Abel

Quite agree with rjshae and Karkarov. My own list: 5M: The most important to me: MORE COMPANIONS 5,5M: more areas to travel to/wildernesses areas, well blended into the core game >>> NOT in further add on. 6M: EVEN MORE companions in the fashion Karkarov described 6,5M: More non combat-oriented side quests, slightly improved world size and improved Roleplay (i love huge worlds, but i know it's not a 15M game) 7M: More immersive mechanics like rjshae described (in the scope of what is possible). Weather, and few more J.Bell awesome work. The 4M stretch goal was already about even more polishing. But the budget must be very hard to manage... In my opinion, the trailer show a game that is far better (visually) polished than i ever could imagine. In my opinion, no matter the release date. Legends of Eisenwald is in early beta since 15 months, and i guess, at least 1 year to go (initial release date was April 2013). Still the game is awesome.

What, you're afraid your female warrior doesn't comform to the modern western criteria for physical attractiveness? Whenever you're representing a person's capabilities with just six attributes, those attributes by necessity represent rather high-level concepts. Strength as an attribute refers to more than just raw physical strength. It also represents your skill of applying your physical strength in an optimal manner so that you can intuitively take advantage of such concepts as leverage and momentum, even if you don't understand or be aware of those things at an intellectual level. It represents your skill in coordinating your body as a whole so you get the most out of it and can use your physical strengh in a manner that suits your needs (explosively, for example). And so on. Attributes are abstractions. If two characters have the same value for strength it doesn't mean they have the same amount of muscles. It just means that they are, on average, equally good at applying strength and generating and manipulating physical force. They don't have to use strength in the same manner; one of them might excel at "brute strength", the other at "smart strength". Of course, anyone with max strength is going to be rather well built. But not necessarily a mountain of meat. Pretty much exactly what i meant friend :=). i use to figure out which "kind of strenght" is more suited to the character i play. A big barbarian with 18 strenght is very brute force in most case for me, while a 18 strengh female-with-no-male-hormones-that-shift-muscular-power is more about technicity. Just examples, the male orc barbarian may be a swift guy too. That's why i think differents attributes influencing damages may be a good idea. Strenght+Intellect, or dex, or whatever. Finally, sorry if i can't make all that clear. English is definitively not my native language, maybe the 3rd, at best...

I'm not sure to understand what all the debate is about, but just one thing that i never liked in D&D. When i play a fighter-like female character i just can't think about giving her 18 strenght... Kind of weird to imagine a female more body builded than Hulk (scary thing!). I've always figured out that strengh (in that case) was kind of strenght + Dexterity + martial proficiency. Because all these made you use your weapon in a more efficient way. It's like when you play tennis. If you have the wrong gesture, you can hit the ball as hard as you can, it won't go as fast as if you put less strenght with the right movement... plus just hitting it stubbornely with no care should harm your shoulder.

This makes me feel that if the "6 seconds round" in BG was quite annoying sometimes when you didn't understood the rules well, it was great too because you had to worry about casting a spell with your wizard only once in the next 6 seconds. In PE, it may be hard to pick each caster at the exact moment the finished their incant to make them perform another. But still, this system is much more "reactive" and "dynamic", even if i don't trust the AI enough to let it manage these subtilties.

Yes it makes sense, thanks. But to understand well all the stuff, i guess we have to be patient. On a very personal note, i love priests in BGate. I hope the PE version, if not the same, will be as interesting as the BG version with bunch of "usefull but not so much" spells that allow you many differents way to approach the priest's gameplay. (well, i want 3 possible priests companions too, but i keep this for my own sweet dreams :D)

