melee DPS that can beat Mage DPS

[Dorftek]

I am a big fan of Wotep too especially as a monk who get huge int and flurrys

[Boeroer]

Yes, I also tried a monk when I was testing Soul Ann. with it. I think a high lvl monk is actually better with it than a Soulblade because of bigger AoE, the additonal lash and the additional attacks that frequently proc.

 

However, you can use Soul Annihilation right away from lvl 1. 

[Haplok]

Maybe both then? A Soulblade Transcendent.

 

Although Duality doesn't stack with Smart AFAIR, so if a Mindstalker can get Acute from a friendly Priest, he wouldn't be too far off. And aoe Break the Bell Dazed effect could be a solid defense. Trickster or Streetfighter though? Trickster is kinda slow with two-handers. Going Streetfighter could solve this issue. But then so would a monk. Perhaps a Shadowdancer then? Eh.

 

Edit: Well, apparently sneak attack bonus (and Streetfighter bonus) factor in SA calculations. So that would put the rogue (and particularly Streetfighter) ahead of the monk.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Haplok

[Haplok]

What is everybody's opinion, what is the better fit for a two-handed Soulblade Mindstalker, a Streetfighter or a Trickster? Or perhaps an Assassin?

[Kaylon]

Yes, I also tried a monk when I was testing Soul Ann. with it. I think a high lvl monk is actually better with it than a Soulblade because of bigger AoE, the additonal lash and the additional attacks that frequently proc.

 

However, you can use Soul Annihilation right away from lvl 1. 

Deep Wounds + Sneak Attack + Deathblows + Various Bleeds >> All monk bonuses (without mentioning that Sneak Attack + Deathblows helps gaining focus much faster and also increase SA damage). 

[mant2si]

 

Yes, I also tried a monk when I was testing Soul Ann. with it. I think a high lvl monk is actually better with it than a Soulblade because of bigger AoE, the additonal lash and the additional attacks that frequently proc.

 

However, you can use Soul Annihilation right away from lvl 1. 

Deep Wounds + Sneak Attack + Deathblows + Various Bleeds >> All monk bonuses (without mentioning that Sneak Attack + Deathblows helps gaining focus much faster and also increase SA damage). 

 

Yeah, for Soulblade Sneak Attack + DD is really good combination

[Boeroer]

I think it depends on the enemy. I was testing against dummies before writing that. One time with that SB/Streetf. and the other time with a Berserker/Monk. Due to the crappy deflection of the dummies the monk did kill the dummies faster. Just because Swift Flurry + Heartbeat leads to +100% multiplicative damage once it procs - and not on a single enemy but it triggers the cone attack again. Then there is the burning lash... The AoE itself also leads to a lot of procs against those low defenses.

 

It also wasn't easy to get flanked for Heating Up and at the same time place the cone perfectly well in order to hit as many enemies as possible.

 

With Torment's Reach and WotEP it's easier to position yourself perfectly well because both are cone-shaped. The stun of TR also helped to produce more crits I presume.

Also Stunning Surge with the WotEP is quite nice (not necessarily in terms of dps but overall usefulness as hard CC in an AoE).

 

Against high defense/high AR I think the monk would be worse.

 

But as I said: Soul Annihilation works from lvl 1 on and profits from Sneak Attack right away. So over the course of a whole playthrough this may be the better pick for dps anyway.

[Haplok]

Eh, it appears that for whatever reason, Strike the Bell only affects the primary target. So there goes my idea to aoe Daze enemies as a form of Defense. Well, eventually you get access to Mind Plague, but its late and I wonder about its usefullness on a Soulblade.

[Boeroer]

For me Secret Horrors is a nice "defensive" tool. Huge AoE and Frightened at least prevents all active ability use. 

[Haplok]

That's true. But autoattacks can still hurt.

