Beta patch 1.1 important changes

[Climhazzard]

^ You'll have to admit, however, that Devotions for the Faithful in its 1.1 incarnation isn't really worth the time it takes to cast it.

 

My first play through was without a Priest—and in the first game I never played without a Priest. The reason? It took too long to cast the buffs, so I didn't bother. Sure, Devotions for the Faithful was good; but 4.5s good? Not really. I never needed +20 Accuracy that badly.

 

Now it offers less benefit for the same overly slow casting time? The chances I'll bother with a Priest have just gone below zero.

 

 

I usually cast it from stealth.  Something like, party stealths in, unstealth tank, Xoti activates lightning strikes then casts devotions while the rest of the party starts casting any self buffs they need, devotions hits then party unstealths.  If I use it in battle I still consider it worth the time to cast as long as I can also hit a number of enemies with it, it's a nice debuff too after all.

[Mereinid]

I suppose this much-needed update will, of course, break the 5 or 6 mods I have in there. Also, given some of the things that are/have been changed upgraded and/or added. I should just make a new character...huh?

Edited June 4, 2018 by Mereinid

[Braven]

 

^ You'll have to admit, however, that Devotions for the Faithful in its 1.1 incarnation isn't really worth the time it takes to cast it.

 

My first play through was without a Priest—and in the first game I never played without a Priest. The reason? It took too long to cast the buffs, so I didn't bother. Sure, Devotions for the Faithful was good; but 4.5s good? Not really. I never needed +20 Accuracy that badly.

 

Now it offers less benefit for the same overly slow casting time? The chances I'll bother with a Priest have just gone below zero.

 

 

I usually cast it from stealth.  Something like, party stealths in, unstealth tank, Xoti activates lightning strikes then casts devotions while the rest of the party starts casting any self buffs they need, devotions hits then party unstealths.  If I use it in battle I still consider it worth the time to cast as long as I can also hit a number of enemies with it, it's a nice debuff too after all.

 

 

Interesting.  The fact it has an "attack" component means you can start casting it before combat starts from stealth and basically remove the recovery time too.  Sadly, you can't do this with spells that only buff.  This is a trick I think a lot of people miss.  You get a "free" cast if you just do so from stealth and there is a (not well advertised) massive reduction to recovery time if you do so.  With multiple casters, you can queue them all up at the same time for a big alpha strike.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Braven

[Myrtillo]

I don't really understand how seasoned players complain so much about the fighter nerfs.

I mean, the class with arguably the best survivability was able to do massive damage, in aoe, without friendly fire, procing weapon on hit effects, with a low level cheap ability. It didn't make any sense.

I am fairly certain that the fighter can still do great damage. Not brokenly absurd amounts of damage, especially compared to its defensive potential.

 

The patch just brings charge, unbending and cleaving stance on par with other abilities and adequate compared to the challenge offered by the game. Isn't that what balance is supposed to be ?

 

There has to be some strong form of "It was better before" bias here. I am convinced that if fighter had been released in that state, no-one would have found it too weak.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Myrtillo

[Climhazzard]

 

 

^ You'll have to admit, however, that Devotions for the Faithful in its 1.1 incarnation isn't really worth the time it takes to cast it.

 

My first play through was without a Priest—and in the first game I never played without a Priest. The reason? It took too long to cast the buffs, so I didn't bother. Sure, Devotions for the Faithful was good; but 4.5s good? Not really. I never needed +20 Accuracy that badly.

 

Now it offers less benefit for the same overly slow casting time? The chances I'll bother with a Priest have just gone below zero.

 

 

I usually cast it from stealth.  Something like, party stealths in, unstealth tank, Xoti activates lightning strikes then casts devotions while the rest of the party starts casting any self buffs they need, devotions hits then party unstealths.  If I use it in battle I still consider it worth the time to cast as long as I can also hit a number of enemies with it, it's a nice debuff too after all.

 

 

Interesting.  The fact it has an "attack" component means you can start casting it before combat starts from stealth and basically remove the recovery time too.  Sadly, you can't do this with spells that only buff.  This is a trick I think a lot of people miss.  You get a "free" cast if you just do so from stealth and there is a (not well advertised) massive reduction to recovery time if you do so.  With multiple casters, you can queue them all up at the same time for a big alpha strike.

 

 

 

Actually you can't, that's why I unstealth the tank first, to start combat.  But everyone else is free to buff while stealthed after as long as the tank doesn't die right off the bat.

