Update #58 - The Forgotten Sanctum Preview

[Khagmas]

I would like to see interesting and worthwhile subclasses, not necessarily only one for each class. Hope the Wizard's subclasses will fixed it. They are broken now and better to play without them.

For the Rogues, I personally would like to see something like that:

Rogue, The Adventurer Subclass - "The Adventurers are accustomed to be on the road and often fall into various dangers in their travels. They have learned how to inflict the strongest deadly attacks to opponents, but the battle is exhausting them."

Bonus:
+2 Penetration on the Critical Hits;
+50% Critical Hit Damage;

Penalty:
-2 Accuracy and +5% Recovery Time for every outcoming Сritical Hit to the Battle's End. (Not more than -20 and +50% respectively);

-2 Deflection, Fortitude, Reflex and Will for every incoming Critical Hit to the Battle's End. (Not more than -20);

 

P.S: I can write my own vision of the subclasses of the Wizards, if anyone is interested.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Khagmas

[lorddarkflare]

Can we have a do-over on Magran's challenge?

 

A full god-run sounds perfect except for hers. Hers just seems annoying.

 

At the very least a per-battle pause budget would be a much better implementation.

[InsaneCommander]

Looks like they won't be reusing any of the unique companion subclasses, which in my book is a huge plus.

 

I didn't expect this, but it's good to see some indication that we'll get something new.

 

P.S: I can write my own vision of the subclasses of the Wizards, if anyone is interested.

 

I am.

[Logos]

 

This has been the dlc I've been looking forward to the most since they were first announced. To hear that we will be getting an extra wizard subclass out of it as well is great!

Why? The sub-classes of wizards are bad. You lose access to 2 schools for 2 power levels. If it were +10 PL, i would say ok, but +2 is not enough. That needs a complete rework.

 

 

Because, other than Evoker, the wizard sub-classes are bad, and wizard is my favorite class. I have hope that the new wizard subclass will be interesting to play. 

[bringingyouthefuture]

Only 3 weeks to finish my first playthrough - and then to start a new chapter with a new character ... hehe

 

EDIT:  I bet they up the spell number for priests in the challenge, but not for wizards bwahahaha!

Edited November 21, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[thelee]

 

 

 

 

This has been the dlc I've been looking forward to the most since they were first announced. To hear that we will be getting an extra wizard subclass out of it as well is great!

Why? The sub-classes of wizards are bad. You lose access to 2 schools for 2 power levels. If it were +10 PL, i would say ok, but +2 is not enough. That needs a complete rework.

 

 

+10 PL is way too obscene.

 

The subclasses aren't really that bad. They are more niche. If all you do is focus in on your specialized school, you are strictly better than a normal wizard in every way possible. Try rolling an evoker, transmute, or illusionist. Conjurers and enchanters need some help because PL scaling is really bad for buffs and summons.

 

I haven't tried them personally, but I would think that Illusionists suffer more than Conjurers.  The vast majority of illusions just get duration and (for the debuffs) tiny ACC boosts from a higher PL.  Conjurers at least have some staple spells that benefit from the PL scaling on Damage and Penetration (NecLance, NoxBurst, the Walls, etc.).  Are there even Illusions that do direct damage besides Wall of Many Colors? 

 

(That said, the non-spell specialization benefit and excluded schools probably both favor Illusionists.)

 

Concelhaut's Crushing Doom are illusion spell

 

 

Kalakoth's Freezing Rake is illusion as well. (Noxious Burst is transmutation, not conjuration. and I think only Wall of Force and Draining are conjuration. Flame is evocation, Many Colors is illusion).

 

Also, getting tiny multiplicative debuff duration buffs is not bad if the base durations are short and the effect is powerful. It just is a little worse for many conjuration/enchanting spells because the base durations for many wizard buffs/summons are already soooo long, that an extra +10% on something you already have going for almost a minute is not really that great. Meanwhile, squeaking out an extra second from Gaze of the Adragon (also illusion) or an extra prone from Slicken (transmutation) is really powerful. That being said, both the conjurer and enchanter have semi-decent secondary bonuses (Conjurer especially - their summoned familiar is guaranteed to get you a stacking +1 PL buff on top of +3 to a random stat and some other bonus).

 

Evocation is still king because evocation spells get way too good of a boost from +2 PL (especially multi-projectile spells) and their special wizard subclass bonus (the echo chance) is amazeballs. The echo chance alone would be worth being an evoker, TBH. (Also evokers [and conjurers] get the extra secret buff that the +10% recovery penalty is only half as bad as other specializations because most enchantment spells have no recovery to speak of.)

