Abel

I disagree. You speak like you can predict the future and deem it so. Time are changing and have changed. All mediums have converged and all in the process of doing so. Console people understand mouse and keyboard they are not retards you know. Sure you have some who wont but fools will always be fools no matter what. What unites us all is love of videogames . If I have a choice of picking pc version of a game or console I will take console almost everytime. Its the ease of use. also if not for consoles, videogame business would be "out of business long time ago" . PC gaming is and was 95 percent pirated. To make those massive games costs money. you could never recoup that through pc sales. PC people scoff at console games or gamers but if not for them and that side for last 20 years there would be no pc games or such a rapid advance of cheap technology. There simply would not be enough revenue returns. I believe there is a market for it. Many people are simply put off by building pcs . They dont get it. Its sounds and looks cumbersome . they just want to plug and play. Why do you want to not to include them into this ? when a port would be super cheap and accessible to many many more. That would make more revenue for the makers as they can self publish and create even a better bigger game in the future ? Fail to see your logic in dismissing it like that. Dude... I really try to stay calm, really... I've read your OP thread, and i said "well, ok, why not? If PC version isn't casualised, we are just all RPGs fans". And then, i've read the thread... You accused people to do hasardous assessments, but the one you made the most of them here, is you... At first, the PC video game world was a happy and pinky one 15 years ago. We had low budget games with great concepts. Some games were cool, others where bad. That's life. Then, PC games started to be brought to consoles... Consequences: -More budget, and as for the cinema, big budget = Well graphically shaped products with NO scenario. Hollywood as something stinky, so stinky in fact that Hollywood died 20 years ago. Nowadays 80% of your so beloved high budget you highly praised in your post is about 1st Pers 3D... And that's what people who backed PE don't want to see ever in this game. -Stuff like incredible UI that make you feel so good that you just want to crush your PC with some kind of a heavy club... Thx budget. -Stuff like gameplay casualisation because of needed simplifications in order to games to be easier to handle with consoles pads. Thx consoles. The truth is i don't have anything against consoles players (it's a pb of money here). But i have a huge problem with people who argue that PC players are elitists when it's better for them than just building something deeper. You have become all you have condemned in your first post. All your posts, and even more the last i quoted are just assesments. One more assesment: what if, without the great budget you speak about we just ended to have the same budget for PC gaming today? What about nowadays RPG in this alternative world? And last thing... All people who own a PC are not robbers who made the piracy a way of life. In my case, i just do it to "test before buying". And this is only because of the way gaming industry works today: lies, false features, exploiting franchises in order to do much money with as less work as possible (Dragon Age 2?), DRM thats prevents me from just USING the game i bought, User licenses that are not user licenses (ie you bought the game, but you're not legally owner of your (their) copy), etc... I'm ok with PE on consoles after its PC release, but not with people that bring me to post such a... thing. Consoles aren't really the sole reason for games becoming simplified. More developers trying to appeal to a wider audience, an audience which doesn't want to bother with such complex systems. That wider audience just happens to play on consoles more due to them being easier to manage and easier to keep up to date. It's not a problem that's going to be solved either. The people who want less complicated systems are a majority and so publishers will want to appeal to them, more than the minority in most cases even if it means disappointing their old fans. That's why we have these kickstarters though, to allow the minority to fund something that the mainstream people might not like! Either way I agree with the sentiment that they should focus on getting the PC version out first, and consider ports later. I agree with you. I would just say that multi platforms matters widened even more the audience you speak about. And to reach all this widened multi platforms audience, compromises were needed in order to make the game run on all of them (and badly on PC). Like i said "The truth is i don't have anything against consoles players (it's a pb of money here)". This is what i meant. Console players are not pieces of crap just because they play on consoles. They become pieces of crap when they speak like "Well, we are worth this port on console. No care about the PC players and problems about console UI on PC. My own little and stinky person BEFORE anyone else." This game is about PC UI since the start. This behavior is the one thing i can't bear anymore. And it's not just about Games. You can see this behavior all around wherever you walk in the street. Plus, i must admit i'm kinda pissed when i see such things. Just because of the repetitive same words i've read for years. At first i was really more opened minded. Once more, it's a problem of money at first.