 

For battles where starting out in stealth isn't an option it's a bit dicier.  I would just toss a lay on hands on Xoti then have her run into the front line and start casting either Devotions or Consecrated ground.  Unfortunately the chances of getting interrupted are a lot higher even with combat focus, especially if you want to cast multiple buffs.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Climhazzard

[knownastherat]

 

Gorecci Street quest (giver) indicates for a peaceful solution .. to help keep order .. states the quest (giver). If Ilari gets killed Savia notes this again. Overtuned or not .. just dont fight them and move on ffs. This is getting ridiculous. 

 

No this isn't ridiculous - it's feedback for a beta patch.

 

Stealth should not be a requirement for an encounter that is over tuned. As an option it's fine.

 

I've done it before by cheesing the pathing - doesn't mean that it's properly tuned.

 

 

Stealth is not a requirement. People posted here about beating the encounter.

 

Your feedback seems to be: It's too difficult for me and the reasons are: 1. its overtuned and 2. my Skald is too weak, which was proved as false claim in both cases. 

 

I do not really care about your cheesing. You claimed to play on Trial of Iron, and when failed (as expected because without prior knowledge it's very improbable) you admit to cheese the perma death with Trial of Alt+F4. Your arguments are invalid and their intellectual integrity questionable. 

 

While you can repeat your "overtuned" and call it feedback, it does not make it true. There is always story mode.

[Veolfen]

I don't really understand how seasoned players complain so much about the fighter nerfs.

I mean, the class with arguably the best survivability was able to do massive damage, in aoe, without friendly fire, procing weapon on hit effects, with a low level cheap ability. It didn't make any sense.

I am fairly certain that the fighter can still do great damage. Not brokenly absurd amounts of damage, especially compared to its defensive potential.

 

The patch just brings charge, unbending and cleaving stance on par with other abilities and adequate compared to the challenge offered by the game. Isn't that what balance is supposed to be ?

 

There has to be some strong form of "It was better before" bias here. I am convinced that if fighter had been released in that state, no-one would have found it too weak.

You don't get it at all, and you probably haven't read the complaints.

People aren't complaing about the nerfs of these skills that deserved a nerf, they are complaining about 2 things :

-The nerfs are too big, the stance becomes average at the very best and unbending become a high level skill that cost a lot of discipline and that heals less than a 1 zeal paladin heal.

-The other warrior skills are bad, and his best skills left are just "good" (Discipline strikes and Penetratig strike). Nothing excting and all his high level skills are bad.

 

Those OP tools were mainly a problem for multiclass with fighter in it, but as a singleclass it was lackluster as a dps, and now it will be worthless.

Like Balthazar pointed out => nerfing something because of multiclass can tend to impact the single class even more. So if the single class only had these skills for it, well it becomes easily worthless.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Veolfen

[merkmerk73]

 

 

Gorecci Street quest (giver) indicates for a peaceful solution .. to help keep order .. states the quest (giver). If Ilari gets killed Savia notes this again. Overtuned or not .. just dont fight them and move on ffs. This is getting ridiculous. 

 

No this isn't ridiculous - it's feedback for a beta patch.

 

Stealth should not be a requirement for an encounter that is over tuned. As an option it's fine.

 

I've done it before by cheesing the pathing - doesn't mean that it's properly tuned.

 

 

Stealth is not a requirement. People posted here about beating the encounter.

 

Your feedback seems to be: It's too difficult for me and the reasons are: 1. its overtuned and 2. my Skald is too weak, which was proved as false claim in both cases. 

 

I do not really care about your cheesing. You claimed to play on Trial of Iron, and when failed (as expected because without prior knowledge it's very improbable) you admit to cheese the perma death with Trial of Alt+F4. Your arguments are invalid and their intellectual integrity questionable. 

 

While you can repeat your "overtuned" and call it feedback, it does not make it true. There is always story mode.

 

 

No, stealth isn't a requirement if you cheese the fight - or you 'enter only from outside the city'. You don't seem to have a grasp on what proper tuning is. I'll give you a hint: just because you can manage to beat an encounter cheesing pathing or by 'leaving and exiting so you enter from the south side because going from within the city is suicide' doesn't mean it's properly tuned.

 

1.) Nobody has shown beating the fight with the 3 skull boars - let alone with a skald as PC - which seems to indicate a problem with scaling which I'll test later. They shouldn't be 3 skulls at level 4 as a critical path area- that demonstrates either poor tuning or a bug in the scaling.

2.) I alt F4'd only to test the 3 skull boar fight multiple times with a level 4 party.

 

I've beaten PoE1 on trial of iron on POTD as well as XCOM. I enjoy high difficulty and high stakes. This is a beta patch and it's to be expected that difficulty tuning won't be 100% spot on.

 

So you can **** right off with your passive aggressive bull****

[knownastherat]

Stars?

