Poll - Do you like POE1 casting and ability use system better or POE2s

[no1fanboy]

This is a really interesting and important Poll. It was big news when OBS made all the changes from Pillars of Eternity 1 to what we are seeing now on Deadfire.

 

Lets see what the community thinks after now having played both games.

 

Just to refresh everyone's memory:

 

POE1

 

- active abilities where either per rest or per encounter. You could use any ability in any encounter as long as you had it available for use. You had to rest to replenish per rest abilities

- Spells for casters where you could cast a certain amount of spells per level per rest. The amount of spells you could cast per level increased as you gained levels. You had to rest to replenish spells 

 

Deadfire:

 

- Active abilities now compete for resource cost. You can only use abilities until you run out of resource. Resource increases per level. You dont have to rest to replenish resource.

- Spells have been restricted to only two casts per level in every combat encounter. You dont have to rest to replenish spells.

- Empower has been added to increase spells/ abilities effectiveness. You need to rest to replenish empower fully and it can only once per encounter

Edited July 4, 2018 by no1fanboy

[no1fanboy]

If anyone wants me to make any changes to the poll description just post it below and i will change if necessary.

 

Or if i missed something

 

I personally liked POE1 system better becasue i found it far more flexible and had far more options not being restricted to 2 casts only per level. It was very easy to rest and i really enjoyed unleashing hell on my opponents by throwing a whole casters asenal at them. You cant really do that in Deadfire

 

I really liked POE1 active ability system better because you could use all your abilities that  where per encounter every encounter. In Deadfire Im finding there is no point in selecting high level abilities because they just all compete for resource and I never end up using them.

Edited July 4, 2018 by no1fanboy

[anathanielh]

I found camping supplies to be a real hassle to keep buying the further I got into PoE1. They just became a barrier to me using my favorite spells. I still enjoyed the game a great deal, but I rest spammed a ton.

 

I understand that people don’t like being restricted to 2 spells per PL on their spellcasters, but I prefer having access to everything I’m going to use each fight, rather than saving all my spells for a boss or a few fights. I know that’s how DnD does it, but I don’t play DnD. I want my magical bois to use their magic.

 

In deadfire I feel like I can get by with resting less often and I like that.

Edited July 4, 2018 by anathanielh

[Falk Schütze]

I like the Deadfire resource system for martial classes and the PoE1 spell system for casters. Voted PoE1 because I usually play casters.

 

I dislike the Empowerment system for casters. Id favor a larger quantity of metamagic-type spell alterations like extend, maximize, quicken etc.

[Manveru123]

I hated the idea of Camping Supplies so much... resting system in Deadfire is so much better and user friendly.

 

It also makes more sense. I mean why can't my Wizard suddenly cast spells now. Did he forget how to do it and must rest to remember? I think I saw a meme about that dating from 2E AD&D. Let the outdated mechanics die.

[no1fanboy]

Becaue the wizard had to go study his magic. Not to hard to conceive

[Jelei]

I'm mainly a Wizard guy. I voted PoE2. Truth of the matter is quite not so simple. In a way I enjoyed PoE1 better from caster perspective. PoE2 for other classes. Casting as a wizard, priest or druid is as far as I am concerned, the most broken thing about PoE2 right now. And while I enjoyed PoE1 system, I think it was not a good system, by any means. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of moving past really outdated systems. But this current system does not, in my opinion, work.

 

I might be crazy, but I really wish Obsidian had made casters resource-based too. And screw the ****storm that would have followed.

[Aranduin]

I think the best option is PoE1 for Vancian caster y POE2 for the rest classes.

The classic Vancian system dont like me but in PoE1 you dont need choose spell begin the day and have 4 spells for encounter in high level. Maybe need some adjust about number spells or have more skills for encounter (type Arcane Blast). But the new system with only 2 slot for pell level and need spent pointa for learn spella and the new grimoire system dont like me.

 

Mayve you can change to poll for give option to choose between:

-Pure PoE1

-Pure PoE2

-Martial PoE1 or Martial PoE2 / Vancian caster PoE1 or Vancian caster PoE2

 

The cypher and Chante have more or less same system in both games.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Aranduin

[AFA]

I like the Deadfire system better, since my wizard is doing more than wand blasts and the arcane burst attack twice a battle. The spells themselves being nerfed as they are helps balance things out. I thought it would be like the original spell mastery in PoE, where each level became per-encounter use. Good Lord was that broken.

[Blovski]

I think Deadfire's is better. The big deciding factor for me isn't spellcasters, which were a little better balanced against each other in POE 1, but 1/rest and 2/rest (finishing blow, some barbarian stuff etc etc) abilities on other characters just felt awful.

[Celan]

I prefer the PoE1 system. Yes, I had to rest a lot to re-up abilities, but now I stand around during a battle with no spells left to cast. Spells are more limited (playing a druid) and much, much weaker. Priests have been weakened too, so without a chanter I end up forced to play support mage all the time.

 

I don't understand the criticism that buying camping supplies was annoying. Now you have to scrounge for very expensive food ingredients to get a good bonus on resting.

[ThacoBell]

Becaue the wizard had to go study his magic. Not to hard to conceive

That makes zero sense. If you already know how to cast the spell, then you should be able to cast the spell. "Whoops, I suddenly forgot how to cast this spell I just 5 times in a row, time t go completely re-learn it" is incredibly stupid.