Well, you are true, and it is worth to remember this. But i guess this topic is just about dreaming, wondering, exchanging points of view and more. it's quite fun to read the people wishes, even if it's just for "the flavour".

You can't imagine how much i agree with you. I felt it was a problem to say it here, so i did not. But it's so truly true... As an example, in France, we were teached long ago that colonialists saved poor countries and poor people. And now that we have some... "problems", colonialists were just killers and robbers: one extreme or another. France is just not at peace with its history, Japanese can sometimes convince themselves that it was China who attacked them during the Sino-japanese war, and so on... I've not an extended knowledge of all that matters, but i really think that it's hard to just learn "facts" at school, in a pure cold way, and with no political matters/interests. USA is not different and has, i think, a really huge problem with this too, as it seems they learned really exagerated things (as an example, i don't know how many americans know that more than 80% of Germany casualties during WW2 were against Russia. However, just wondering, not judging). The biggest problem here seeming to be that people (in whichever country we could speak about) just "trust what people say"... I spoke with ancients... The way they learnt history was (at least) different. Indoctrination is really the right word, but, to me, it's just one more way... The first: TV. So many lies, so many things that are just "silenced"... And what gives me a shock day, after day, is just that people end to have an opinion on whatever subject they were talked to, without knowing even a few about it, just because "they said it on TV/at School..." Like Hildern said in Fallout New vegas: "The less people know about things, the more opinions they have. I'm a scientist, and am not about political matters" (or something like that). But hey, i wonder if it is really possible to speak frankly and calmly about these matters. This is really interesting to me because there are people from so many countries here that maybe i'll learn something/discover i'm wrong all along and so on... PS: Had a hard time to write this, and i expect to be misunderstood quite a bit because i miss so many words to explain me well. EDIT: To me God is not a cause, but a consequence: people who don't understand something just seek for an explanation. God has the same source as sciences. A response to needs of understanding and explaining. Your list may be true if you assume that faith was a "start point" to think about the world thousands years ago. Well, it's my opinion, and faith is not about logic (and i have a hard time to explain exactly what i meant here ). I have no problem with people who "believe", even if think that faith is an obstacle when people just try to "think", "listen", "understand in a pure logic way". But it's not really about history here, i guess.

Age of imperialism. Your understanding of the word 'colonial era' is not in line with the normal usage of the word. Or, put more bluntly, you don't know what the term means. Put even more bluntly, you're wrong. To me it seems history is not learnt the same way in every countries (never heard the word "Imperial Era" related to France or colonies histories... Or just related to the 1st and 2nd Empires (1804-1815 and 1852-1870)... I was surprised too to read that France (my country) still has colonies, when while it's true that france still has many islands, Cayenne in South America and so on, these territories are treated like "DOM TOM" which could be traduced as "extra metropolitan regions". People here are just french like any other ones (same rights and duties), and unlike in the old colonies. Strange to me too to read that colonisation started in the 1500'. Well i learnt it was before. Because of the european worldwide trading companies and their worldwide little trading colonies... Colomb went to America because, as for Vasco de Gama, they looked for new trading routes to Asia. America was just an accident on the way. Colonisation has not started with America, even if the Colomb's discovery contributed to shift the expansion. But it's true that speaking of America as THE important place in colonisation history is pointless here, because colonisation started long before and lasted long after. Asia started being colonised before, Africa after... America was no more than just one more piece of earth in the european's silly rivalry game back then. Well, a "new", "exotic" one, with just few million inhabitants, but just one more detail, and only south america seemed to be rich enough compared to trading opportunities in Asia. At least, it's the way i was teached history. A different way, and that's my point here. But no matter, as (like some said) PoE is "not" reality, but an "alternative" reality. Arcanum was great with its technology/magic feature, and i think PoE will add firearms in a nice way too. I don't think there is much to worry about, nor Obsidian added them just to make some fancy stuff. Troika is here and i feel many people will judge firearms in PoE well in place and lore friendly after release. It's hard to judge a feature on its own, without looking at the whole thing. Just having to be patient and open minded enough to not miss something that may be cool just "because". Still, i can understand the worrying of people who disliked firearms in Arcanum, but remember that firearms in PoE won't be a leading concept of the game, just one more detail in the lore. (PS: *seeing the video "the 3 musketeers".... *sigh*. Can't help it*) (EDIT: Thx PrimeJunta, i learnt some history details)