[Ganrich]

Stars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvq4LdngkD4

 

Boars do Pierce, and so do many of the combatants on Gorecci.  Vendor in the middle of Maje sells both Scale (medium with Pierce AR) and Brigandine (heavy with Pierce AR) each for $200 per, and Xoti's Armor has Pierce AR.  You can do it.  I believe in you. 

[Climhazzard]

 

Stars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvq4LdngkD4

 

Boars do Pierce, and so do many of the combatants on Gorecci.  Vendor in the middle of Maje sells both Scale (medium with Pierce AR) and Brigandine (heavy with Pierce AR) each for $200 per, and Xoti's Armor has Pierce AR.  You can do it.  I believe in you. 

 

 

 

Aren't scale and brigandine actually weak to Piercing?  I'm almost sure brigaindine is.  I generally see crushing as the least common, especially when fighting kith.  So my top choice for each tier is usually leather, mail, and plate.

[Ganrich]

 

 

Stars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvq4LdngkD4

 

Boars do Pierce, and so do many of the combatants on Gorecci.  Vendor in the middle of Maje sells both Scale (medium with Pierce AR) and Brigandine (heavy with Pierce AR) each for $200 per, and Xoti's Armor has Pierce AR.  You can do it.  I believe in you. 

 

 

 

Aren't scale and brigandine actually weak to Piercing?  I'm almost sure brigaindine is.  I generally see crushing as the least common, especially when fighting kith.  So my top choice for each tier is usually leather, mail, and plate.

 

 

Maybe you are right.  I am going to go look.  I swear they were ok for it.

 

EDIT:  Nope, I am an idiot.  Disregard.   You are correct.  They need another Heavy armor on that vendor to help with Pierce. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Ganrich

[Myrtillo]

 

I don't really understand how seasoned players complain so much about the fighter nerfs.

I mean, the class with arguably the best survivability was able to do massive damage, in aoe, without friendly fire, procing weapon on hit effects, with a low level cheap ability. It didn't make any sense.

I am fairly certain that the fighter can still do great damage. Not brokenly absurd amounts of damage, especially compared to its defensive potential.

 

The patch just brings charge, unbending and cleaving stance on par with other abilities and adequate compared to the challenge offered by the game. Isn't that what balance is supposed to be ?

 

There has to be some strong form of "It was better before" bias here. I am convinced that if fighter had been released in that state, no-one would have found it too weak.

You don't get it at all, and you probably haven't read the complaints.

People aren't complaing about the nerfs of these skills that deserved a nerf, they are complaining about 2 things :

-The nerfs are too big, the stance becomes average at the very best and unbending become a high level skill that cost a lot of discipline and that heals less than a 1 zeal paladin heal.

-The other warrior skills are bad, and his best skills left are just "good" (Discipline strikes and Penetratig strike). Nothing excting and all his high level skills are bad.

 

Those OP tools were mainly a problem for multiclass with fighter in it, but as a singleclass it was lackluster as a dps, and now it will be worthless.

Like Balthazar pointed out => nerfing something because of multiclass can tend to impact the single class even more. So if the single class only had these skills for it, well it becomes easily worthless.

 

 

I read all the posts in this thread and others related to 1.1 as well. 

There were complaints about the fact that charge would not attack all ennemies anymore and calling the move now useless. Same with cleave stance. I think it was not an objective vision.

Stances are a ressource-free passive bonus with no drawbacks, so it makes a lot of sense that they are average, on par with other passives. If you find you are point starved and can't take a stance, well maybe that's an issue that will not be affecting single class fighters.

 

About unbdending I admit that I can't tell yet if it has been nerfed too far or not. But it is still a heal that scales with the ennemy power. 33% of damage converted to healing seems still like a massive survivability option. 75% was absurd, and 50% would still probably be absurd.

 

Single class fighter has a lot of appeal, and is by no means "worthless". (and anyways none of the single class fighter only options have been nerfed so I don't see your point)

Inspired strike is a great candidate for empower with chopping wood given the numbers of effects and damage that would autocrit. Sundering blow might be extremely potent with the increased PotD armor, and the nerf on body attunement.

Take the hit would make a lot of sense on a pure tank, which is clearly one of the path an unbroken fighter can take.

And fighter has a lot of great passives justifying sinking more points in the class.

 

There is a lot of tactical potential that was unused because there was no need too. Lower their guard is a good example. The rest of fighter abilities are balanced, they were just eclipsed by the broken ones.

I do agree that players looking for big DPS numbers should not take fighter, but it is not a problem. Fighter can still provide average dps, great survivability, and a tactical presence, and there are other melee classes that fill that DPS role.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Myrtillo

[thelee]

^ You'll have to admit, however, that Devotions for the Faithful in its 1.1 incarnation isn't really worth the time it takes to cast it.