See, it's things like that that make me strongly feel like you're still misunderstanding some aspect of the design. I'm not trying to be hostile here, I just really believe your feelings against the stamina regen are at least partially in response to a mistaken idea of the whole design. Your health requires you to "go back during your journey because of the wounds/fatigue of your party." At least the wounds part. As for the fatigue, simple "Oh, we were sprinting and exerting ourselves, and now we're not" fatigue does actually "regenerate" in real life. You rest for a bit, and it goes away. You don't have to go back to an inn just because you sprinted a bit, or fought some orcs/bandits. That's what's being represented by "Stamina" in PoE's design. As for long-term fatigue? They haven't really said anything about that, I don't think. It could very well be an issue. And, in that regard, I do like Osvir's idea of lowering your Stamina cap (so that it stops at 90% of your total instead of 100, etc.). Maybe Stamina-restoring abilities, in-combat, could actually still push it back up to 100, if only temporarily? That would even be pretty cool. I've not understood "all" you said, but what i understood makes sense. It's true that it would be strange that, just at the exit of the inn, after a well deserved rest, you encounter some orchish things, fight, and then, find yourself with low stamina that leads you to go once more in the inn to rest. AGAIN :D. This is NOT more realistic at all. I realize where i've mistaken, thanks. Hum... Thinking of it, i may have though stamina is just like "fatigue", but i think the 2 mechanics should be separated. Reading you, stamina seems to be more something like "for how amount of time could i bear the suffering before being knocked down?". Not "I've exhausted all my will to fight for the time. Let's take a stop to rest". In the IE games it was kind of weird that characters could fight as efficiently with 1 HP out of 150 as when they had 150/150 HP. But still, when one's life is in great danger, one is aware of all. I can't figure out the real "thing" behind stamina. I see the game mechanics, but not really the immersive reason behind it. What is its true interest beyond just "well, your character is not really at his end, you could travel further today if you wish so". (I really think that if in a RPG you just see the game mechanic and nothing else, then, this game mechanic has to be reworked) Maybe a slower stamina regeneration that can only go up to 90% of the stamina you had before a fight is a better idea. But what is stamina? In french it's "endurance". What is the biological mechanic stamina tends to traduce into gameplay mechanics? Is Stamina a well deserved name for this particular system? All of this makes me even more confused about it. I'm not sure my post is undestandable or if i traduced correctly my feelings, but i hope so. Pexei: "this entire discussion here is more conceptual than anything " That's all of the fun here friend :D. It's true i've always been kind of hardcore gamer. But really not the worse ever. I'm ok with hardcore only if it has some real usefullness into immersion matter, not just for the hardcore sake. And i become hardcore when i see something that is immersion breaking with no real purpose beyond "let's add a mechanic just for the greater good of adding unrealistic mechanic". The worse thing ever in RPGs is crafting... Already spoke about it. Arcanum >>> the best i've seen, Skyrim >>> The worse.

For my part, i just don't like the idea. I don't mean my point of view is the right one As an example, for me, what is not immersive is that you don't have to go back during your journey because of the wounds/fatigue of your party. For you, having to do so is punishment, for me it's just well deserved pauses for my living things in my party between 2 hack n slash times. I don't see this as a punishment, but as something every living creature should do. I played on a NWN2 persistant RP server where i nearly never drawn my weapon out in one year (only one fight, and it was kind of "paladin's suicide for the greater good"), and where the only way to gain xp was Roleplay (no xp for monsters). One year >>> lvl 15. And that was great. It was a very very hardcore roleplay server because having a character who survived the Inquisition/political matters for a so long time was rare: many characters were just "killed" by DMs. One error, one wrong word >>> Death and no resurection. Players here didn't saw this as a punishment because the DMs and Roleplay quality was very high. But some would. It's a matter of "how do we see Roleplay?" There is no good and bad answer. It was a great time for me roleplaying. As an example of how it could be fun (and not just like punishment), i can say than after 1 year, as the Triad's temple high paladine, my character finally could throw away the murderous Inquisition and bring on the throne someone very fond of Torm... Once more, it's a matter of taste. I'm just really surprised because i've imagined there was more hardcore Rolists here. But still, i really don't like the idea. No game can fulfill everyone expectations on all subjects. So, no problem, i'll bear it and try to focuse on the fun this system should bring as a counterpart.