I personaly hate any kind of level scaling. I like the idea to have hard fights and some easy ones. Why? Just because i can see my character's progression, and for the sake of credibility. Level Scaling make leveling mechanic a no sense, and the world unrealistic (because the fact all opponents you meet are about the same strenght as you is totally dumb)... I like having to kill some plain rats in the middle of Fallout 2 instead of tons of deathclaws just because i "have the level". And... If the hook and the whole story are believable, tied to the main plot (at start), the dungeon crawling will be immersive (this is my only worry subject because without kind of story/varied types of challenges, it would make it a boring hack n slash to me). Level Scaling is the total opposite of immersion. It's just a ****ty crap you should throw away along with your ****ty Fallout 3 copy... Just my motivated opinion...

Yeah, it's a shame... I saw it. Trolls or people that don't know anything about the project... And yet, they voted.

The matter of consoles has been discussed many times, and Obs said "no" (thx). If console players want to pledge for a console version after the game is released on PC, feel free. It would be interesting to convey such games to new people who may love it (if Obs is able to translate the game exp on a controller, and i'm pretty sure they can't, like they said themselves). But please, don't even mention a console port as a pre-release stretch goal. Many of us just don't want to flame, and this kind of insisting purposal motivates me much more into flaming than i would want to admit...

Don't know but the poll i just saw on the page made me laugh: "Which game do you hope Pillars of Eternity is most like? Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 Call of Duty Icewind Dale 1 or 2 Planescape: Torment Temple of Elemental Evil"

Obs have clearly stated that there won't be consoles versions of PoE.

I feel Arcanum is a real deep inspiration for PoE (which is a great thing). Not as much as BGate, but even... The difference is: guns are rare things because bows are often more effectives than these one shoot-then-reload weapons. In my opinion, it's a great idea to put some of them into the game. I hope that playing the game, you'll feel it contributes to give PoE its own vibe.

I think most people use Diablo because they know 98% of the gaming population will know the reference. Totally, you hit the point A fast reference that don't need argue to be understood. I agree, IWD was in between Diablo and BG. And there were fine stories behind some places like the Severed hand. What i disliked was the never ending whole game dungeon. No variety at all. And when the game is just about killing so many monsters and about loot, i use to make this easy comparison with Diablo because everyone undestand why. (The first Diablo was awesome though). I really prefer more varied games like Planescape, Fallout 1&2, Arcanum, BGate,... The 15 lvl dungeon may be great, i'm just afraid that it could be an excuse to push the player to a boring, never ending and non sense monster bashing. Monster bashing + loot is not "adventures" for me. Just monster bashing + loot. That's why i made the comparison with Diablo and why i made my first post here. No offense. If the dungeon is intriguing, with cool story, and as varied as the Durlag Tower Stun spoke about, i actually may enjoy it. But probably less than the core game. Just my own way to have fun.

Wut? Is IWD like Diablo? The only difference between them is the active pause. I didn't like this aspect of IWD, really...