 

My first play through was without a Priest—and in the first game I never played without a Priest. The reason? It took too long to cast the buffs, so I didn't bother. Sure, Devotions for the Faithful was good; but 4.5s good? Not really. I never needed +20 Accuracy that badly.

 

Now it offers less benefit for the same overly slow casting time? The chances I'll bother with a Priest have just gone below zero.

 

At +-20, it was definitely 4.5s good, likely even 6.0s good. Sure, you never needed +20 Accuracy that badly, but frankly I didn't need anything after character level 13 that badly because that's what I ended my first run at without much challenge. With a successive run with more thorough exploration, I still don't need most of my abilities because PotD is way too easy. (From the sounds of it, hopefully 1.1 fixes this problem.) This is just to say that "I never needed" isn't a good enough way to evaluate the power level of a spell because right now the high-end of the game is like... completely missing.

 

At +-10, I believe 4.5s is still fair, but definitely not at 6.0s. Triumph of the Crusaders is at the same PL at 3.0s, mostly provides Strong; its healing effect is only sometimes relevant (a harder PotD may make the healing effect stronger); yet Triumph is still a good spell at PL4.  Devotions provides almost a Strong inspiration, and also almost a Staggered affliction, and a +-10 accuracy bonus/malus, and the debuffs have decent duration (not all spells with debuffs do). In many situations, just having the might bonus/malus is comparable to Triumph, and then you add on +-10 accuracy which is still very good, if not necessarily as bonkers as +-20 accuracy was. That in my mind earns it a 4.5s over Triumph's 3.0s.

 

Basically, I mentioned a while ago in another thread that as someone who virtually always either rolls a priest or includes a priest in his/her party, in PoE1 I could divide the game into two parts: before Devotions for the Faithful and after Devotions of the Faithful. In small-party PotD runs (less than 6 full members), a challenging run could become trivial once I could cast Devotions for the Faithful. Original PoE Devotions of +-20 was amazing in an environment where shields got +4 deflection per enchantment level, where Crowns for the Faithful gave you a whopping +25 resolve (which is +25 deflection, stacking with other deflection bonuses because it's a resolve boost), blind cost you -25 accuracy and -20 deflection, etc; the fact that you still had +-20 in the world of Deadfire where all accuracy/deflection modifications are much harder to come by (aside from metagaming deflection stacking) is honestly astonishing.

 

If I was being greedy, I'd say it should have been +-15, but likely that number would have been influenced by the fact that I would still love to have a priest with a single-handedly battle-swinging spell, so a more neutral observer (say, the designers at obsidian) would probably find +-10 to be a fairer number.

Edited June 5, 2018 by thelee

[Veolfen]

The thing is, single class fighter doesn't have enough point either to handle the cost of the 4 discipline cost of those high level skills. 

3 power strike/inspired stike and you're out of discipline, and it's not like you OS people with it, you do at best 50% more damages than a normal attack. So when you have to deal with a lot of ennemies, it's not viable. Same problem for the other HL fighter skills.

Yeah at least sundering blow will do the job for the increase in armor the ennemies got.

Also i don't complain about the stance, i was more into the duellist stance to stack the max of single target potential with the accuracy and deflection boost. 

 

Let's list the fighter skills :

Level 1 :
Discipline barrage = Good
Know Down = Good

Level 2
Stance = Decent (very good for tank stance)
Into the fray =Bad/Average at best (range too short to make it fill its purpose)

Level 3
Dsiciplined strikes = Very good

Tactical barrage = Okay (outclassed too much by the previous upgrade)
Mule kick = Good

Penetrating strike = Good

Level 4
Vigorous defense = Good
Lower their guard = Bad (range still as short, the debuff last for a too short duration)
Out of fire = Bad (same range problem, the one you will want to save will be either too far, and/or you'll be too close to a lot of ennemies, so not a good new position for the ally)
Charge = Decent (was very good before nerf)

Level 5
Unbending = Bad (Was very good before nerf, now cost too much for poor healing)
Guardian stance buff = Good

Mob stance = Good (the cleave stance goes up from decent to good with this)
Conqueror stance = Decent (tooltip bugged?)