I disagree. You speak like you can predict the future and deem it so. Time are changing and have changed. All mediums have converged and all in the process of doing so. Console people understand mouse and keyboard they are not retards you know. Sure you have some who wont but fools will always be fools no matter what. What unites us all is love of videogames . If I have a choice of picking pc version of a game or console I will take console almost everytime. Its the ease of use. also if not for consoles, videogame business would be "out of business long time ago" . PC gaming is and was 95 percent pirated. To make those massive games costs money. you could never recoup that through pc sales. PC people scoff at console games or gamers but if not for them and that side for last 20 years there would be no pc games or such a rapid advance of cheap technology. There simply would not be enough revenue returns. I believe there is a market for it. Many people are simply put off by building pcs . They dont get it. Its sounds and looks cumbersome . they just want to plug and play. Why do you want to not to include them into this ? when a port would be super cheap and accessible to many many more. That would make more revenue for the makers as they can self publish and create even a better bigger game in the future ? Fail to see your logic in dismissing it like that. Dude... I really try to stay calm, really... I've read your OP thread, and i said "well, ok, why not? If PC version isn't casualised, we are just all RPGs fans". And then, i've read the thread... You accused people to do hasardous assessments, but the one you made the most of them here, is you... At first, the PC video game world was a happy and pinky one 15 years ago. We had low budget games with great concepts. Some games were cool, others where bad. That's life. Then, PC games started to be brought to consoles... Consequences: -More budget, and as for the cinema, big budget = Well graphically shaped products with NO scenario. Hollywood as something stinky, so stinky in fact that Hollywood died 20 years ago. Nowadays 80% of your so beloved high budget you highly praised in your post is about 1st Pers 3D... And that's what people who backed PE don't want to see ever in this game. -Stuff like incredible UI that make you feel so good that you just want to crush your PC with some kind of a heavy club... Thx budget. -Stuff like gameplay casualisation because of needed simplifications in order to games to be easier to handle with consoles pads. Thx consoles. The truth is i don't have anything against consoles players (it's a pb of money here). But i have a huge problem with people who argue that PC players are elitists when it's better for them than just building something deeper. You have become all you have condemned in your first post. All your posts, and even more the last i quoted are just assesments. One more assesment: what if, without the great budget you speak about we just ended to have the same budget for PC gaming today? What about nowadays RPG in this alternative world? And last thing... All people who own a PC are not robbers who made the piracy a way of life. In my case, i just do it to "test before buying". And this is only because of the way gaming industry works today: lies, false features, exploiting franchises in order to do much money with as less work as possible (Dragon Age 2?), DRM thats prevents me from just USING the game i bought, User licenses that are not user licenses (ie you bought the game, but you're not legally owner of your (their) copy), etc... I'm ok with PE on consoles after its PC release, but not with people that bring me to post such a... thing.

So you would be against giving people a chance to work through a phobia and lead full, enriching lives? Pretty harsh, bro. *delete the gif in the quote* Well, i'm not arachnophobic, but it's quite mean of you... About console, i agree. I currently play BGate, which is heavily moded. And i have some weird bugs that make my game CTD in some conversations or scripted events. Without the console and things like "MoveToArea" i would not have been able to play. And i can't play the core game anymore. I believe PE may be modded in the future, so console commands is just a must.

i've read all the topic, and i laughed a lot. Too many times to use "quote". Some guys here have some great humor sense Some reactions in disorder... 1) I've read an interview of C.Avellone, explaining how he was delightful not creating one more ****ty game for consoles, as controllers have a deep impact, even on the core game design... Not sure of what he meant here, but whatever... I'm not a game designer. 2) I'm more than fed up since many years of these ****ty UI all RPG have. I play RPG since nearly 20 years, and i barely play only RPGs. Skyrim, without SkyUI mod is just unbearable, as for New vegas and its INFINITE ITEM LIST THAT I HAVE TO SCROLL ALL ALONG!!!!! Or the "press E button to open the box" (instead of just click with the mouse) thing. I won't even speak about Fallout 3 that is just (for me) a big **** to the 2 first games of the series and that initiated the New Vegas's UI. I just can't bear it anymore. I'm really open minded, but, i can't bear it anymore. I've a 32'' TV as a PC screen, and yes, i play on my desk. For many reasons, i don't use my PC controller. If Obs had stated during the kickstarter campaign that PE would handle controllers, i'm pretty sure people would not have pledged even the half of the 4M they pledged. Controllers friendly UI is one the 2 main reasons why i just don't play my Skyrim or my New Vegas so much nowadays. 3) Like someone said, just use the best tools you have. Want to play car race? try a controller. Want to play RPG? Just use a mouse... 4) EternalGamer, it seems that, like others pointed, you didn't understood some things. Not a TB but RTwP, RPG game with text even more than strategic game, HUGE amount of work to code and designs 2 UI (controller/Mouse+Keyboard) when the PE budget is VERY limited, people complain about controllers ruining their game experience (nothing more, nothing less, and Sensuki explained it well), you will hardly find anybody else who owns Steams' shares here. 5) Did i say i can't bear controllers stuff anymore?

This was a much tinier party if i remember well. So it was easier for the AI i guess. Whatever. In my own case i just never use the AI if i have the choice I tried using it. It's not just a passionnate assessment. I just dislike it because it can't be as reactive as a human can, whatever the number of configurable options are. Anyway, i hope you will find a way to satisfy your tastes in PoE as well.

But is that how they were designed or is that reverse engineering? Just because they're different, doesn't mean they started out the same and ended up different. I guess the true point of Stun was more like "well, it's a quote, this guy said something, but it's kind of political manners because we don't learn much with it". Interesting to see how he proceed, but it's true that it's hard to figure out anything with just that. I'm glad i'm not the only to be lost here. Finally my true point was about the spell uses. It's not clear how wizards manage them in comparison with priests... (ie spells/day, spells/grimoire, spell levels, x level spell/grimoire/wizard level, and so on...). J.Sawyer said wizards have much more spells, but is it about the number of spells in the game or the number of spells they can cast before needing to rest? But no complain here. We know MUCH more about Eternity than we would if there was a publisher involved.