Agree. Complexity + mods = Super Console will (hopefully) save your life. (even for me the responsible for the... DA2 thing is EA... More than Bioware. We may hope that the fact that no publisher is involved with PoE will help the game to be reasonably well supported after its release.) *fingers burning because of these ****ty two letters i hate so much*

I just hope It won't be IWD like. One Folk: Here is the 2 lines scenario to give you a soooooooo subtle reason to explore it: "Ancient place. Nobody knows (and even tried to figure out). Monsters, ancient wizard, undead, grooooarrr, looooooooot" *enter the place* *hard fight* *trap* *hard fight hard fight* *trap* *hard fight hard fight hard fight hard fight hard fight hard fight hard fight hard fight hard fight* *trap trap trap trap trap* ... *3 years later* One Folk: "Oh here you again! Had you fun in this so grrrrrrreat storytelling adventure in the world's lore mysteries?" oO Just this.

Skyrim is awfull for that (amongst other things). Besides the fact that i find the items in the core game ugly/unappropriated/redundant/unvaried with just 3 weapon types and 8 armor sets (which are exclusives oO) in a game of 300+ hours lenght (for me probably 500+ with DLCs), it's leveled (beuark), and random... *enter the cave (another one that i don't know why i explore it)* *kill things (once more. Trolls here, they MUST have a chest to guard TOO, don't know why, but they must)* *open the safe (safe n°15821451: the OTHER one nobody checked yet in past 250 years) *poor loot: you didn't find the boots of XXXX armor that you NEEDED in order to just USE your base armor ability (wich depends on wearing an UNIFIED armor set)* *reload* ... *3/4 hours later: the boots! well, fed up, lets play angry bird* Agree with you, some part of random, but hand placed is great for the major part.

It's true Stun, even if i have no such high expectations. More fleshed out? I guess, more fleshed out at such a point? not sure. @Wicelo: I would add that Baldur's gate 2 used and reused environments and textures, and sprites... massively (Blind eye caves? interiors? Illithid's caves? Sewers? etc). The areas were not very fleshed out too. I you want to see a IE game with so astounding areas that i take it for for a reference today, then try Icewind Dale 1. The Severed hand, as an example, is so beautiful and detailed (each time i'm stuned and i keep 30 minutes detailing the objects and textures on the scenery)... Baldur's gate 2 was far from this result... I guess PoE is more IWD1 like than BG2 like (according to the impressive trailer). EDIT: Oh, and like someone said: try to read Update 66 (I guess). Very informative... EDIT 2: It's UPDATE 67...

I really don't like ToB: it's just a linear and brutal hack n slash. I played it just... once . But something like the EE of the witcher 1, yes... But it may be hard and long to patch all the core game instead of adding another storyline along the main plot. I guess we have to be patient for at least 6 months before having any details.

That's about all I have to say to that comment. I think you're mixing opinion with fact. You don't like TB, and that's fine, but having played the Xcom-enemy unknown, I thought it was very enjoyable, tense and tactical. That's my opinion.I'm fine with RTwP though. I get to have my cake and eat it with T:ToN and PoE. I'm ok with this. I felt this remake was great, even if not perfect. Many options were lacking to make the game longer/ more difficult. But it was beautiful, and the most important, TB was quite well designed. There was more strategy and less "luck" because of the area design itself. I enjoyed it, but the game is too short compared to the original and the options available when you finished the game should have been there since the start. Some mechanics are simplified and "under control" though, bad point. And the idea that twice a month you have ALWAYS 2 aliens raids at the same time was boring. Too scripted and artificial in some ways, and though, unrealistic in many others. About TB vs RTwP, i like the 2. Maybe better the RTwP, but it's a matter of game design. Some games are better with TB, others with RTwP. I'm glad Eternity is RTwP because most strategy games are TB, and it's a refreshing variation on the theme. PS: Does someone know where i could find mods to make the Fireaxis XCOM more in the first XCOM flavour? Didn't find anything interesting on the nexus :s Thx. PS2: maybe someone pointed this already, but i think Inxile's Torment is now TB.