 

Level 6
Refreshing Defenser = Broken (the refresh doesn't work)
Clear out = Decent

 

Level 7
Unbending shield = Bad

Unbending trunk = Bad/Average (Was OP before nerf, now cost too much for the healing done))
Power strike = Bad (Expecting a double damages hit, it actually does like 50-60% more damages than a normal attack at best, for a huge cost of 4 discipline which is way too much)

Level 8

Inspired discipline = Average at best (Not worth it compared to Discipline strike, it gives a boost to all stats, which means 15% more attack speed, 5 more accuracy and 15% more damages for a dps, which is a good buff, but not enough for the price it cost)

Clear the path = Okay
Clean sweep = Okay 

 

Level 9

Inspired strike = Bad/Average (Same problem than powerstrike, but you get a small buff with the cost too now, but it's not very good nor exciting for your high level dps skill)
Take the hit = Bad (Its use will be when there's a lot of mobs and you can't engage them all, the problem is you're taking 50% of the allies are taking as RAW damages, making the tank collapse quite fast, something you don't want to happen when there's a lot of mobs left to deal with)
Sundering blow = Average (The armor reduction is nice, might be more worth it than before the patch, but the cost is still too high anyway, you still get outdamaged by skills that cost 1 or 2 ressources on other classes)


Also special mention at level 7 and 9 => Unbreakable/Unrelenting are good passives for a dps fighter that could die in the melee if he takes a bad focus, but in the end, a good positionning and avoiding to die is always better.

 

 

You can see he doesn't really have anything exciting, and starting at level 4 to the higher ranks, his abilities are mainly bad or decent at best, and are almost all bad at 7 and 9.

A dps fighter at this state, is a tanky dps, but in the end, berserker can be tanky dps who will out dps you in single and multiple targets fights, rogues will out tank with their riposte builds and out dps you, paladins outtank and outdps you with a hand in the pants because of his passives, natural tankiness + flame of devotion and also won't get controlled/mind controled at the first control spell he takes, monk outdps you by clicking on 2 buttons etc...

Edited June 4, 2018 by Veolfen

[Camonge]

1.) Nobody has shown beating the fight with the 3 skull boars - let alone with a skald as PC - which seems to indicate a problem with scaling which I'll test later. They shouldn't be 3 skulls at level 4 as a critical path area- that demonstrates either poor tuning or a bug in the scaling.

 

 

 

Yup, we do not know if it's working as intended (JSawyer said level scaling on critical path might work differently). Fact is: enemies in engwithian ruins are scaling twice from level 3 to 4. Worth reporting in the bugs subforum.

[merkmerk73]

Update - lvl3 potd, no scaling, boars are 2 skulls. 

 

edit: nearest cave is full of 2 skull skeletons (sorcerer, archer, warrior) - seems pretty risky to take on. can't seem to stealth around the boars, so it looks like cheesing/stealthing the grocery street to hit lvl 4 is mandatory

 

2nd edit: grocery street absolutely aggros you immediately if you don't enter from outside the town - but you have time to mash stealth before they go hostile. if you approach from outside, you can easily stealth to the gang boss and resolve thru dialogue - still not very well tuned if you're stuck between this and 2 skull boars/skeletons at level 3

 

3rd edit: boars are 1 skull without scaling on - so it looks like the issue is scaling. Not sure if going from 3 to 4 should turn boars into 3 skulls.

 

First try - the mobs that come seems a little random. I've had 2 boars + 2 young boars before, and 2 boars + 2 wyrms this time.

FYI - the boars do slash/pierce apparently - so trying to go with pierce armor won't help vs them.

 

edit: died to drake fight with 4 panthers 1 drake and a wyrm - boar didn't even join the fight. pretty sure this is the gated fight - you can't progress the game without doing this and you can't level up any further. i think it's doable but not reliably so people trying to do trial of iron should be amusing.

Edited June 5, 2018 by merkmerk73

[Myrtillo]

The thing is, single class fighter doesn't have enough point either to handle the cost of the 4 discipline cost of those high level skills. 

3 power strike/inspired stike and you're out of discipline, and it's not like you OS people with it, you do at best 50% more damages than a normal attack. So when you have to deal with a lot of ennemies, it's not viable. Same problem for the other HL fighter skills.

 

Yeah at least sundering blow will do the job for the increase in armor the ennemies got.

Also i don't complain about the stance, i was more into the duellist stance to stack the max of single target potential with the accuracy and deflection boost. 

 

Let's list the fighter skills :

 

Level 1 :

Discipline barrage = Good

Know Down = Good

 

Level 2

Stance = Decent (very good for tank stance)

Into the fray =Bad/Average at best (range too short to make it fill its purpose)

 

Level 3

Dsiciplined strikes = Very good

Tactical barrage = Okay (outclassed too much by the previous upgrade)

Mule kick = Good

Penetrating strike = Good

 

Level 4

Vigorous defense = Good

Lower their guard = Bad (range still as short, the debuff last for a too short duration)

Out of fire = Bad (same range problem, the one you will want to save will be either too far, and/or you'll be too close to a lot of ennemies, so not a good new position for the ally)

Charge = Decent (was very good before nerf)

 

Level 5

Unbending = Bad (Was very good before nerf, now cost too much for poor healing)

Guardian stance buff = Good

Mob stance = Good (the cleave stance goes up from decent to good with this)

Conqueror stance = Decent (tooltip bugged?)

