Poll - Strongest/ Weakest Class (1.2.0)

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Voted wizard. They have kind of ****ty spells to do damage, but their afflictions are great, plus you can always use weapons to finish them off. I just think that wizzard has the easiest time disabling hordes of enemies at once, despite their last tier of spells.

[Marigoldran]

The problem with ranger is that chanter summons are tankier and do significantly more damage.  

[baldurs_gate_2]

The problem with ranger is that chanter summons are tankier and do significantly more damage.  

No. It's not the chanters fault that the pet is ****. Just buff the pet.

[Celan]

^^^^^

 

Ahh no. Rangers in POE1 where the highest dps class in the game becaue of twin arrow. They even out damaged rogues on single target damage.

 

On another note i think obsidian would probably be happy with these poll results. All classes appear quite balanced apart from rangers and priests.

Druid is significantly weaker in PoE2. Maybe that was intended, but it still sucks.

[knownastherat]

Voted wizard. They have kind of ****ty spells to do damage, but their afflictions are great, plus you can always use weapons to finish them off. I just think that wizzard has the easiest time disabling hordes of enemies at once, despite their last tier of spells.

 

Does anyone care to speculate, beyond the quoted post, why Wizards are most popular in the poll? I am asking because I do not get it and perhaps I play them wrong. 

[Jelei]

 

Voted wizard. They have kind of ****ty spells to do damage, but their afflictions are great, plus you can always use weapons to finish them off. I just think that wizzard has the easiest time disabling hordes of enemies at once, despite their last tier of spells.

 

Does anyone care to speculate, beyond the quoted post, why Wizards are most popular in the poll? I am asking because I do not get it and perhaps I play them wrong. 

 

Well I answered Wizard. Some reasons I have for this is: Compared to the other caster classes: you have 2 extra spell for every power level for free thanks to Grimoires. The other caster classes only get 1. I can't remember a single power level from wizard tree that was absolutely subpar. I think both priest and druids have such power levels, but I'm not too bothered to check up on that. Generally a very good spread of AoE-nukes, singletarget-nukes and best CC in the game (both AoE and single target).

 

Then there is the equipment: Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry is stupid.

 

Wizards are very versatile in the roles they can fill and specialise in -> good multiclass potential.

 

Extremely good PL IX-X abilities, meaning single class isn't out of the consideration.

 

And while in some ways there was a bit of an effort in Deadfire to make the Caster/non-Caster class discrepancy smaller, 2x casts/spell level means you can be constantly casting, if you have something worthwhile to cast. And a Wizards do. You can pick a situational or generic-use spells. and use what you need. That's my take on it at least.

[knownastherat]

 

 

Voted wizard. They have kind of ****ty spells to do damage, but their afflictions are great, plus you can always use weapons to finish them off. I just think that wizzard has the easiest time disabling hordes of enemies at once, despite their last tier of spells.

 

Does anyone care to speculate, beyond the quoted post, why Wizards are most popular in the poll? I am asking because I do not get it and perhaps I play them wrong. 

 

Well I answered Wizard. Some reasons I have for this is: Compared to the other caster classes: you have 2 extra spell for every power level for free thanks to Grimoires. The other caster classes only get 1. I can't remember a single power level from wizard tree that was absolutely subpar. I think both priest and druids have such power levels, but I'm not too bothered to check up on that. Generally a very good spread of AoE-nukes, singletarget-nukes and best CC in the game (both AoE and single target).

 

Then there is the equipment: Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry is stupid.

 

Wizards are very versatile in the roles they can fill and specialise in -> good multiclass potential.

 

Extremely good PL IX-X abilities, meaning single class isn't out of the consideration.

 

And while in some ways there was a bit of an effort in Deadfire to make the Caster/non-Caster class discrepancy smaller, 2x casts/spell level means you can be constantly casting, if you have something worthwhile to cast. And a Wizards do. You can pick a situational or generic-use spells. and use what you need. That's my take on it at least.

 

 

Thanks. My question was not asking about multi-classing and Priest/Druid comparison. 