[Boeroer]

Yeah - you should never try to justify game mechanics with realism... Like the mechanics of per rest or not because of their advantages/disadvantages - not because you can explain them with real world examples.

[Gregorovitch]

This poll is so depressing. Indicates the community is split right down the middle on the matter. And there is very little hope of solving this becasue those who support per encounter system simply don't understand and therefore do not accept that it has destroyed the challenge, interest and difficulty of the game, the very soul of it really.

 

The only hope really is that Obsidian realise this from the sales figures.

[InsaneCommander]

I prefer the system in PoE1. In Deadfire I can cast Minor Avatar, Storm of Holy Fire, etc every single encounter. I know each person is different, but I played PoE1 without abusing the camping system so, at least for me, per rest casters were better.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I prefer Deadfire's, simply because the system in PoE 1 not only makes the "big three" overpowered but just dominates the game in a very unhealthy way. Tactics begin with "how many of those classes' spells are you willing to blow in this encounter?". The other classes' daily abilities are honestly often pathetic. Yay, I can stab someone twice per day to weaken them. Or I can have a druid do that to the whole enemy group.

 

That being said, I agree that Deadfire's system is this weird in-between thing when it comes to the casting classes. It hasn't been changed much, just scaled down to per-encounter spells. I do think they should have altered it further and maybe even gone whole-hog and dropped this whole pseudo-Vancian casting. Or at least made it a bit more dynamic.

Edited July 4, 2018 by MortyTheGobbo

[lonelornfr]

I personally preferred the POE1 system, that being said i don't think one system is better than the other, it's a matter of preference really :

 

Some people want to be able to use their high level spells or ability often. It makes no sense to them to gain those abilities and then rarely be able to use them. This lead to them having to rest often in POE1, which was tedious. POE2 per encounter system also makes the whole balancing act much easier because developers roughly know how many resources the player has for any given encounter.

 

Some people, like me, actually like the attrition game. It can be fun to try and "solve" most encounters with as little resources as you can. You essentially try to make the most out of every spell or ability. It also makes those big spells that much more impressive when you actually get to use them. Those people didn't find the resting system in POE1 to be a chore, because they didn't rest much anyway.

[Thibax]

I have mix feelings. 

 

I want more spells and I want more uses per encounter. 

 

I want magic all time.

 

I don't like the resting and number restrictions. I am at full power. Always! 

 

Magic is my heart.

[cokane]

PoE1 is better because it creates a more diverse toolkit for the player. As we've seen with balance patches, many of the per rest spells and per rest abilities on non-caster classes have had to be dinged. Fireballs are distinctly less cool in Deadfire than they were in the original, much less the IE games. In fact, converting everything to a similar resource pool has made the classes feel less diverse overall, killing replay value and the fun of build strategies, since most everything is equally good.

[Blovski]

This poll is so depressing. Indicates the community is split right down the middle on the matter. And there is very little hope of solving this becasue those who support per encounter system simply don't understand and therefore do not accept that it has destroyed the challenge, interest and difficulty of the game, the very soul of it really.

 

The only hope really is that Obsidian realise this from the sales figures.

While I think the first game's systems did differentiate different caster types better, resting in POE1 simply doesn't impact on challenge or difficulty unless you houserule it or you can't be bothered to pay the time tax. If you wanted to go into every non-trivial fight with all your stuff , you certainly could. As with many other things, I hope the Magran's Trials stuff that's upcoming will offer some such options.

[mosspit]

Per rest could work well if there was an actual limitations for resting. So it enforces resource management

 

Case in point - some posters mentioned that they accidentally fell through to lvl 5 of Od Nua and tried to get back to the start. However, there was no clear way to the entrance and supplies is scarce so some were legitimately stuck (game over).

 

To do so, I envision certain dungeon segments to lock in the gamer. Thereby restricting the rest items to what the segment itself provides (and what the gamer brought in). Makes spending per rest resources a more difficult decision.

Edited July 4, 2018 by mosspit

[gkathellar]

 

Becaue the wizard had to go study his magic. Not to hard to conceive

That makes zero sense. If you already know how to cast the spell, then you should be able to cast the spell. "Whoops, I suddenly forgot how to cast this spell I just 5 times in a row, time t go completely re-learn it" is incredibly stupid.

 

Vancian memorization assumes that spells are far too complex to learn in any real sense. What it actually consists of is doing the mental work - the real heavy lifting - of casting a spell beforehand, and holding the almost-complete product in one's mind until it's ready to be released. A Vancian caster isn't forgetting something they used to know so much as using their memory for temporary storage.

 

Mind you, that doesn't really make sense in PoE's milieu. But there is a coherent logic to it in D&D.

Edited July 4, 2018 by gkathellar

[no1fanboy]

What Obsidian did for Deadfire in reality is introduce more restrictions. I was gobfounded when i saw what they did. 

 

They removed the Rest restrictions and introduced a whole heap of other restrictions that are even more restrictive then what there was in the first place.

 

I personally think not the smartest move in the world

[Thibax]

Why people is keeping the idea to restrict magic in the games?

 

Let's create a fatigue system for the melee characters.

 

You can hit 3 times with your sword and get tired, so you need to rest to use weapons again. 

[Midnight Voyager]

I liked POE1 better exclusively for grimoires not being like POE2.