 

Level 6

Refreshing Defenser = Broken (the refresh doesn't work)

Clear out = Decent

 

Level 7

Unbending shield = Bad

Unbending trunk = Bad/Average (Was OP before nerf, now cost too much for the healing done))

Power strike = Bad (Expecting a double damages hit, it actually does like 50-60% more damages than a normal attack at best, for a huge cost of 4 discipline which is way too much)

 

Level 8

Inspired discipline = Average at best (Not worth it compared to Discipline strike, it gives a boost to all stats, which means 15% more attack speed, 5 more accuracy and 15% more damages for a dps, which is a good buff, but not enough for the price it cost)

Clear the path = Okay

Clean sweep = Okay 

 

Level 9

Inspired strike = Bad/Average (Same problem than powerstrike, but you get a small buff with the cost too now, but it's not very good nor exciting for your high level dps skill)

Take the hit = Bad (Its use will be when there's a lot of mobs and you can't engage them all, the problem is you're taking 50% of the allies are taking as RAW damages, making the tank collapse quite fast, something you don't want to happen when there's a lot of mobs left to deal with)

Sundering blow = Average (The armor reduction is nice, might be more worth it than before the patch, but the cost is still too high anyway, you still get outdamaged by skills that cost 1 or 2 ressources on other classes)

 

 

Also special mention at level 7 and 9 => Unbreakable/Unrelenting are good passives for a dps fighter that could die in the melee if he takes a bad focus, but in the end, a good positionning and avoiding to die is always better.

 

 

You can see he doesn't really have anything exciting, and starting at level 4 to the higher ranks, his abilities are mainly bad or decent at best, and are almost all bad at 7 and 9.

 

A dps fighter at this state, is a tanky dps, but in the end, berserker can be tanky dps who will out dps you in single and multiple targets fights, rogues will out tank with their riposte builds and out dps you, paladins outtank and outdps you with a hand in the pants because of his passives, natural tankiness + flame of devotion and also won't get controlled/mind controled at the first control spell he takes, monk outdps you by clicking on 2 buttons etc...

 

I notice in your list that you consider the vast majority of skills to be "good" or "decent". Good and decent are where you want to be balance wise. Ok is acceptable if there is a situational niche. Bad is not acceptable.

 

However, on the ones you listed as bad:

 

- Take the hit: possible, I never really tested it, not my playstyle. But on paper it seems okay: If you stack (post-patch)unbending+constant recovery, and maybe a con ispiration, raw damage is probably not so much of an issue, and it will tremendously boost the survivability of the party as a whole. And if it gets too intense, you'll proc unbreakable. Still infinitely better than having your mages and other dps chars dead.

 

- Unbending and upgrades: I still think it has uses as a panic button to help you survive long enough for other heals to kick in or ennemies to die (as opposed to the free invincibility tool it used to be), but I might be wrong.

 

--------------

 

EDIT: I wrongly believed that the -10 armor was persisting for the duration, but only dazed does. -10 armor disappears after the first attack, making Lower their guard much less potent.

 

I think Lower their Guard is very underrated. With slightly above average intellect (which fighter will want anyways) and tactical barrage on, duration goes easily above 10 sec (it is also boosted by PL).

So for a skill that costs 2 discipline, has a 0.5s action time and 0s recovery, you give one ennemy a -10 armor for around 10 sec (not even factoring the 10 sec daze that is meh, and the low-ish crush damage). That's enough time for each party member (including the fighter since there is no recovery) to do 2-3 attacks on that ennemy that will most likely overpen even if they would normally be "no pen".

 

I find it really potent. It might be even more potent with 1.1 armor increase.

 

 

 

--------------

 

Inspired strike: It might seem expensive if you see it as a spammable ability, but if you use it once or twice per battle to think the ranks and give you the inspirations, I think all you gain from it justifies the cost.

- On primary target: +100% damage, +4 pen, inflicts stun. This is worth 2 discipline

As a comparison point penetrating strike that you judged good, for 1 discipline does only +25%dmg (instead of +100%), +4pen (same), no status effect (instead of stun). Sure, it is a full attack, but that is only relevant if your fighter is dual wielding.). Also, you seem to mention that it only does +50%-60%. In my game it seems to do the correct +100% damage.

- On self: Tier 2 int and Tier 3 Dex inspirations for a good duration. Worth 1 discipline

- In aoe: causes good raw damage and stagger. Worth 1 (maybe 2) discipline. The tooltip wrongly gives the impression that the raw damage is weak. It scales with power level, and this is not shown, and it is affected by the +100% damage of inspired strike. Before any crit or might multiplier you can easily reach around 40-50 raw damage in aoe.