 

What do you cast around level 10? I can cast:

 

I. 2 Chill Fogs with PEN 6.3 and ACC 58

II. 2 buffs?

III. 2 Fireballs with PEN 7 and 37-48 damage ACC 58 or buffs

IV. CC, buff and debuff

V. Malignant Cloud with 11.5 sec duration ACC 58, 15 - 23 Raw per 3 sec or Terror debuff  or Blast of Frost with 9.5 PEN 62-99 damage ACC 58

VI. finally, some picks with decent damage but ACC 58 so if it misses too bad

 

If I take sword and buff myself I can do more damage than casting spells.

 

PL IX-X .. I don't care about that, that's when I end the game. What do I cast before getting there?

Edited July 1, 2018 by knownastherat

[Jelei]

 

Thanks. My question was not asking about multi-classing and Priest/Druid comparison. 

 

What do you cast around level 10? I can cast:

 

I. 2 Chill Fogs with PEN 6.3 and ACC 58

II. 2 buffs?

III. 2 Fireballs with PEN 7 and 37-48 ACC 58 damage or buffs

IV. CC, buff and defuff

V. Maligant Clouds with 11.5 sec duration ACC 58, 15 - 23 Raw per 3 sec or Terror debuff  or Blast of Frost with 9.5 PEN 62-99 damage ACC 58

VI. finally some picks with decent damage but ACC 58 so if it misses too bad

 

If I take sword and buff myself I can do more damage than casting spells.

 

PL IX-X .. I don't care about that, that's when I end the game. What do I cast before getting there?

 

Well, yes, but multiclassing potential is also what makes a class strong, in my opinion. And druid/priest comparison is mostly because they are the closest to Wizards, and I would say, simply because of how much they can do, they pretty much are currently above all others. (Or would be if they had enough non-situational stuff to use).

 

I've mostly played a multiclass wizard, but let's see.

 

PL I: Fleet feet (+5 dex always good), Chill Fog, Spirit shield excellent spells (+ concentration, use if casting a big spell in-combat).

PL II: Miasma is one of the strongest debuffs as far as I know, Veil is a amazing panic button (+ concentration, can be used pre-emptively for big casts). Lance is a good nuke.

PL III: Dampener is insanely good, fireball is good, minor blights is amazing, expose vulnerabilities is excellent. Bounding missiles is decent. For spellblades and Battlemages Ryngrim's Visage is so good it's not even funny. With patch 1.2.0 DAOM is back! This is a stupid powerlevel because everything is so good.

PL IV: Reflection is situational, but nice. Ironskin is good but lacks +concentration. This powerlevel has the +elemental passives. Pick up at least one. Summons are always good.

PL V. Enervating terror is to die for if you like to stay in the back row. Call to Slumber is great, Helpless beast is situational but good, Malignant Cloud is very good.

PL VI: Gaze is still insanely good. Freezing pillar, Chain Lightning and Piercing Burst are all damn good.

and so on and so on.

 

What to do ? CC the damn out of your enemies, reduce their deflection and armor to pieces. Make sure you aren't interrupted and and while your enemies are helplessly lying in the ground or screaming around terrified or puking their guts out as they are sickened blast them to pieces with everything you've got.

[knownastherat]

Thanks again. So buffs and debuffs mostly because ACC 58 is not going to hit much on PotD at least. Well, how does it make Wizard strongest is beyond me. Strongest buffer for multi-class, I can see that. 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by knownastherat

[Boeroer]

Chillfog alone can turn hefty encounters into easy ones. Just one example. It's not about the damage, it's about applying Blind (a tier-3-affliction) at lvl 1.

 

Pull of Eora is one of the best CC spells in the game in my opinion.

 

Ninagauth's Shadowflame... There are some spells in the Wizard's portfolio that make a huge difference in a fight.

 

Actually I almost use no damage-only spells with my wizards in the early to mid game in Deadfire.

 

And of course good buffs and debuffs can make a class the strongest. Priest wasn't the strongest class in PoE because he was good at dealing damage (which he also was) but because of his insanely powerful buffs.