Edited November 21, 2018 by thelee

[Khagmas]

 

P.S: I can write my own vision of the subclasses of the Wizards, if anyone is interested.

 

I am.

 

 

Ok. First I will write what could be done with the available subclasses. The basic idea is simply that the subclass does not block access to the spells of other schools, but only weakens them.

 

1) Wizard, The Conjurer:

 

Bonus: +2 Power Level with Conjuration Spells.

Gain "Conjure Familiar" spell: Summons a helpful creature to aid the wizard. Familiars are poor at combat, but provide passive bonuses to their master.

 

 Penalty: Lose access to spells from Evocation and Illusion schools. -2 Power Level with Evocation and Illusion Spells.

+20% Recovery Time for Wizard Spells not of the Conjuration School.

 

2) Wizard, The Evoker:

 

Bonus: +2 Power Level with Evocation Spells.

Your evocation spells have a small chance to "echo", reapplying their damage and effects to their targets again, instantly.

 

 Penalty: Lose access to spells from Transmutation and Conjuration schools. -2 Power Level with Transmutation and Conjuration Spells.

+20% Recovery Time for Wizard Spells not of the Evocation School.

 

3) Wizard, The Enchanter:

 

  Bonus: +2 Power Level with Enchanting Spells.

Gain "Free Action" passive: Once per encounter, when the wizard is affected by a Dexterity Affliction, they will clear that effect and become temporarily immune to Dexterity Afflictions.

 

 Penalty: Lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools. -2 Power Level with Illusion and Transmutation Spells.

+20% Recovery Time for Wizard Spells not of the Enchanting School.

 

4) Wizard, The Illusionist:

 

Bonus: +2 Power Level with Illusion Spells.

Gain "Reflexive Mirror" passive: Once per encounter, when first attacked, automatically gain the effects of the spell "Mirrored Images".

 

 Penalty: Lose access to spells from Conjuration and Enchanting schools. -2 Power Level with Conjuration and Enchanting Spells.

+20% Recovery Time for Wizard Spells not of the Illusion School.

 

5) Wizard, The Transmuter:

 

Bonus: +2 Power Level with Transmutation Spells.

Gain "Form of the Fearsome Brute" spell: Transforms the wizard into an Ogre. While in this form, spells are disabled, but physical attributes are increased.

 

 Penalty: Lose access to spells from Enchanting and Evocation schools. -2 Power Level with Enchanting and Evocation Spells.

+20% Recovery Time for Wizard Spells not of the Transmutation School.

 

 

Secondly, it is an example of the Wizard's subclass:

 

Wizard, The Soultaker: "Soultakers quite well and skillfully use spells in battle, but their combat techniques are very peculiar. Using the power of the surrounding souls to enhance spells, they pay for it with a piece of life force."

 

Bonus:

+1 Power Level for all Wizard Spells;

20% of the Misses convert to Grazes, 15% of the Grazes convert to Hits and 10% of the Hits convert to Crits for all Wizard Spells; (or -20% Recovery Time for all Wizard Spells)

 

Penalty:

Every Wizard Spells coasts 5% of Max. Health;

Healing spells restore to 20% less health for self.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Khagmas

[Logos]

 

Secondly, it is an example of the magician subclass:

 

Wizard, The Sorcerer: "Sorcerers quite well and skillfully use spells in battle, but their combat techniques are very peculiar. Using the power of the surrounding souls to enhance spells, they pay for it with a piece of their own life force."

 

Bonus:

+1 Power Level to Transmutation, Enchanting, Illusion, Evocation and Conjuration Schools;

+20% Recovery Time for all Wizard Spells;

 

Penalty:

Every Spell coast 5% of Max. Health;

All incoming damage increase to 5%;

 

 

No-one would pick this. The penalties are way too harsh, and the bonuses can be replicated investing in dex, picking nature godlike as your race, and setting up the AI to cast "infuse with vital essence" at the start of every combat.

[ShadySands]

I'll take a wizard subclass that's essentially a D&D warlock.

[Khagmas]

 

No-one would pick this. The penalties are way too harsh, and the bonuses can be replicated investing in dex, picking nature godlike as your race, and setting up the AI to cast "infuse with vital essence" at the start of every combat.