 

Now there are two advantages for all those effects to be combined in one ability: First one is obviously time optimisation, You basically do 3 actions in one.

Second one is the potential to empower. Inspired strike is a great candidate for empower points.

- More damage and accuracy (obviously)

- Afflictions last longer

- Inspirations last longer

- Aoe raw damage becomes very significant (around 60-70 per ennemy before crit or might multiplier).

 

-------------------

 

So I stand by my point.

1.1 has nerfed what needed to be nerfed for the fighter, without overshooting it (with maybe a question on Unbending).

And single class fighter can be both fun to play and efficient.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Myrtillo

[dunehunter]

The thing is, single class fighter doesn't have enough point either to handle the cost of the 4 discipline cost of those high level skills.

3 power strike/inspired stike and you're out of discipline, and it's not like you OS people with it, you do at best 50% more damages than a normal attack. So when you have to deal with a lot of ennemies, it's not viable. Same problem for the other HL fighter skills.

 

Yeah at least sundering blow will do the job for the increase in armor the ennemies got.

Also i don't complain about the stance, i was more into the duellist stance to stack the max of single target potential with the accuracy and deflection boost.

 

Let's list the fighter skills :

 

Level 1 :

Discipline barrage = Good

Know Down = Good

 

Level 2

Stance = Decent (very good for tank stance)

Into the fray =Bad/Average at best (range too short to make it fill its purpose)

 

Level 3

Dsiciplined strikes = Very good

Tactical barrage = Okay (outclassed too much by the previous upgrade)

Mule kick = Good

Penetrating strike = Good

 

Level 4

Vigorous defense = Good

Lower their guard = Bad (range still as short, the debuff last for a too short duration)

Out of fire = Bad (same range problem, the one you will want to save will be either too far, and/or you'll be too close to a lot of ennemies, so not a good new position for the ally)

Charge = Decent (was very good before nerf)

 

Level 5

Unbending = Bad (Was very good before nerf, now cost too much for poor healing)

Guardian stance buff = Good

Mob stance = Good (the cleave stance goes up from decent to good with this)

Conqueror stance = Decent (tooltip bugged?)

 

Level 6

Refreshing Defenser = Broken (the refresh doesn't work)

Clear out = Decent

 

Level 7

Unbending shield = Bad

Unbending trunk = Bad/Average (Was OP before nerf, now cost too much for the healing done))

Power strike = Bad (Expecting a double damages hit, it actually does like 50-60% more damages than a normal attack at best, for a huge cost of 4 discipline which is way too much)

 

Level 8

Inspired discipline = Average at best (Not worth it compared to Discipline strike, it gives a boost to all stats, which means 15% more attack speed, 5 more accuracy and 15% more damages for a dps, which is a good buff, but not enough for the price it cost)

Clear the path = Okay

Clean sweep = Okay

 

Level 9

Inspired strike = Bad/Average (Same problem than powerstrike, but you get a small buff with the cost too now, but it's not very good nor exciting for your high level dps skill)

Take the hit = Bad (Its use will be when there's a lot of mobs and you can't engage them all, the problem is you're taking 50% of the allies are taking as RAW damages, making the tank collapse quite fast, something you don't want to happen when there's a lot of mobs left to deal with)

Sundering blow = Average (The armor reduction is nice, might be more worth it than before the patch, but the cost is still too high anyway, you still get outdamaged by skills that cost 1 or 2 ressources on other classes)

 

 

Also special mention at level 7 and 9 => Unbreakable/Unrelenting are good passives for a dps fighter that could die in the melee if he takes a bad focus, but in the end, a good positionning and avoiding to die is always better.

 

 

You can see he doesn't really have anything exciting, and starting at level 4 to the higher ranks, his abilities are mainly bad or decent at best, and are almost all bad at 7 and 9.

 

A dps fighter at this state, is a tanky dps, but in the end, berserker can be tanky dps who will out dps you in single and multiple targets fights, rogues will out tank with their riposte builds and out dps you, paladins outtank and outdps you with a hand in the pants because of his passives, natural tankiness + flame of devotion and also won't get controlled/mind controled at the first control spell he takes, monk outdps you by clicking on 2 buttons etc...

Err what’s your definition of exciting? I can say Barbarian ability is not exciting, Druid spells not exciting, it’s too subjective isn’t it?

 

According to your list, the fighter’s issue is on high level. Cost of high level abilities are too high, I believe it is easy to fix.