Yeah, agree. That's why i voted yes to the poll about more stretch goals. I really don't want to hire any companion in the adventure hall while having some choices to gather different style of parties through various differents playthrough.

Well yes, it becomes a strategy combat and all that, but I prefer to have the feeling that I have someone to help me, not just some other goon that I take full control off. But I guess our views aren't very compatible, heh. NWN2 would be the closest, it seems. Well, it's just that in my opinion, what was great in the IE games was that you could made all your party members complete each others capability. As an exemple, with 6 characters, (2 wizards, one druid, one priest, 2 fighters), you encounter 6 tough guys. With one wizard, you could cast "great curse" to make their saving rolls harders, thing like "cantique" (in french) with the priest to lower even more their Saving rolls and improve yours, the 1st lvl spell "curse" (i guess) with the druid to lower by 2 the saving rolls of one ennemy (the thougher, no saves allowed against this spell), while your 2nd wizard used his sling for 1 attack. When the "great curse" incant was nearly finished, the wizard with the sling could start casting "chaos" to all these guys while the 2 fighters kept occupied some of the opponents to protect your casters... Done, master combo... This kind of strategy is only allowed is you can control each of your party members and micro manage them. That's why i didn't like the way i had to play in games like NWN2... I often play with at least 3 or 4 priests in Baldur's gate. And i want more companions in PoE to have such choices opened (or 4 wizards, and so on) But you're true. It's a matter of tastes. There is not a better way to play. The only thing important is the fun. I feel lucky here.

Sounds great. I'm not sure of the usefullness in a game such as PoE, but the idea is really interesting in a nwn persistant world. Anyway, i would be surprised if such a feature is integrated to the game. That would mean Obs is going much further than i expected.

Thanks for the details. I'm sure now i've well understood all the matter. Well, i've no real problem with stamina regeneration in most games. In Skyrim, as an example, stamina allows you to run faster, perform powerfull attacks and so on. While your are out of breath, you have to rest few seconds in order to the stamina regenerates. But here, stamina is something wich is tied to damages you take. If i 've understood well, when you are hurt, you take stamina damages, and 25% of the stamina damages become health damages (4/1). So, if stamina regenerates (even if health don't), it's kind of a non Roleplay way to cure part of the damages you took. I've underlined it, my problem, at first, is the non logical/Roleplay matter. If stamina is about to regenerates, that's ok, but then, stamina should not be linked to damages you took. Because it seems to be stuff you may found in casu modern RPGs even Skyrim did not brought. EDIT: agree with you Osvir. I thought the same way.

I currently play through (once more) all the Baldur's gate saga with Baldur's gate trilogy (a mod) and some great mods (like Grey Clan or Secret of Bonehill). Xan is emprisonned in Mulahey's lair, in the Nashkel mines's last level. He's in a little room in the cave. Maybe it's the reason some missed him (even it's strange to not explore the entire place). Xan was great because he was a neutral enchanter. Good addition to Edwin in an evil party, or Dynaheir in a good one. And his moon's sword were fancy and gave him 2 AC besides some other cool stuff. I saw too that you could roll you party members in some of the adventurers hall during the game. Kind of mercenaries that you must pay. Great idea for people that like to roll their entire party. In my point of view, yet, i really prefer companions with story and background (Aerie, Dakk'on, ...)

In games like Baldur's Gate and stuff, i just totally disable the AI because i, by far, prefer full micro management. But, even, the pathfinding was absolutely awfull. Like "Hey dude, stop running the wrong way every time i beg you to go here! piece of crap!" As for never2, i've always heard people saying that the game was really badly scripted, with stuff like copy/paste from never1. People who tried to make some persistent RP world had, as an example, terrible problems with the factions scripts. Was not so fun at all to see guards suddently deciding to kill every player with no real reason during a RP event managed by the DM (i saw that problem on various servers which were managed by true programmers. They had to re-write parts of the game scripts in order to stop these bugs)... Well the game ran pretty well in solo mode. Still i've had some of my greatest moments of Roleplay on such persistent Roleplay servers. Fallout 1 and 2 where overbugged, and so on :D. Well kind of nostalgia. All this said in order to explain that personnally, i don't need some fancy stuff. I think no AI can replace human brain in strategical matters.