 

This is a draft, I could not use the Sorcerer, since one of the subclasses has this name (Wizard+Druid).

[Frak]

Yeah, well, but will it be possible to change subclass without restart?

 

Probably not. At least, I would not bet on it.

[Logos]

 

 

No-one would pick this. The penalties are way too harsh, and the bonuses can be replicated investing in dex, picking nature godlike as your race, and setting up the AI to cast "infuse with vital essence" at the start of every combat.

 

This is a draft, I could not use the Sorcerer, since one of the subclasses has this name (Wizard+Druid).

 

 

The name is not the relevant thing here. Mechanically, it would be a horrible choice. It'd be like playing an Illusionist/Priest of Berath. No synergy whatsoever, and penalties hampering both things you're supposed to do: healing and debuffing. 

[thelee]

 

 

 

No-one would pick this. The penalties are way too harsh, and the bonuses can be replicated investing in dex, picking nature godlike as your race, and setting up the AI to cast "infuse with vital essence" at the start of every combat.

 

This is a draft, I could not use the Sorcerer, since one of the subclasses has this name (Wizard+Druid).

 

 

The name is not the relevant thing here. Mechanically, it would be a horrible choice. It'd be like playing an Illusionist/Priest of Berath. No synergy whatsoever, and penalties hampering both things you're supposed to do: healing and debuffing. 

 

 

what's wrong with illusionist/priest of berath? it's probably not super synergistic, but it's also not bad. there are no relevant penalties. (i've contemplated rolling one just as a flavorful lich-type mainchar)

 

edit: and actually, illusionist gives up conjuration and enchantment. priest of berath adds back in buffing and summoned weapons, so in that sense it is at least somewhat synergistic. 

 

edit 2: and also while i'm not too keen on debating purely speculative kit ideas, your critiques are almost objectively wrong. +1 bonus PL can't be "replicated" by a nature godlike, because it would stack with any nature godlike, so you could be a nature godlike and this proposed class for +2 PL. Same thing with the recovery time bonus (which I assume was meant to be a -20% recovery time bonus or a +20% action speed bonus; either way it's massive). There's nothing stopping you from having high dex and a casting speed bonus. Incoming damage increase by 5% is frankly puny and way too little for getting such a hugely universal PL bonus and casting speed bonus (and with access to enchantment and illusion you shouldn't be getting hit that much anyway). Spell casting 5% of your max health is a drawback, but one that is pretty easy to trivialize with some metagaming (and can be advantageously taken advantage of in certain setups). Sounds like a completely plausible kit to me. In fact, I would actually say it's too good as it is.

Edited November 21, 2018 by thelee

[Khagmas]

The name is not the relevant thing here. Mechanically, it would be a horrible choice. It'd be like playing an Illusionist/Priest of Berath. No synergy whatsoever, and penalties hampering both things you're supposed to do: healing and debuffing. 

 

 

I do not see in this version any terrible. The only mechanically terrible at this stage is blocking the spells of other schools from Wizard's subclasses.

 

Wizard, The Soultaker: "Soultakers quite well and skillfully use spells in battle, but their combat techniques are very peculiar. Using the power of the surrounding souls to enhance spells, they pay for it with a piece of life force."

 

Bonus:

+1 Power Level for all Wizard Spells;

20% of the Misses convert to Grazes, 15% of the Grazes convert to Hits and 10% of the Hits convert to Crits for all Wizard Spells; (or -20% Recovery Time for all Wizard Spells)

 

Penalty:

Every Wizard Spells coasts 5% of Max. Health;

Healing spells restore to 20% less health for self.

 

 

Rogue, The Adventurer: "The Adventurers are accustomed to be on the road and often fall into various dangers in their travels. They have learned how to inflict the strongest deadly attacks to opponents, but the battle is exhausting them."

 

Bonus:

+2 Penetration on the Critical Hits;

+50% Critical Hit Damage;

 

Penalty:

-2 Accuracy and +5% Recovery Time for every outcoming Сritical Hit to the Battle's End. (Not more than -20 and +50% respectively);

-2 Deflection, Fortitude, Reflex and Will for every incoming Critical Hit to the Battle's End. (Not more than -20);

 

These are just interesting mechanics, the numbers do not have to be these. Right?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Khagmas

[Logos]

 

 

 

 

No-one would pick this. The penalties are way too harsh, and the bonuses can be replicated investing in dex, picking nature godlike as your race, and setting up the AI to cast "infuse with vital essence" at the start of every combat.