Edited June 5, 2018 by dunehunter

[Enoch]

Can't speak for PotD, but the Veteran-level digsite fight was fun, and I think appropriately challenging for a party of 3 who just made level 4.  I had done Gorecci Street already, which wasn't that tough on Veteran with solid tactics-- entering from the N., sneaking S. hugging the W. wall to initiate combat with the folks around the Corpse with the porch crowd out of sight.  (I did need to sneak into the Skelly room and disarm one of the traps to get enough XP to level Xoti to 4.)

 

No Boars on the lowest level-- 4 or 5 Panthers, 2 Wyrms, and the Young Drake.  Took some consumables (Bear Trap, Bomb, Scroll, Mouth Char, and 3 or 4 healing potions), a few Empowers, remembering to use Ed's mob stance and shield modal, and some Force of Anguish spam.  IMO, an appropriate level of challenge for an early-game boss fight at a hard-but-not-masochistic difficulty level.  (I could've probably done better had I been more assertive about using Ed's Swashy abilities.  I forget stuff like that sometimes, which is probably one reason why I'm more comfortable on Veteran than PotD.)

Edited June 5, 2018 by Enoch

[Enoch]

 

 

 

Stars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvq4LdngkD4

 

Boars do Pierce, and so do many of the combatants on Gorecci.  Vendor in the middle of Maje sells both Scale (medium with Pierce AR) and Brigandine (heavy with Pierce AR) each for $200 per, and Xoti's Armor has Pierce AR.  You can do it.  I believe in you. 

 

 

 

Aren't scale and brigandine actually weak to Piercing?  I'm almost sure brigaindine is.  I generally see crushing as the least common, especially when fighting kith.  So my top choice for each tier is usually leather, mail, and plate.

 

 

Maybe you are right.  I am going to go look.  I swear they were ok for it.

 

EDIT:  Nope, I am an idiot.  Disregard.   You are correct.  They need another Heavy armor on that vendor to help with Pierce

If you're willing to savescum a bit, sometimes the battlefield on the northern side of the island (behind the Druid) drops a Plate Armor. 

[Ganrich]

So, I just got into an ambush in Neketaka.  It was the one where you have to sneak into the bath house room and grab a satchel for the dude outside, and then deliver it to the docks.  On the way to deliver you are ambushed, and this ambush was way out of my league.  So, I kept trying and trying and trying.  It is 2 rogues, 2 mages, 2 pistol using fighter types, a priest and a Barbarian for a leader.  Those rogues and mages were a problem.  I finally got Serafen to Dominate a rogue, the rogue went after a mage.  Then he dominated the pistoleer in the back.  While Aloth Dropped the other mage.  I had Xoti cast a scroll of Pull of Eora + Scroll of Insect swarm + Shining beacon all on top of one another hitting the barb, priest, and the other pistol guy.  Eder and myself (herald) kept the melee from closing in.  It took a loong loonng time.  However, I did it, and I feel good about it.  My point in posting this?  Even fights that seem impossible are possible.  Determination is key. 

 

@Enoch - good to know.  I don't save scum, but I only had trouble with Gorecci Street, and I just came back with Aloth and wrecked those punks.  I think it is a bit hard for 3 man party, but it is 100% doable with 4, and probably fairly easy with 5. 

[dunehunter]

My strategy to Gorecci Street is let Xoti use Withdraw to block the right 3 sniper + mage. And let MC + Eder clean the left 3 enemy. Then let Xoti dies, MC and Eder leave combat to regenerate source point. Then come back to clean the rest 4 enemy.

 

2 vs 3- > 2 vs 4 is much easier than 3 vs 7 here.

 

Also I'm surprised that enemy will now use healing potions

Edited June 5, 2018 by dunehunter

[PIRI]

My strategy to Gorecci Street is let Xoti use Withdraw to block the right 3 sniper + mage. And let MC + Eder clean the left 3 enemy. Then let Xoti dies, MC and Eder leave combat to regenerate source point. Then come back to clean the rest 4 enemy.

 

2 vs 3- > 2 vs 4 is much easier than 3 vs 7 here.

 

Also I'm surprised that enemy will now use healing potions

Actually, I remember they used healing potions since launch, one of them for sure.

Edited June 5, 2018 by PIRI

[dunehunter]

 

My strategy to Gorecci Street is let Xoti use Withdraw to block the right 3 sniper + mage. And let MC + Eder clean the left 3 enemy. Then let Xoti dies, MC and Eder leave combat to regenerate source point. Then come back to clean the rest 4 enemy.

 

2 vs 3- > 2 vs 4 is much easier than 3 vs 7 here.

 

Also I'm surprised that enemy will now use healing potions

Actually, I remember they used healing potions since launch, one of them for sure.

 

 

It's just because in pre-patch, they die so fast that I never notice them using potion.