 

While I don't consider Wizard to be strongest atm - for me personally - I can understand why people think so. Also the last two spell tiers can lead you to that conclusion.

[thelee]

I haven't read though this thread but it feels like anyone who votes cipher as weakest has never tried charming/dominating things on 1.1 potd. Barring an utter and complete nerf or giving intellect resistance to every enemy in the game, it can't possibly be the worst.

Edited July 1, 2018 by thelee

[Boeroer]

True. Especially when compared with the passives that give you additional duration and +10 ACC for will based spells - and the passive that gives you back +5 focus per crit roll on spells. I find them to be powerful enough - at least when playing a solo cipher. Multiclass doesn't help much with the mind control, so...

Edited July 1, 2018 by Boeroer

[Ciphys]

 

 

However, I will pick ranger just because the nerf of Evasive Fire annoys me and Barbarian as strongest because of some broken combos of items+abilities...

 

 

Don't know if I just missed a thread or a youtube video about it or something, but could you shed some clarity of what combos exactly?

[the_dog_days]

Still can't figure out why Ranger is voted worst class but Rogue: A Worse Ranger is by popular opinion considered the third best.

[knownastherat]

Chillfog alone can turn hefty encounters into easy ones. Just one example. It's not about the damage, it's about applying Blind (a tier-3-affliction) at lvl 1.

 

Pull of Eora is one of the best CC spells in the game in my opinion.

 

Ninagauth's Shadowflame... There are some spells in the Wizard's portfolio that make a huge difference in a fight.

 

Actually I almost use no damage-only spells with my wizards in the early to mid game in Deadfire.

 

And of course good buffs and debuffs can make a class the strongest. Priest wasn't the strongest class in PoE because he was good at dealing damage (which he also was) but because of his insanely powerful buffs.

 

While I don't consider Wizard to be strongest atm - for me personally - I can understand why people think so. Also the last two spell tiers can lead you to that conclusion.

 

Of course, you don't use damage spells early to mid game because they do not do damage. 

[Boeroer]

Not exactly, but partially true.

 

I don't use them a lot because the gain from one debuffing spell in an encounter is a lot higher than the gain from one damaging spell. Mainly because spell uses are so limited then. Later - with a lot more spell uses the situation can shift and I may find myself using high level debuffs but low level damaging spells.

 

You also don't seem to use empower. Because if there's a class that makes the most out of empower it's the wizard.

 

As for Barb's broken combos: try Wahaī Pōraga + Heart of Fury, Lord Darryn's Voulge + that electro-helmet with Berserker's Frenzy. Also try Body Blows + Brute Force. Try Beckoner/Berserker who kills his own puny minions in order to trigger Blood Thirst. Or just use Berserker-HoF on you party's Beckoner-summons just to increase the number of hits that get generated - adding a ton of carnage-damage even if there's only one single enemy.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Boeroer

[thelee]

Still can't figure out why Ranger is voted worst class but Rogue: A Worse Ranger is by popular opinion considered the third best.

 

Really? I don't know man, sneak attack (and eventually deathblows) gets you pretty far along the power curve imo. Also streetfighter = most fun I've had with a rogue-type in quite a while.

[knownastherat]

Not exactly, but partially true.

 

I don't use them a lot because the gain from one debuffing spell in an encounter is a lot higher than the gain from one damaging spell. Mainly because spell uses are so limited then. Later - with a lot more spell uses the situation can shift and I may find myself using high level debuffs but low level damaging spells.

 

You also don't seem to use empower. Because if there's a class that makes the most out of empower it's the wizard.

 

As for Barb's broken combos: try Wahaī Pōraga + Heart of Fury, Lord Darryn's Voulge + that electro-helmet with Berserker's Frenzy. Also try Body Blows + Brute Force. Try Beckoner/Berserker who kills his own puny minions in order to trigger Blood Thirst. Or just use Berserker-HoF on you party's Beckoner-summons just to increase the number of hits that get generated - adding a ton of carnage-bashs even if there's only one single enemy.