Happy Holidays. Death to crunch.

I'm REALLY surprised by the poll results... I voted no regeneration AT ALL. Regeneration is kind of a feature we can find in many casu "let's make sure it is not possible for the player to lose" games. I would be really disappointed if Eternity turned to use ways to "make the player's life easier" that are not Roleplay at all. It's the same for me as the quests markers problem. Want regeneration? Sleep for a while (for just stamina regen), hire more priests (that's one of the reason i want more companions: to have choices gathering your party), brew some potions with alchemy, pay a healer, or just go back home and put your trip on a stop for a while... Reminds me i was afraid reading J.Sawyer explaining that the game is designed to make sure the player has not to stop his trip because of the "not enough priests in the party" thing...

I'm pretty sure there will not be such a feature in Project Eternity, which is not a AAA game with 50M as a budget.

Yeah, like i said, Fargo wrote a long update about the Wasteland 2 early beta and its limits. Among the limits, the linearity was well placed. He said "not representative of the final game" because very few places are included in the beta while it's possible to play through whole quests. Legends of Eisenwald is a 80K project too, and what is fun is that they developped their own engine before the kickstarter. They're just crazy. But i play the game and it's won-der-ful, despite its 15 months' early beta. Kind of Heroes of Might and Magic like but much more scenarized and much more middle age's style. Conquistadors looks great, i just looked at it. Torment is a great project too (one more!). Nowadays, the future of kickstarter seems to be in the balance. If these games turn to be great, it's good for the future. And about the subject of this thread, my main problem is that i do not really understand all the design features for combat J.Sawyer presented in the article. My english is not good enough to figure out the details about wizard's spells use. I just understood he'll use a grimoire. (kind of strange to find a french word in there)

The 2 trolls you showed are greats trolls in my opinion. I've lived with the Warhammer version for years, and the water version is quite cool too. But i don't know why, i feel these kinds of trolls would be out of place in PE. Thanks to the poll, i realized that PE trolls are among my prefered versions of this creature. BG/IWD ones are just awfull... Only the never1's one is worse... We are just used to these trolls in games we love. But really, they're not so... well it's just a question of design taste. Furthermore, i don't understand such insistance. It's ok to say "i like/dislike them", but is it really such a big deal?

Great screenshots. Not agree with all the ideas for Eternity, but once more, not really possible to judge an isolated feature. Need to see the whole to make me an idea. And i feel that i could like all the stuff at the end. Not used to is not like bad. I just try to be open minded so i can appreciate new stuff with no pre made ideas. Same thing for Wasteland 2. I saw some beta walkthrough on the net. It's early beta and it's true the game doesn't seem as polished as Eternity at first sight. And the inventory interface reminds me the SkyUI mod interface for Skyrim (this mod is helpfull, yeah). So, not so good. I've some problems too with animations and stuff. BUT... This is early beta, and even... I really want to play Wasteland. Seems really fun, and interesting in so many ways... And maybe bigger than Eternity. I feel that wasteland and Eternity didn't have the same development priorities. That's all. Furthermore, i've never hoped a full polished game with 3M as a dev budget. Fargo said the beta would be quite linear and stuff... Well, i should Say Mister Fargo. Great great guy. As for others so tiny teams with so ambitious projects... Like Aterdux with its "Legends of Eisenwald" and their endless early beta. But nevermind! It's worth a look. All this stuff is about love, not war.

I like the way you calmly try to explain your feelings where it's obvious you feel alone here. It's some kind of courage, and i appreciate it (really). The way you think is somehow interesting to me. So, you're ok with isometric, reactivity, great story, RTwP and all this stuff. hum... I don't understand what you dislike. All this is the very core of PE since the very start. The reading? but we all knew that the reading was important here because the game is not voiced (and no one here want it to be). Plus i've read that Torment will have EVEN MORE reading, hugely more... Like Planescape. The limited number of foreign translations? Well i feel lucky for the french one. My english is not good enough to be able to really taste subtilties of the language. The IE feeling of the game that make you feel you will just have one more playthrough of BG while you just can't play it anymore? yeah, hard for me to play it again too. Too much thousands hours on it since 15 years. Plus it is not a copy. BG was not perfect, and Obs try to create kind of IE experience, not a brand new IE game. Well, i wonder... have you read interviews and stuff? It's true that the feeling is very BG, but it's very PE too. Maybe you will be surprised experiencing the game later. EDIT: Oh, and i'm not sure that backers would be happy if Obs was to ship Eternity like a "test" for future developments... Besides, the franchise would be quite untrustful, as the dev Studio.