The only thing i have to say about that is that i prefer parties to have to be balanced rather than viable with 6 same-class characters, or whatever party you gather. In BG, it was interesting that you had to balance your party (wizards/fighters/healers/buffers/thieves... Even more in IWD). If the game is about the same difficulty with 6 rogues or 6 wizards than with a well balanced party you spent time to think about, it's quite a pity. All party types/all characters builds should not be about the same efficiency just because of "the sake of "freedom"". Something i read about J.Sawyer made me think about this matter. But it may be pointless. IMO.

"Cette vidéo n'est pas disponible dans votre pays" First time i ever see this. "This video is not available in your country"

I don't specifically recall any companion bard mods, but you should always check out the mods selection in in those late playthroughs, its quite extensive. I think there is one from french community. A really really bad female bard with really low abilities scores, but really fun to play. My Balrdur's Gate trilogy install is already well bugged with my 25 mods installed, i try to limit the number of mods. But you're true. I guess i'll try to have a deeper look the one day i restart from scratch. Must be some cool NPCs to pick.

Really, there is no problem at all. Your posts are interesting. It's my english at fault here . And yes, i really need someone to explain me things when i don't understand them. Even more if i believed i understood them and i missed the point. So, great thanks for your patience with me I agree with pretty much all you said. It may be trivial or seems out of context to some people, but i need the mechanics to be "believable", because when i play, i don't want to see the mechanics, but the world and how it runs. It's about immersion. I think mechanics have to be part of the lore, and J.Sawyer said it i think. Hope that there will be some things to explain all this stuff in a more immersive way at the release. @dashal: I know that expert mode allow characters to die instead of just being maimed (thankfully). But about Stamina mechanic, i've no idea. It may be useful though.

And pick pockets... But that's true, bards in BG are underpowered. However, in my current playthroungh, i wanted to try Haerdalis but i've kind of a problem with him. It's not about his Con, but about his personality. I'm not at ease with him. He's the only companion I've never really played with. And there is no other bard to try.

I've read somewhere that all companions were to be found in the first half of the game (unlike Alora or Skye in BG 1). If there is a PE II, it would be great to go on adventuring with the same party.

Well, not to be snide or anything, but that's kind of what the pause function is for. If you only need to adjust what one person is doing at a given moment, you probably don't need to pause. If you need to change what everyone's doing, you probably do, so everyone's not taking like 7 swords to the face just while you're trying to make sure your party has their orders straight. The mild AI would be useful in handling things so that you don't have to pause more often than you actually have to pause. You know, like "Oh no, 4 of my party members have killed their target and are now just standing around not making ANY good use of their time. I'll need to issue commands to all 4 of them, so I'd better pause again." That sort of thing. The truth is that i really use the pause too much . How to explain you what i meant? (...) Playing baldur's gate, i sometimes stop my wizards incants in order to make them do something else because i'm not sure if they finished to cast their spells (so it's a mistake). Not often, but sometimes, i don't pay enough attention. When you had a 4/10 time incantation spell, you had to wait 6/10 of the round for your caster to be able to cast another one. If i've well understood, no rounds in PE, so, basically, you can cast another spell at the exact time you finished to cast the first. What i mean, is that in a six party members, i may just forget some of my casters: all of them can't cast their 2nd spell at the exact same time, depending of the incantion time of the first one (while in BGate, the time was the same for everyone: start of a new round. made it more difficult to forget). I generally play with 6 spell casters (wizards/bards/priests/paladins and so on). And about the AI, what i said is that i don't trust the AI enough to cast the right spell if it happens that i forget to micro manage one of my caster: all spells of all of my 6 party members somewhat complete others ones in a general battle plan (good or bad one, no matter). So not a problem of misuse of the active pause, i really use it too much already (the game becomes kind of photo shot). It's just that sometimes i "miss" something in the IE games, even if the "start of a new round" mechanic should help me not to. Without this, even harder in PE. That's why in my own personal case, i don't need a fancy companion IA. I hope i could make it clear, but i'm not sure. It's sometimes really hard for me to explain things EDIT: and i agree with you Silent Hunter. This kind of AI is ok and may be useful if well done.