[spoiler][rant] Communing with the gods after the Ashen Maw.

[nstgc]

As the end is drawing closer, the number of misgivings I have increases rapidly.

 

The image below really pisses me off.

 

 

My watcher is pretty smart. Right now she has an INT of 21. I'm pretty sure she would have asked the important question: "What happened BEFORE the Engwithen created the wheel?"

 

Seriously. This is absolutely ridiculous. Life can't just create something that is required for their to have already been life unless that thing already existed!

 

Throughout the entire conversation they completely ignore the fact that life went on without the Engwithen's wheel. There isn't even the option to bring it up.

Edited June 20, 2018 by nstgc

[wRAR]

If you are not satisfied with some list of allowed options in a CRPG go play a TRPG.

[nstgc]

If you are not satisfied with some list of allowed options in a CRPG go play a TRPG.

First, that is a horrible response since a TRPG would have an even shorter list.

 

My point isn't the short list. My problem is that the fact that the existence of life without the wheel is completely ignored. CRPGs are about story, and the story is falling VERY short this point in my opinion.

[Tick]

I mean, the real point of those conversations was to point where you stand on the Gods and whether the kith should stand on their own or not, but I agree that that was a little weird. There are conversations somewhere in the game that kind of talk about it, but not a lot.

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel like the main story has cut content or was way rewritten. Because another weird thing is how much they emphasize what you say /think matters, but there's not actually a lot you can do, say, or even talk about in the last encounter.

 

I really *liked * the main story, but it needs a bit of a revamp

[AndreaColombo]

No option to say you want everything destroyed. No love for Rymrgand followers.

[wRAR]

 

My point isn't the short list. My problem is that the fact that the existence of life without the wheel is completely ignored. CRPGs are about story, and the story is falling VERY short this point in my opinion.

 

<obligatory link to Josh's post>

[house2fly]

My character had 19 Int which allowed me to conclude that whatever natural process governs the movement of souls after death had been affected by the Engwithan Wheel to an extent that would prevent it from simply snapping back into place after the Wheel's destruction.

 

Think of it as diverting the natural course of a river. If you put a dam in the new channel you made, that doesn't mean the water will go back to its natural flow. It'll just try to keep flowing the new way and flood over the sides.

[Tick]

Actually, as hinted by wRAR, there's literally cut content that was supposed to explain this. Sawyer cut it out because he didn't realize how much an impact the cut would have and he thought the conversation would be smoother.

 

He thinks the Eothas conversations were too long. D: Please give more Eothas.

[Tarlonniel]

My Watcher's head aches from beating it against the brick wall of the gods. Please, no more, for the love of kith...

[house2fly]

I'm glad Sawyer cut it, it's better to err on the side of underexplaining than overexplaining. It's still clear enough what's going on, it may just take a bit of discussing with other people to really get it.

[nstgc]

I'm glad Sawyer cut it, it's better to err on the side of underexplaining than overexplaining. It's still clear enough what's going on, it may just take a bit of discussing with other people to really get it.

It could have been put into a dialog branch. As I suggested in my opening post.

[nstgc]

My character had 19 Int which allowed me to conclude that whatever natural process governs the movement of souls after death had been affected by the Engwithan Wheel to an extent that would prevent it from simply snapping back into place after the Wheel's destruction.

 

Think of it as diverting the natural course of a river. If you put a dam in the new channel you made, that doesn't mean the water will go back to its natural flow. It'll just try to keep flowing the new way and flood over the sides.

Yes, this is what I concluded as well, however this isn't even hinted at.

[uuuhhii]

that was not the best time for history research

and gods definetly not giving much history lesson

what is the point of asking？

not giving answer are far from not making sense

[nstgc]

that was not the best time for history research

and gods definetly not giving much history lesson

what is the point of asking？

not giving answer are far from not making sense

The problem is that this fact is completely ignored. Had the gods brushed it off or acted enigmatic, that's one thing, but for EVERY to act like there was never a time before the Engwithen's Wheel is ridiculous.

[AeonsLegend]

It's one of those dialogues where ALL options are the same. Incredibly unimaginative. There's countless of dialogues like that. They really want you to feel like it matters diddly squat what you do.

[uuuhhii]

 

that was not the best time for history research

and gods definetly not giving much history lesson

what is the point of asking？

not giving answer are far from not making sense

The problem is that this fact is completely ignored. Had the gods brushed it off or acted enigmatic, that's one thing, but for EVERY to act like there was never a time before the Engwithen's Wheel is ridiculous.

 

it is a question only lead to more question

why build the new wheel

is the old one broke

what is the difference other than make adra pillar outside of deadfire stop glowing

if the old one broken then how

engwithan experiments？

the third meeting already have too much exposition

shorter one that doesn't answer all the players question are the right direction

those meeting are better when player are basicly audience

[nstgc]

 

 

that was not the best time for history research

and gods definetly not giving much history lesson

what is the point of asking？

not giving answer are far from not making sense

The problem is that this fact is completely ignored. Had the gods brushed it off or acted enigmatic, that's one thing, but for EVERY to act like there was never a time before the Engwithen's Wheel is ridiculous.