[dunehunter]

Eh, it appears that for whatever reason, Strike the Bell only affects the primary target. So there goes my idea to aoe Daze enemies as a form of Defense. Well, eventually you get access to Mind Plague, but its late and I wonder about its usefullness on a Soulblade.

 

All rogue abilities are fixed to only affect main target in beta. But something like stunning attack from monk is not fixed, imo it's an oversight.

[Boeroer]

They already did this a while ago, during backer beta. For example you couldn't apply Crippling Strike with Blast. But it got reverted. Now again?

[lorddarkflare]

They already did this a while ago, during backer beta. For example you couldn't apply Crippling Strike with Blast. But it got reverted. Now again?

 

Yeah. Not sure when the change was made, but in the 2.1 beta, Rogue status effects only apply to the primary target.

 

Crippled my Mortar build something fierce.

[Boeroer]

Quite unfair if Rogue's strikes only apply to single target while Fighter's Mule Kick or Monk's FoA or Stunning Blows still applies to the AoE.

[lorddarkflare]

Quite unfair if Rogue's strikes only apply to single target while Fighter's Mule Kick or Monk's FoA or Stunning Blows still applies to the AoE.

 

Played around with it more and I think this was a false alarm, at least for the Mortars. Had a mod which cratered my accuracy, but closer inspection of the logs shows that the mortars continue to work as they always have.

 

Pierce the bell worked as expected as well, so I don't know if the issue mentioned earlier is actually true.

[Haplok]

Hm, I tried a lot of times yesterday with Strike the Bell on WotEP. Always affected only 1 target with Dazed. Finishing Strike, Confounding Blind and Crippling Strike worked as expected (I'm still on 2.01).

 

A weird inconsistency. And a shame, as it could be an interesting defensive/offensive strategy for two handed rogues.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Haplok

[dunehunter]

 

Quite unfair if Rogue's strikes only apply to single target while Fighter's Mule Kick or Monk's FoA or Stunning Blows still applies to the AoE.

 

Played around with it more and I think this was a false alarm, at least for the Mortars. Had a mod which cratered my accuracy, but closer inspection of the logs shows that the mortars continue to work as they always have.

 

Pierce the bell worked as expected as well, so I don't know if the issue mentioned earlier is actually true.

 

 

So rogue abilities works in an area with some weapon(Mortars) and some not(WotEP). Seems really confusing to me

[Boeroer]

No, only Strike the Bell.

 

I suspect it has something to do with "two handed attack only" and that maybe the AoE hits don't pass that check.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

Meant Break the Bell of course.

[Boeroer]

Well, something wil "bell" in it.

[MaxQuest]

For me Secret Horrors is a nice "defensive" tool. Huge AoE and Frightened at least prevents all active ability use.

Just wanted to note: "all hostile spells or abilities". Frightened characters can still use buffs, heals, etc. Frightened ciphers can even cast stuff like Soul Shock, since it is ally-targeted.

 

P.S. Just-in-case: rogue strikes with mortar (and other aoe blunderbusses) do apply strike effects to all enemies in the aoe, in v2.0.1.

Edited September 8, 2018 by MaxQuest

[brasilgringo]

 

P.S. Just-in-case: rogue strikes with mortar (and other aoe blunderbusses) do apply strike effects to all enemies in the aoe, in v2.0.1.

 

i thought someone was reporting that this had been "fixed"?

[Boeroer]

That seems to have been false alarm.

[Lampros]

If all the enemies stacked up in one spot and there's no target cap, pure barbarian all the waaaay if it's just melee we're talking about.  Honestly, best really depends on specific criteria.  A mage like a druid or wizard is going to run out of resources eventually in a nonstop marathon battle so melee builds will pull out ahead in that context or if their nukes are against stupid high resistances.  

 

Are there battles that are so long where casters run out of spells? I thought casters no longer need to sleep after every fight?

[Boeroer]

No, they don't have to. But they usually only have 2 casts per spell level per encounter. So at lower levels their actions are rather limited - while weapon based chars can always auto-attack for decent damage.