 

This is a draft, I could not use the Sorcerer, since one of the subclasses has this name (Wizard+Druid).

 

 

The name is not the relevant thing here. Mechanically, it would be a horrible choice. It'd be like playing an Illusionist/Priest of Berath. No synergy whatsoever, and penalties hampering both things you're supposed to do: healing and debuffing. 

 

 

what's wrong with illusionist/priest of berath? 

 

 

The powerlevel of both classes. 

 

My comment about nature godlike powerlevels was in reference to the suggested +1 pl the special class would provide in the scenario the poster imagined in his original quote. Given your lack of reading, I'm not gonna bother responding further. 

[thelee]

 

 

 

 

 

No-one would pick this. The penalties are way too harsh, and the bonuses can be replicated investing in dex, picking nature godlike as your race, and setting up the AI to cast "infuse with vital essence" at the start of every combat.

 

This is a draft, I could not use the Sorcerer, since one of the subclasses has this name (Wizard+Druid).

 

 

The name is not the relevant thing here. Mechanically, it would be a horrible choice. It'd be like playing an Illusionist/Priest of Berath. No synergy whatsoever, and penalties hampering both things you're supposed to do: healing and debuffing. 

 

 

what's wrong with illusionist/priest of berath? 

 

 

The powerlevel of both classes. 

 

My comment about nature godlike powerlevels was in reference to the suggested +1 pl the special class would provide in the scenario the poster imagined in his original quote. Given your lack of reading, I'm not gonna bother responding further. 

 

 

Apparently you lack reading comprehension, because I accounted for that in my response. +1 PL from nature, +1 from that proposed subclass = +2. Not something that can be "replicated" by nature godlike, because class bonuses don't replace anything or get suppressed; they stack additively.

 

The power level of both classes in an illusionist/priest of berath is fine and is no different from any other multiclass. and again, there's no relevant penalties.

 

At this point given your flippant flouncing, I have to assume you actually know very little about what you're talking about.

[Logos]

 

 

 

 

 

 

No-one would pick this. The penalties are way too harsh, and the bonuses can be replicated investing in dex, picking nature godlike as your race, and setting up the AI to cast "infuse with vital essence" at the start of every combat.

 

This is a draft, I could not use the Sorcerer, since one of the subclasses has this name (Wizard+Druid).

 

 

The name is not the relevant thing here. Mechanically, it would be a horrible choice. It'd be like playing an Illusionist/Priest of Berath. No synergy whatsoever, and penalties hampering both things you're supposed to do: healing and debuffing. 

 

 

what's wrong with illusionist/priest of berath? 

 

 

The powerlevel of both classes. 

 

My comment about nature godlike powerlevels was in reference to the suggested +1 pl the special class would provide in the scenario the poster imagined in his original quote. Given your lack of reading, I'm not gonna bother responding further. 

 

 

Apparently you lack reading comprehension, because I accounted for that in my response. +1 PL from nature, +1 from that proposed subclass = +2. Not something that can be "replicated" by nature godlike, because class bonuses don't replace anything or get suppressed; they stack additively.

 

The power level of both classes in an illusionist/priest of berath is fine and is no different from any other multiclass. and again, there's no relevant penalties.

 

At this point given your flippant flouncing, I have to assume you actually know very little about what you're talking about.

 

 

ok

[Khagmas]

ok

Dear Sirs, can you please do not copy 'multiple-quote' posts?

 

Thank.

[Heijoushin]

Sweet! The new subclass announcement has totally reinvigorated my hype! 

[thelee]

 

ok

Dear Sirs, can you please do not copy 'multiple-quote' posts?

 

Thank.

 

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/10DVcUchEQUdFu/giphy.gif

[Boeroer]

That's why he said "can you please" and not "Do it!".

[InsaneCommander]

Spell casting 5% of your max health is a drawback, but one that is pretty easy to trivialize with some metagaming (and can be advantageously taken advantage of in certain setups).

 

Like if this had a chance to trigger the Brilliant inspiration with that new cape?

[Katarack21]

*crosses fingers hoping for dedicated weapon-summoning wizard subclass*

[Skie Nightfall]

Hmph

The only new feature I'm looking for is the rebalancing of the experience gain XD

[Boeroer]

There are good mods for this. XP gain will not get "rebalanced" significantly because you need to get to (or get near to) level 20 when only doing the critical path.