremely clichéd, basically pulp. With plenty of exclamation marks, too! So coming to it from Deadfire may feel... surprising.

 

And yes, you don't walk very fast at all.

Hey that's just the way Russians talk. They're trying to translate talking with your hands to text, so lot's of exclamations.

 

RUSH B

[bugarup]

The game is good, I agree, but the writing is extremely clichéd, basically pulp. With plenty of exclamation marks, too! So coming to it from Deadfire may feel... surprising.

 

Having finished it recently...yeah. Game good, but writing is absolutely its weakest point. Bugs can (and will) be squashed, absence of speed and things like Y U NO STACK, COLLECTIBLES?!!?! can be modded in, but writing is there to stay forever. And that's a bummer because the stories themselves are often good and a good wordsmith could make them shine. Alas, poor Yorick.

 

Oh! Speaking of wordsmiths. I vaguely remember Avellone being associated with Kingmaker in their Kickstarter campaign, no? In that case I'd be a wee embarrassed if I were him. Enough to double down on boozing (and then drunkenly post silly buggers on social media).

Edited February 19, 2019 by bugarup

[xzar_monty]

I also understand that Avellone has something to do with P:K. You'd never guess from the writing. I wonder what the truth is, there.