 

I don't care for broken combos, I don't care for Empowering spells and I don't care for Wizard buffing martial multi-class. I understand and agree with what you say but I don't understand how Wizard is the strongest. It has terrible passives, it has terrible subclasses, it has PEN and ACC, unlike weapons users who can grab a weapon with PEN and ACC, level dependent. 

 

Because it can Empower Meteor Shower? Well, then I guess its the strongest. Great, design. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by knownastherat

[araj123]

Thanks again. So buffs and debuffs mostly because ACC 58 is not going to hit much on PotD at least. Well, how does it make Wizard strongest is beyond me. Strongest buffer for multi-class, I can see that. 

 

 

This fight would have looked very different if you still had an empower and some better gear (which is very easy to get)

 

Ningauths alone would have given you 3 shadowflames with empower and another pillar which would have been more than enough to win that fight

 

Wizard is very strong throughout and becomes a powerhouse in the lategame

[the_dog_days]

 

Still can't figure out why Ranger is voted worst class but Rogue: A Worse Ranger is by popular opinion considered the third best.

 

Really? I don't know man, sneak attack (and eventually deathblows) gets you pretty far along the power curve imo. Also streetfighter = most fun I've had with a rogue-type in quite a while.

 

 

Rogues are weak because they can't tank. They lack the versatility of all the other classes because they're stuck in a single glass cannon role. Even wizards can be built to tank, and yes, rangers with their pets can, too.

[thelee]

 

Not exactly, but partially true.

 

I don't use them a lot because the gain from one debuffing spell in an encounter is a lot higher than the gain from one damaging spell. Mainly because spell uses are so limited then. Later - with a lot more spell uses the situation can shift and I may find myself using high level debuffs but low level damaging spells.

 

You also don't seem to use empower. Because if there's a class that makes the most out of empower it's the wizard.

 

As for Barb's broken combos: try Wahaī Pōraga + Heart of Fury, Lord Darryn's Voulge + that electro-helmet with Berserker's Frenzy. Also try Body Blows + Brute Force. Try Beckoner/Berserker who kills his own puny minions in order to trigger Blood Thirst. Or just use Berserker-HoF on you party's Beckoner-summons just to increase the number of hits that get generated - adding a ton of carnage-bashs even if there's only one single enemy.

 

I don't care for broken combos, I don't care for Empowering spells and I don't care for Wizard buffing martial multi-class. I understand and agree with what you say but I don't understand how Wizard is the strongest. It has terrible passives, it has terrible subclasses, it has PEN and ACC, unlike weapons users who can grab a weapon with PEN and ACC, dependent. 

 

Because it can Empower Meteor Shower? Well, then I guess its the strongest. Great, design. 

 

 

"i don't care for XXX" where XXX is the reason why a class can be so powerful... O_o

 

if you're not empowering spells you're missing out on quite a bit.

[thelee]

 

 

Still can't figure out why Ranger is voted worst class but Rogue: A Worse Ranger is by popular opinion considered the third best.

 

Really? I don't know man, sneak attack (and eventually deathblows) gets you pretty far along the power curve imo. Also streetfighter = most fun I've had with a rogue-type in quite a while.

 

 

Rogues are weak because they can't tank. They lack the versatility of all the other classes because they're stuck in a single glass cannon role. Even wizards can be built to tank, and yes, rangers with their pets can, too.

 

 

But um I don't need versatility if I've already DPS-ed everything down.

 

And versatility comes in many forms. I find the rogue to have some of the more interesting possibilities for multi-classing compared to some other classes.

Edited July 1, 2018 by thelee

[knownastherat]

I am missing to click a button. Instead of thinking of strategy how to solve an encounter with proper spell picks, order, and timing. 

[the_dog_days]

Yeah, but my point was rogue is only useful for multiclassing.

[araj123]

I am missing to click a button. Instead of thinking of strategy how to solve an encounter with proper spell picks, order, and timing. 

 

The same could be said about every single ability in the game