 

it is a question only lead to more question

why build the new wheel

is the old one broke

what is the difference other than make adra pillar outside of deadfire stop glowing

if the old one broken then how

engwithan experiments？

the third meeting already have too much exposition

shorter one that doesn't answer all the players question are the right direction

those meeting are better when player are basicly audience

 

There is a difference between "not answering all questions" and "gaping hole". This is a gaping hole.

 

And as I said, the problem is that its completely ignored. Had the watcher been able to say "well, life existed before the Engwithen's wheel" and then Woedica said "you speak of think you can't understand" I'd be happy. No further exposition.

[uuuhhii]

 

 

 

that was not the best time for history research

and gods definetly not giving much history lesson

what is the point of asking？

not giving answer are far from not making sense

The problem is that this fact is completely ignored. Had the gods brushed it off or acted enigmatic, that's one thing, but for EVERY to act like there was never a time before the Engwithen's Wheel is ridiculous.

 

it is a question only lead to more question

why build the new wheel

is the old one broke

what is the difference other than make adra pillar outside of deadfire stop glowing

if the old one broken then how

engwithan experiments？

the third meeting already have too much exposition

shorter one that doesn't answer all the players question are the right direction

those meeting are better when player are basicly audience

 

There is a difference between "not answering all questions" and "gaping hole". This is a gaping hole.

 

And as I said, the problem is that its completely ignored. Had the watcher been able to say "well, life existed before the Engwithen's wheel" and then Woedica said "you speak of think you can't understand" I'd be happy. No further exposition.

 

of course life exist before that

how is that a question

only the relative detail are not given

[wRAR]

 

 

that was not the best time for history research

and gods definetly not giving much history lesson

what is the point of asking？

not giving answer are far from not making sense

The problem is that this fact is completely ignored. Had the gods brushed it off or acted enigmatic, that's one thing, but for EVERY to act like there was never a time before the Engwithen's Wheel is ridiculous.

 

it is a question only lead to more question

why build the new wheel

is the old one broke

So the gods could eat the essence from it.

[Tick]

Is that the only point to the new wheel? It felt like it did something else too.

 

(totally fine if there's not, still makes sense)

[Ichthyic]

Is that the only point to the new wheel? It felt like it did something else too.

 

(totally fine if there's not, still makes sense)

yeah, it recycles souls into the world of the living.  that was the MAIN point of it actually.

 

In the world of PoE, nobody who dies will come back into existence with the wheel broken.

 

it's like living in a world with a real heaven and hell, but now nobody who dies can go to either; everyone just stays in limbo.

 

clearly, the "gods" looked at the creation of the wheel as a good trade.  they get to siphon of a tiny bit of essence, and in return, you get reborn into the world (even if you don't recall normally who you were before).

 

the question of where all those souls went before there was the wheel is perhaps the ONLY question worth asking in this circumstance.... and you never get to ask it.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Ichthyic

[Tick]

 

Is that the only point to the new wheel? It felt like it did something else too.

 

(totally fine if there's not, still makes sense)

yeah, it recycles souls into the world of the living. that was the MAIN point of it actually.

 

In the world of PoE, nobody who dies will come back into existence with the wheel broken.

 

it's like living in a world with a real heaven and hell, but now nobody who dies can go to either; everyone just stays in limbo.

 

clearly, the "gods" looked at the creation of the wheel as a good trade. they get to siphon of a tiny bit of essence, and in return, you get reborn into the world (even if you don't recall normally who you were before).

 

the question of where all those souls went before there was the wheel is perhaps the ONLY question worth asking in this circumstance.... and you never get to ask it.

 

There was a wheel before and I thought that reincarnated peeps. I'm gonna have to read the Sawyer post again.

[MaxQuest]

There was a wheel before and I thought that reincarnated peeps. I'm gonna have to read the Sawyer post again.

Both Iovara and Thaos do mention that there was a Wheel before Engwithans.

[nstgc]

of course life exist before that

 

 

how is that a question

only the relative detail are not given

 

 

Then why is everyone acting as if it never existed before?

 

Is that the only point to the new wheel? It felt like it did something else too.

 

(totally fine if there's not, still makes sense)

 

The reason you feel that way is because of how everyone is acting. But yeah, presumably its so the gods could make a meal of mortals.

 

yeah, it recycles souls into the world of the living.  that was the MAIN point of it actually.

In the world of PoE, nobody who dies will come back into existence with the wheel broken.

 

it's like living in a world with a real heaven and hell, but now nobody who dies can go to either; everyone just stays in limbo.

 

clearly, the "gods" looked at the creation of the wheel as a good trade.  they get to siphon of a tiny bit of essence, and in return, you get reborn into the world (even if you don't recall normally who you were before).

 

the question of where all those souls went before there was the wheel is perhaps the ONLY question worth asking in this circumstance.... and you never get to ask it.

 

 

 

 

 

This does not make sense. If this were the case, then there wouldn't have been anyone to make the wheel.

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

Someone has mentioned a post by Sawer. What post?

Edited June 21, 2018 by nstgc

[MaxQuest]

Then why is everyone acting as if it never existed before?

I suppose gods wanted to scare and confuse the Watcher.

 

Someone has mentioned a post by Sawer. What post?

It's this post.

Unfortunately Josh only writes that they cut the dialogues where Eothas describes how the stuff worked before. But doesn't write how... in the post itself.

Edited June 21, 2018 by MaxQuest